S cant understand why you would use words like overpowered without even understanding the basics.If you play at the highest levels you would know that we are nowhere near overpowered. We are not a utility class so either we compete with Sorcs/pred and do similar DPS or delete the toon and play something else. No one is going to put summoners in raid for their nonexistent utility..you will have to compete against other DPS classes relying solely on your dps to keep your spot. after testing the new AI 1) The new scout pet on single target seems to be doing the same damage as our current mage pet. 2) The new mage pet does 10 -20% less on single target vs the scout pet 3) On linked encounters mage pet does 50% or more than the scout 4) Mage pet does slightly better on unlinked trash 5) Healer pet still worse than merc 6) Tank was taking hits better, anything more than auto attack pulls aggro from tank pet. cant see any place i would use it in current state.
I want to thank the devs for taking the time to fix this long standing issue. If your aim was to give us a reason to cast other pets than the mage pet then you have missed the mark by a mile. These are the things i would like to see done 1) Ensure that the new scout pet is doing more on single target than the current mage pet.( its about the same or lower now) 2) The mage pet is doing a lot more on linked encounters but it would help if the same was true on unlinked trash. 3) If the healer pet does about the same or better than a merc it would be great 4) Tank pet needs to hold a lot more aggro.
What are you spec'd for that the tank can't hold any aggro? I'm noticing very few problems with the pet holding aggro. I have points in hate modifiers, hate reduction in my gear and I let the pet take a couple seconds to take aggro. I run left side presitge, which has hate mods for either summoner. I do creep up in the hate, but it's nowhere near as fast as on live. It's much more manageable.
Lets pretend that these changes are not designed to buff or nerf the Summoners, just give you more options. 1st question, does all of the pets dps scale with the CB/Pot/AB Mod of the caster? (I think so) 2nd by these changes will you lose dps if you just keep doing your class the way it is. (maybe 10-15% on ST fights) 3rd If you swap pets fight to fight will you get more dps than on live? (from what I have seen myself and heard here this is Yes) 4th the Scout pet and Healer pet does bring Utility. Is that utility enough to use sometimes? (If the group is not ideal, Yes, the necro scout pet bring like 35% group De-Hate and a lot of other group trouby buffs) (I do not know what the healer pet is doing, but if its enough to help a Real healer and get you through a zone… Cool)
I realize this may be a bit off topic but it still deals with pets, is there any way we can also get some much needed work on the stances while this is being done? I figure if we are going to be testing pets for viability, let's do this too.
Several of you have mentioned that the pet doesn't seem to be double casting as often as you believe it should. I can't repro any issues with Doublecast for the pets base spells, though I haven't tested any AA granted abilities yet. Do any of you have ACT reports showing specific spells that are having this issue?
As i said alot of these issues would be solved by allowing our scout/tank pet to gain our melee stats as well as letting the tank pet gain our mit/avoid/resist stats, and making some of the mage pets AE abilities into blue AE's. The ooze/hydro healer pets just needs to have their heals from their abilities set to crit.
Yes all primary pets do doublecast according to my act parses, however not all dumbfire pets are affected by doublecast which they should be and one of these dumbfire pets is vampirism orb.
I was doing this pet appearance box wrong I found the fire gargoyle they are all there ty so much they do all seem a bit small though. Most raid mobs are kill named, then adds, named, adds,named etc. Did you reduce the damage output of the mage pet or just boost the dps of the scout pet some? If you reduced the amount of dps that the mage pet currently does for single target mobs then in my opinion that is a nerf to the mage pet. A lot of raid mobs you dont have time to swap back and forth the adds come too fast and vice versa, so on the single target portion of the fight we will be considered nerfed if you reduced the current damage output of the mage. If I parse the same as I do now I have no issues, if I notice my parse has dropped though well??? I am not sure I havent checked ACT for the mage pets on both live and test servers to compare yet but then I didnt think I should have to if I just asked straight out.
It will be a dps nerf given the fact how certain situations are in heroic/raid fights and combined with how many temp abilities you have to cast. You won't have time to react, even with flash cast.
