The NEW Warlock Issues and Concerns Thread

Actually I think I have one issue. If warlocks are supposed to be masters of the AE then they need their AEs to actually hit. Unfortunately on AE encounters typically the only debuff helping you out on the adds and only within the one encounter is going to be your AE debuff. This resists and is also not a huge amount. If it's multiple non-linked encounters it's even worse, the adds will have just about no debuffs on them. When I get multiple encounters it's pretty typical to have multiple cataclysm resists and such, and this rather defeats much of the purpose of casting them in the first place.

My suggestion would be to give warlocks some sort of PBAE noxious debuff. This could replace curse of luclin. My personal idea would be an anchored noxious debuff that pulses around an anchor mob like netherealm. You could also just put a debuff component on netherealm itself. You could make AE spells much harder to resist too, but I think the other suggestions are more fun.

Ragadagh@Antonia Bayle wrote:

I'm curious to know what your disruption is at. Even in VP vs dark orange mobs, I generally sit around a 98% hit-rate.

Not to say that 2% dosn't hurt, because it does. But it's not huge.

Even against yellows at 28 I also have a pretty decent hit rate fwiw. I will say that the freeze spell I have gets resisted almost every time - maybe because I got it a bajillion levels ago, but all my poison and diseased based spells usually hit. I think this has something to do with my casting order maybe - usually I start out with absolution, since it takes forever and it's master II, so I can cast it while the mob is standing around looking dumb instead of waiting until I'm being beat on to try and get that spell off. This sometimes hits a solo mob for over 1k, which I would like to think isn't bad at 27/28 (anyone care to comment on that?) Then, my next spell is the breath line debuff - so my first spell is master ii so it is obviously going to hit more, then I follow with a debuff which probably helps all my other spells (except the freeze one) hit. I know in my STA line I am putting 32 points total 8 are going (or, have already went into) the advancement that increases disruption. Also, I have nearly a full set of MC that I made that adds to wis as well as int. In the coercer forum they seem to think that wis not only increases your ability to resist spells, but also your ability to land them - especially charms. The only thing I can find in my little booklet is the wis helps your resist, not increases your chances of hitting, but If somebody knows could you please verify?

As far as coercers having higher dps - I was a coercer for a while, and according to ~several~ forums, coercers are hands down no contest the best end-game soloers. Not necessarily because of higher dps, but their ability to have complete control of the situation and chain stun. So I don't know that they have high dps per say (maybe they do, I'm saying I don't know) - but I think most of the "hype" I've heard is their centered around their solo ability.

Another thing I noticed - and I could just be being paranoid - but it seems like if my disruption is not maxed (say, right after I level) I will get resisted more on the same mobs, even though my disruption is technically higher. ie. If my disruption is say 110 out of 110 I'll hit a lot, but if it's 115 out of 120 (know the numbers aren't right - but just as an example) I'll miss more on the ~same~ mobs. It's as if having the skill maxed is worth more than the number itself (because even if I'm not maxed at 115, it's still a higher number than 110 which was max for the previous level). As I said, maybe it just seems that way to me, but I'm curious to know if anyone else has noticed - maybe my doctor gave me the wrong pills.

True story - the first time I cast absolution, the spell started - I noticed how slow the progress bar was going, so I went out to the mall with some friends, then went and caught a movie, then found a cure for the common cold and ran for president, and then when I got back home the spell was just about to finish and when it did I was like ZOMG! thats really a cool spell!

I really do like that spell, but it takes a reaaaaaally long time to cast. Not saying it's broken - I suppose it should take that long since it's (or at least it seems like ) one of our more damaging aoe's. Anyway has anyone noticed the above on the resists?
And I play on a pvp server, but I do so more for the excitment that at any moment I might get ganked. I still enjoy the pve aspect more, but I enjoy the combination of both rather than any one by itself - if they fix the pve side and make us the dealers of death we're supposed to be, I'll be happy. I will agree though that most "fights" between me and a scout last roughly 5 seconds, if that.

