Tested for almost an hour on beta and the single target loss vs the boost for ae is worth it IMO. What sucks is the SB when using the scout pet. Oh and no way are they going to allow the fire pet to AoE, sorcs will scream to holy hell.
It won't just be sorcs screaming, but necros as well (at least those that have the good sense not to try and get into blue AoEs, when we don't even have a good hate transfer mechanism). I'm not actually worried that the devs will somehow decide to make this change. I trust them to know better. It still concerns me when people get these ideas that could ruin a class I've played for so long. I don't see much thought being put into this whole idea of blue AoE. People think they'll just give it to us and that'll be it. The fact is we weren't designed to do much in the way of blue AoE. We're primarily single target, with conjis getting one more encounter. We've actually had a blue AoE pet, the ooze crawler. It died pretty quickly when it was capable of doing anything. (Now it seems to do a mix of single and encounter with heals rolled in) The same happens with our AoE dumbfire. I don't know what result people are expecting, but it won't be any good. If you think encounter damage is a nerf to the mage pet, you can expect even less damage to come out if it's blue. If you really want to do blue AoEs, play a class that is more suited to use them. They're not about to toy around with two classes like that.
So big patch day and they didn't put in the pet changes. Daybreak (whatever stupid name) is starting to irk me.
Forgive my ignorance, but I always thought the purpose of the necro ooze crawler was to use it in combination with unflincing servant, that stifles the pet but makes it immune to aoes? At least I thought the various debuffs it causes are an aura rather than a cast spell. So with it stiffled and AoE immune it can park next to the mob, debuff it like crazy, and never die.
I was anxious to see the changes go in today, but it didn't sound like everything had been fully checked out and received the okay. There was a lingering question from Caith about pets doublecasting properly. This is a pretty major change and it shouldn't be rushed out, so I'm glad to see it wasn't.
I don't think it uses any of these effects anymore. Recently, it's only ever used the AoE and whatever AA spell we loaded. You can even possess it on live to check. Now, it seems like everything it casts is a lifetap. The description of the pet has even changed on the AA window in beta, noting single target damage and healing the necro and its allies. ACT logs tell me otherwise as I see encounters being hit for damage.
only guessing but it could be a while before it goes live. so everyone should keep giving feedback on what they like and don't like about the changes
The only fights where we get close to the top of the parse are single target fights and we get left far behind in aoe fights. What you are suggesting is that we loose the ability to be effective in single target for a small increase in aoe dps which is too small to matter. No one is asking for devs to make us OP i will be happy if the new ST pet does the same dps as our current mage pet And without blue aoes the mage pet will be useless in all but a few fights where the mobs are linked.
Um' I've only seen 2 summoners on the beta server and we all post here. So what more feedback do they want?
LOL half the raid trash I kill are linked so i dunno were your getting this "pet is useless" non sense, Are we playing the same game? Oh and the mage pet does just fine single target.
Its my understanding that they want to make the new scout pet our single target pet and the mage pet exclusively for encounter damage. Everyone who has tested have reported the new scout pet to be doing less dps than our current mage pet. In your own words you say that half the trash are linked ( its more like 30%) so for the other 70 the mage pet would not show any increase in dps as it has been nerfed to do less st damage than the scout pet. you can prove me wrong by posting parses. All i am asking for is that the scout pet to be doing at least as much dps as the current mage pet. And for the new mage pet to be useful for all trash and not half the trash as you put it.
Ahh, yes. Raid trash. The *perfect* thing to balance DPS around. I don't care if the mage pet does "just fine" if it does *less* than it currently does.
I don't understand where you get the notion that giving a class a blue AE is ruining it (especially a class that is so lacking in that category.) Yes, summoners are more suited to ST fights. So why is it that the new ST pet (scout) seems to do less than the current pet that's in place? Toying around with the class is *exactly* what they are doing.
My only issue with the mage pet having blue aoes is that there's no way to control when it casts those vs when it would cast encounter aoes. I've died in too many cases of someone pulling mobs from the next room with a poorly-timed aoe to leave its use to an unmonitored AI. Now, if they did something like added an effect to Singular Focus where if it was up the mage pet's aoes were green, and if down they became blue, I'd be all over that.
Not every class needs a bunch of blues to do well. I don't know where you get the idea that we're lacking in something, when we haven't needed it for all this time. Even now, we have two more than we used to, plus at least one clicky. If anymore come our way, they should come directly to us, not our pets. The lower DPS on the scout seems a fair trade for AE immunity. I think the final difference will turn out to be negligible. We'll have to see what it's really like on live, when other classes are giving buffs. Just being able to use this pet again is very exciting. They're not toying with anything, they're fixing things to where they should have been all this time. Let's leave well enough alone with this and then revisit it some other time. Myself and others have run through reasons not to have blue AoEs. The biggest is the lack of control. There's also the fact that you want the mage at range, not in the middle of mobs, where it would have to go to cast blues... or are you expecting that to be AE immune too? Expect a drop in DPS to go along with that. Just look at any mercenary. None of the mages or scouts cast blues. The only blues healers might cast are threat reduction. There is no mechanism where they're going to run into a group of mobs and cast blues if they're comfortably out of range for everything else. Even if there was such a thing (as suggested above), there's the potential for people to goof it up. It's an extra piece of management we really don't need. Blue AoEs are best left in the hands of those that actually know when to cast them..
