Station Marketplace vs. Crafting

Artemiz@The Bazaar wrote:

Really?? How do you know that? Was it mentioned somewhere? If so, is there a link you can provide?
If true, that's a bit concerning.

Xaly wrote:

I've leveled toons to max for each profession. The furniture bugs me because it actually looks good. Quite honestly, apart from a few individual pieces the armor on SCaM* look like crap. My armorer and tailor didn't care about anything currently on the list. The few pieces that are good looking don't match anything in-game. Who would want to wear something that looks like it doesn't even belong in EQ2? I've seen a few people with the KKK hood, but they look ridiculous since it doesn't match anything else they are wearing.
What bothers my tailor, armorsmith, and weaponsmith are actually the in-game tiering of crafted equipment being less that useless after T6. The epic weapon line destroys any possible future in weaponsmithing and most of woodworking. Void Shard armor destorys tailors and armorsmiths future prospects. Sure, anyone can create the void shard stuff but that takes from the professions that were actually created to make those types of items. Provisioners are relatively safe, but they were sort-of decimated when the crafting was restructured to produce 2 foods/drinks per combine. Sages, Jewelers and Alchemists are pretty well off making Adept IIIs and consumables. Lastly, carpenters already struggle from only making items that are completely tradeable that don't really have a sustainable demand.
The game itself is causing the tradeskill collapse, not the SCaM*. But it certainly isn't helping.

* SCaM stands for Station Cash and Marketplace

Spyderbite@Venekor wrote:

If they want more revenue then they should make changes that make it a more desirable game to play and then market that game so increase its customer base.
Squeezing the customers they do have for more money is not the way to go and a sign that SOE is truly desparate and has little care for it's current customers. In the current economic situation SOE should be careful not to create a community of have and have-not's based on whether they can afford to pay MORE cash to fit in in this game.
People play this game to escape their reality and have a fantasy environment, not another instance of being unable to afford decent furniture because of real world finances. This is just the wrong time to be trying to extract more money from it's players, if times were good then maybe it wouldn't be so bad, but this just stinks of SOE trying to get blood out of a turnip that is already being squeezed by other forces.

Bratface wrote:

And the companies that offers said entertainment are in business to make money. If they weren't this would be a non-profit organization running the game. Not a Corporation.

SOE is in the business to make money, yes....but the premise of this game when I signed up for it was that you paid you subscription you had an equal chance to get anything the game offered. Be it rewards for adventuring or crafting, or special events or picking it up off the ground. All you had to do was do the work to obtain it. Now SC has been forced upon us....this was not what we contracted. You are no longer on equal footing...the same opportunities do not exist. You have now created a class system of have and have nots. No longer can you work for your goods, now you have to buy them to have the best items because the best are reserved for LoN and SC. Sorry this is not the game I PAID for all these years. It's the wrong direction for THIS game. Make money by offering a really good game with content available to everyone.

kela wrote:

lol

I was being facetious...

Spyderbite@Venekor wrote:

They already get paid, they already make plenty of money from subs. If you doubt that then you have a lot to learn, this is a cash cow to SOE (it's not WoW but it's NOT a money pit for SOE by any means) and they are trying to bleed its customers for every drop they can get and they are banking on (taking advantage of) our loyatly in order to get away with it.
The thing about this is that other games that have you buy stuff are FREE TO PLAY, not like EQ2 where we pay a sub, this is squeezing us from both sides and it's unfair.
The business model for freerealms is to buy with real money those things you want in game, but the game itself is FREE TO PLAY.
Botom line is we get to pay and then pay more because the most desirable items are only obtained with SC, I don't mind the aa/adv potions or pets or house pets because they do NOT take away from a crafter, but appearance gear and furniture DOES take away from players, namely crafters and that is wrong. Players can't compete because SOE makes sure they don't have anything as nice as what you can get with SC, they hold ALL THE CARDS and use them to shaft the players, their own customers.

Spyderbite@Venekor wrote:

Wow. I actually agree with everything Spyderbite said.

I agree with most but I dont think having multiple avenues is silly. For instance, I can buy my bread at the Wal Mart for $1 a loaf or I can buy it at the gas station around the corner for $2.75. Well why would I pay almost 3x the price?
Simple - its worth more for the convenience. I dont have to drive the additional distance, spend more gas, spend more time, stand in longer lines, etc. At the end of the day you make a determination on what your time is worth.
Its the basis for the way most things work on the Exchange Servers now. Why would anyone buy a toon when you can roll one yourself and level it up? Simple - your time is worth more than the money you would spend to buy a toon and enjoy the current tier content. It works and people buy toons all the time.
What becomes restrictive about the current single avenue method is it automatically excludes those people that have more time than money.
As a business model it makes sense if you only want to attract and retain the most profitable players. When you intentionally create a tiered class of players based on your real world income level you will create a desire for people to leave the game. Are you willing to pay to play a game where you already know you are excluded from content based on your real world income?
And I guess that is the real point. Not everyone can play every sport as they have different cost associated with them, perhaps this is the next evolution in gaming.
And for the record there is nothing "micro" about transactions that are $4-$20 each. Micro transactions are those which are under $1US. If these items had come out in the .10 range it might not have been a big deal. Now consider the item count for a house : a few hundred items x $5 each...hmmmm....willing to spend a couple of thousand dollars decorating a virtual house in a virtual world that could disappear at any moment. I dont know about your household but I think my wife would be a little upset about that one.