Beyond your group buff that buffs spellcasting skills, you likely won't find any gear with decent amounts of disruption before your in your 60's/70's. Best bet during that time is to upgrade your spells(A3 or higher) and increase your INT as high as you can.
Your cap for INT is your level x 15 plus 20. Diminishing returns (The point where it becomes less benefitial for you) kicks in around 70% to 80% of that amount.

I believe there is an issue with the Boon of the Dark / Boon of Solitude spell line. A lot of this might be missinformation but it seems correct.

1) Doesn't stack with the Pali Amends buffs. Everything I've ever read says not only doesn't it stack, but it cancels the other out too. I'm scared to cast it on a MT Pali, even if I'm not the one who has the Amends buff. And if I have Amends I'm scared to cast the buff on someone else worried that it is going to mess up the hate transfer of Amends.

2) I don't believe it stacks with the Wiz version of this buff (or other Warlocks). Either the buff doesn't land, it does but doesn't do any thing, or they cancel eachother out and nothing happens. Given the tiny hate transfer it does, this really shouldn't be.


Fendaria

We had spells that generated Nill Crystals before and thankfully the need for the crystals was removed.

However now I have a bunch of spells used to generate crystals and now never get cast. I don't know what to do with them but they are basically worthless.

Part of me is worried someone is looking at them thinking we have utility we don't. Another part of me is worried a dev is going to look at the spells and 'boost' them so we have utility we don't want (with the potential we no longer are a DPS focused class).

Much of me also favors just scrapping the spells alltogether so I won't need to take up hotbar space with spells I never cast.


Fendaria

Zahne@Mistmoore wrote:

Well first if you're reading that off ACT it's inflated since a DoT resist counts as one resist but a DoT hit counts as five, six, whatever many hits. But yeah you're right, on a single mob when debuffs go in it's not bad at all. Without debuffs it's a whole different story, depending on the zone too, like in SoH if the brig fell asleep it's not uncommon for me to see two, three resists in a row.

In VP additionally the only things you're likely AEing are the Druushk books (heroic) and those three mob hatchling things that I believe are like level 80 even, but either way they're just single ups.

It'd be different if you had linked orange epics (are there any of those in instances?), and much worse when you have unlinked epics. If you pull multiple trash mobs in SoH for instance my master cataclysm seems to resist against the adds more than it hits.

My general thinking anyway regardless of resists is it'd be peachy keen to be able to mit debuff adds in multiple encounters even as that's sorta supposed to be the warlock's show. It would potentially let them add some oomf to all AEs on the raid too, which would actually be some utility.

EDIT: Oh yeah sisters, I'll have to go back and double check on that.

Ragadagh@Antonia Bayle wrote:

Absolutely, when I say I have a 98% hit-rate I factor that in. Technically the data *is* correct, although misleading.

That DOT might hit for 10k total damage, but technically there's only one resist check that takes place. So if I land the DOT? It's hitting __ times guarenteed.

Once it's ticking, other stats/debuffs effect the damage volume each tick is hitting for.


Personally I sit at a little over 600 Disruption raid-buffed. That's likely why my resists are pretty low in general.

Obviously the data is correct according to how many resists actually occurred, but we don't care about resists per ticks of spell damage, we care about resists per amount of actual casts. As far as I can tell Obsidian Chaos doesn't resist either so you're diluting your number of cast spells by about half if you included that too. There's a couple other wonky ones that don't resist or are treated differently, etc, I dunno, probably not new information but just so we're on the same page.

Looking back over my last Sisters fight, I actually had 100% hit rate against ire and my resist rate on ACT (so actually more resists) was 92%. The simple reason is that malevolence isn't getting spiked with debuffs until ire is dead. On my latest run through the first wing of VP my main sources of resists were nexona adds, druushk adds, and the tome encounters due to lack of debuffing in all three cases. The former two really don't matter because it's just me getting on them early, but there are only a handful of ways to AE debuff things such as a linked orange epic (Malevolence) or a smaller group of orange heroics (druushk books).