Well I have been on the beta server testing quite a lot over the past while even having another conjie in our beta GH. I am concerned that the doublecast issue is still all over the place. I would be happy to test further if someone wanted to watch or help out testing. For example on a 5 min training dummy fight certain abilities(Blazing Conjuration, Galestorm) cast by the pet were in the 30's and 40's with my doublecast currently at 69.7%. On a concurrent 5 min test different abilities are down to 40-55% so I am unable to pin down which abilities are not casting up the doublecast percentile. The other conjie that was with me had a few training dummy parses with Aery whip and Thunderous attack at 30-35% with a doublecast of 54% IIRC. My other concern is that throughout all the tests I have done, it seems the damage differential from live to beta is anywhere from 750k to 1.8m dps using the mage pet on live versus the scout pet on beta. I did see that soulburn is a lot less on beta even though the scout pet has slightly higher health than the live mage pet. Im unable to test the mage pet in a long enough fight since there are no epic group training dummy's to test on.
This is why i suggested something like Energy Clash but turned into a blue AE so that you have direct control of it.
First off Deveryn your lost, I understand you may have concerns but not one of them hold any water. Since when was it ever a requirement for any class or pet to run into mobs to use AoE spells. Many classes can stay ranged and cast AoE's that hit and go off around the target. Second there is NO loss of control issue, who ever said the pet would get some massive radius AoE blue spell that would pull from other rooms, that's laughable. A regular AoE spell with a normal 10 meter or less radius around the target would be perfect. (This is exactly how Planar Detonation works from the conjuror right side prestige) Warlock also have a similar good until canceled buff Mystical overflow that works the same way as well as many other classes, even the ranger casts ranged AoE combat arts with Bow that hit around the targeted mob. The point is leave the mage pet as is with single target nukes and some encounter spells. Just fix the scout pet and make it a stronger single target dps pet. If you make the mage pet just encounter than its gonna be pretty useless for most fights, it only makes sense to let the mage pet have a mix of encounter and some blue AoE spells so its useable and good on most fights. The reality is this, if say tanks in heroic zones or raid pulled one set of trash mobs at a time, then an encounter mage pet may work and parse well, but this never happens. Pulls are always 3,4, or 5 sets of encounter mobs so each encounter is a group of 2 or 3 mobs and the tank pulls 4 or 5 of these so now you have 15 mobs total made up of 4 or 5 separate encounters bunched up. A strictly encounter mage pet will have crap dps on this pull and will also have crap dps on the named that's after the trash pull. (SO WHERE IS THE MAGE PET EVER GOING TO BE USEFUL) only on the very few huge linked encounter fights with maybe 6 to 8 mobs in the encounter that's just a complete joke there's hardly any of those. The trash pull in Molten pools right before the crumbling Icon at the lava pool (is that where this pet gets to shine? that's a joke) If the Devs aren't going to leave the mage pet as it is with single target and encounters and are going to change it to encounter only it will be useless unless they add some Blue AoE spells also. Even when you have an encounter all the mobs don't die at the same time. So at the start of the fight when theres 3 the mage pet hits pretty good but one dies now theres just two left and it has no bigger single target nukes so its dps just dropped, 5 seconds later the second mob dies, now the mage pet is hitting one last mob with its weaker encounter spells. I think its gonna be useless for most of zones and were all going to wish we had our old mage pet back. My opinion is leave the mage pet as it is now, just fix the scout pet or change the mage pet but make it versatile enough to be used on all fights and pulls (other than single targets which we use the scout pet). Having the mage pet do strictly only encounter damage will not give us something useful the way the game is currently played.
So many passionate Summoners out there still. Some excited for changes and some very weary of them. This is fun to see! Does nobody else like my idea to switch the scout pet be the aoe pet while having heroic only stuns and debuffs making it the prime choice for a heroic group and then leaving the mage pet more or less how it already was and would still be the prime choice for raids and single target bosses? Just my idea... Here's another to throw into the open can of worms for Conjurors... For those asking the new mage pet to have on hit non-encounter aoes, how about adding that to plane shift to switch their encounter spells to on hit aoes? That way you would have some control of it. Give the other pet classes something unique out of plane shift too.
"Tested for almost an hour on beta and the single target loss vs the boost for ae is worth it IMO" Please dont tell me you are a raiding summoner making those silly comments. the only place where we ever post respectable parses are single target so any loss to dps in that area is not ok. The boost is not for aoe but for linked encounters. If you don't know the difference its better if you don't derail this discussion as half knowledge is a dangerous thing. I have seen you posting stuff like " we are a t2 dps class and should be happy with whatever dps we are doing" or"warlocks would be unhappy if our pet gets aoe spells"and my personal favorite " we are overpowered" Taking this time to reply to you as you are choosing to torpedo all the work done by good people when the devs are finally taking a look at the class. firstly have you ever seen anyone asking for T2 dps even for heroics? Which RL wants us for our amazing utility to CoH drunken tanks who fall down ledges? or the super useless shards/hearts? we should be able to compete with all the dps classes.The only reason we are still in raids is that its hard 95% of the warlocks/wizards who play dont know what they are doing but those who play to their class potential will annihilate any summoner on the parse. Its easy to feel OP when you have not met the guys who are good at what they do. as i have said earlier 1) single target pet nerf is not acceptable .(most seem to think that full pet stat sharing is the answer) 2) if the mage pet does only encounter damage and not aoe damage it will not be worth the effort of this exercise 3) if the above things cant be done i would be happy if you don't do anything and leave our current mage pet the way it is( we really cant afford a nerf at this time)