And you know this because you have raided already with these changes? Sure buddy. If you dont have time to cast flash (which can be toggled WHILE casting another spell and then changing pets) then it seems like YOUR the one who doesn't know how to manage your temps.
You don't need to raid to foresee the problems that will occur with pet swapping during certain raid/heroic encounters but i guess you don't actually have enough experience to actually see the problem this will cause us. So i will just leave it at that and this will be my last time replying to your ignorance.
I tested the fast cast(or whatever it is now) and it has a reuse timer on it. Some adds on a raid named will pop every 20 seconds or so intervals, the reuse to cast this so called fast cast is longer than that, it wouldnt be up every time the adds spawn. I do foresee problems with this, it sounds like a mess to me in the first place. 1. Leave the mage pet alone 2. If you want to mess with anything fix the scout and leave it at that. 3. OR fix this fast cast thing to have no reuse timer on it if your so determined that we have to swap out our pets constantly(which in my opinion is insane). 4. OR hey why dont you just revamp all the mobs in every zone so that adds spawn when fast cast thingy is up everytime theres an idea Also do you really think its a good idea to not have a window or something now so we can see our pet stats? Bad bad bad idea. Who is thinking up these things really?
Or maybe the whole thing won't be as big a deal. There may not even be much of a hit to speak of when you compare things on live now vs. when this fix goes through. You play around and find what works. I don't think there's any need to switch like crazy. As far as the stats go, I've mentioned that they can be viewed through profit ui. It can't be that hard for another modder to throw that info in another favorite UI.
I am very happy for the AI changes to pets overall but... I would agree that changing pets mid fight is not the best solution especially where a reuse on the ability is concerned. Look at the new Ragefire fight in POP for an example of pets dying over and over... If you are dead set on changing things then possibly look at a spell such as the warlock's Negative void which changes between Single target and AOE damage as a solution instead of pet swapping. Just an afterthought..I don't know if this would be a popular idea at all but you could really only have 2 pets, a dps pet and a tank pet and then utilize the above suggestion of a spell to switch between single target and AOE. Would it be a fundamental change? Yes most certainly, but it would make things easier for all concerned I would imagine. Thoughts?
Initial thing I noticed: On Live, the current AI always cast Minions Mark first. It doesn't do this on Beta, it waits to cast it (around 15-20s.) This is one of things the current AI does well, please take this into consideration and keep it in line with current rotation. Just playing around with it on a dummy, it definitely feels like a nerf to the mage pet. That's a shame. I like the idea of a mage AE pet, and a Scout ST pet, but I don't see it necessary to make the mage pet worse on ST than it is currently. Especially since ST fights are supposed to be where summoners don't look quite as bad. I only did limited testing, but my Scout pet didn't do as well on a dummy in Beta as my Mage pet did on Live. It was >100k difference, but current Mage pet is still better. As it sits without changing anything but the AI, it seems like my DPS will go *down* from this on ST. I will admit, I cant get solid data since I cant group on the same capacity on Beta as I can on live. I will try to get some better data soon. I did notice something interesting though, and I like the potential of it. The pet actually auto attacks if its in range now. Honestly, this is where the scout pet should shine, but nah, its still only hitting for an average of ~35k. Which brings us full circle to my favorite talking point: stat sharing. It has already been mentioned in this thread, but I feel it necessary to mention again. The scout pet *should* shine on the auto-attack front, just as the mage *should* shine on the encounter/AE front (which is a change already being attempted with this AI.) Since we are talking about it, the tank pet *should* be able to take a hit at least as well as the summoner can. On paper this is an easy fix: share stats, across the board, at a minimum. Then you can bring pet stances into the equation to make up for what the summoner is lacking (e.g mitigation/block/parry/taunts or some auto-attack stats.) For the record, I dont think that a tank pet should be able to replace a tank, but it should at least be on par with a Merc. Overall, I believe this is a good start. Even showing summoners some love by visiting this topic is good news. As for the UI for the pet appearance, I would prefer if it were setup more like our spell/ability books. Going through the pages and clicking the desired pet would just be more user friendly that way.
Also, if the mage pet is going to take a hit like that on ST fights, at least make the spells AE blues as opposed to encounter greens.