I'm not talking about single target orange mobs. On those it is rare to see a resist once debuffs are in. I'm talking about AE encounters against orange mobs. Granted these are semi-rare in this expansion unless you're pulling multiple epic trash, but hopefully next expansion we'll see more of them and this resist rate will be more of an issue. It's obviously not a top issue but I think some sort of PBAE debuffing would be cool and theme-fitting for a warlock.

I actually tried to address the issues with two of our worst spells, the dissolve and curse of luclin lines, at Fan Faire.

I was basically told that the tank rebalancing was coming first, and that they would then look over the rest of the classes. A rather distant unofficial timeframe was given, so don't expect anything for a while.

(opps wrong thread)

Hellswrath@Blackburrow wrote:

Yep, top priority right now is Tank balance. It's pretty long overdue.

Knowing they plan on re-introducing the multi-mob encounter with the next expansion, I'm sure it's a smart bet to wait and see what new problems arise, and what old problems become seemingly fixed by adding correct content again.

We can only hope that while they are rebalancing tanks, they keep in mind the AE aggro issues we have and give tanks something to help with that. We haven't had to worry about it much in RoK because of the decided lack of linked encounters.

Hellswrath@Blackburrow wrote:

And you know, in a way I miss the hate problems. At least back then it wasn't a boring chain-cast on every single pull. We actually had to be concious of what spells we used and when.

Zahne@Mistmoore wrote:

I don't mind having to balance my hate at all. Its fun. In fact this what what I expected when I signed up for a Warlock. Do to much DPS and you die.

It's just the DPS I am doing is not balanced for the agro its generating. That's what bothers me.

Another side of this is you really can't 'wait' to cast and unload your spells on most mobs anymore. If wait to cast the mob is either dead or half dead already.


Fendaria

I am waiting until I see the new warlock AA. I'd be really surprised if there wasn't at least one deaggro option. Although I think null caress should really come with a position blip too by default.

As for the encounter situation in the new expansion I hope that not only do they have trash multimob encounters but we see more meaningful encounter adds on named. Slamhammer, RE2 epic using a burn strat, OK, Byzola, probably avatars but I've only pulled one once... those are the only mobs where I feel the AE is actually contributing in a big way to success. It's more than straight up parse candy (Vyx adds, books, etc). Although I could handle being designated trash killa I guess.

Fendaria wrote:

I doubt few people mind having to balance their hate, provided that the reason we need to balance the hate is because we are doing the most damage hands down. The tier dps class system has long since been dead.

The hate we generate IS balanced with our DPS. It's just most other dps classes have better means of controlling/reducing the hate they generate. So they can do more damage before getting aggro. In some cases, they can do more damage as well (i.e. assassin).


Yes, I agree that I miss the days when we had to watch what we cast. But there is no pay-off for being a glass cannon anymore. While I am a bit nostalgic about it, not providing tanks a means to hold AE aggro while they are already going through the trouble of rebalancing their aggro abilities will only hurt us further as a class.

I agree with most of the issues and concerns that I see in this thread, though I have only given it a glance to be honest.
I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned one of our spells called Boon of Solitude, which includes a 3% hate transfer to a fighter.
Now while the tank should be able to hold aggro anyway, I think it would be cool to see that 3% go up a little, perhaps through Achievement progression. We currently have the opportunity to increase it's trigger chance in our Warlock (the EoF one) AA tree. How about adding a 1% or 2% increase in hate transfer for every point we put in? Maybe have it so that it maxes out at 10%.
Just a minor suggestion to enhance that ability I thought of.

Aikon@Blackburrow wrote:

Actually, I think that would be a great idea. Maybe even cause this line to be more worthwhile now that propogation isn't affecting item procs.

I also think Boon should transfer more hate. Especially seeing as only one person in the raid can run it on the MT at a time.