I also am disappointed with the new items that Carpenters and Tailors could've made.
Many have said what I also feel, so I won't clutter with yet more of it.
I'd like to see a reply from Domino or some other red name about this, tho. Just to see their side of it and if there is a solution to the great amount of disapointment from crafters.

Pheep@Unrest wrote:

Here's what I think you're missing:
Without Station Market, that furniture would likely not have existed in the game at all. Also pretty sure Domino had nothing to do with this, probably a seperate team developing these items. So it's not like you lost out on anything, really.

Amphibia wrote:

So we should be swooning with gratitude, bowing and scraping to the Almighty Station Cash, that the nicest, most luxurious furniture items available to the game world are NOT available by PLAYING the game? /boggle

Valsehna@Antonia Bayle wrote:

That's not what I was saying, and I think you know that.
You don't have to be happy about it, hell, I'd prefer those items to be craftable too. I have a level 80 carpenter, and decorate a lot. But this has nothing to do with crafting, and I bet these items were developed by a seperate team.
So then it becomes a question of whether you prefer it to be available via the marketplace, or not at all. Judging by the replies here, I guess the answer to that is not at all.
Other than that, read the posts by Rijacki and Spyderbyte, as they seem to have a clue.

Right now, I do think we "lost" the cabinet and the table graphics to the Marketplace - those are rather unique. I am not sure we can even expect those to be added to the game for the carpenters because then not as many players probably will buy from SC.
But I do believe we deserve furniture just as fine as this new set, though. While the damask chairs, sofas, and all, for example, are great as items of luxury ... but ... they are also ragged and torn. Look at the Cherry Grove set then look at the damask furniture ... the quality is obvious.
So, what I do want to know is: Can we expect same level of quality for future carpenter-crafted items?
Basically many, if not all, carpenter-made pieces are borrowed, so to say, from the actual game content - they are exact duplicate of what exist now. The new set isn't.

Artemiz@The Bazaar wrote:

This is really the important thing for you carpenters to realize. Being able to buy a handful of house items from statoin cash still leaves an entire house left to the carpenters. Over time if more things are added perhaps it would be possible to make an entire house out of station cash stuff, but nobody is going to spend hundreds of dollars on their in-game house.

Now for appearance gear, it's actually reasonable to completely outfit yourself with station cash items. In a big way the outfitters are taking a bigger hit than the carpenters. Like I've said in like 3 posts here already, this armor set may actually encourage more carpenter sales so buyers can get other accesories to fit the new look.

Amphibia wrote:

So what you are saying is that even with a new exp coming you KNOW that there will be nothing as nice as this? Please tell me why this could not have simply been added to game, is the art department wholely incapable of making items that look nice, can they only make torn shabby items that are already in game, is that really the limits of their talent?
Please explain to me how you can make such a sweeping statement, the fact is that they know we wanted something better (because we begged them for it) and they used that against us by providing nicer items only through SC.
As I stated before, they hold ALL the cards, they decide what items can be player made and they have now shown that they are keeping the best for SC and the player crafter be damned. There is no way that any carpenter/tailor/armorer can ever compete under these circumstances, it is biased against them.

Bratface wrote:

And your sweeping statements belie the possibility they might be adding things like this as recipes, quest rewards, etc down the road. There have been some mighty nice hats and other equipement bits added since such things started appearing in LoN and now are in SC. There have been more craftable items added (yes, some share zone art, not all do), etc.
Pheep is saying that without SC, there might not have been the funds to cover both developer time and artist time to add THAT set, and possibly others based off it or even wholly new. Pheep didn't even make the definitive statement you're accusing. "would likely not have existed" - the prhase 'would likely' is not a definitive, it is a supposition.

Rijacki wrote:

Oh please, I made no statements to that effect, I said that there is no way of anyone knowing that there is nothing coming in the future. If you want to attack me I am sure you can do better than this.
None of you (or me) know and the fact is that if the game is so badly funded as you seem to believe then why is it still in business? I am sure they make MORE money with SC and LoN but it's icing on the cake or we wouldn't even be here.
You have stated numerous times that you have friends on the art department and I understand you defending them, I am sorry but if they can't make nice looking stuff for this game then maybe we need new blood, maybe something from the SC team, they seem to have it nailed.

Bratface wrote:

Quote even one place where I hav e said I have "friends on the art department". I do know a few of the EQ2 devs and I have been working in the software/computer industry for over two decades, but I never specifically said I have friends in the EQ2 art department or that I am defending them in particular.
We actually DO have "new blood" in the EQ2 art department for the last year. The lead art designer left the game before RoK launch and we did start to actually get additional items added into the game which had been declared 'impossible' before that, including a slew of additional house items. In addition to him, there have been others who have left and been replaced and there was a direct statement by the game producer they've added new EQ2 artists specifically because of the success (read revenue stream) of the Marketplace.
The lead time on development in a game like this is pretty substantial. There's lead time on -any- computer or software development. Heck, for the devices I test, we're getting close on release of a product that's been in development for about a year, going through all the phases.

I for one do not buy the arugement that EQ2 NEEDED/NEEDS station cash or LoN. I believe that this game can/could support itself with subscriptions, and all items could have been incorporated into the existing game play. I believe that EQ2 is very capable of being self supporting enough to provide the staff it needs to keep it a viable and growing game. I believe that SC and LoN were products of greed for THIS game. LoN should be a stand alone game separate from EQ2. SC belongs to the realm of Free to Play games. SOE has plenty of new games coming out where SC and it's ilk would make sense and be there from the begining and people would be aware of what they are getting into. This game was not designed around these transactions, nor were the paying players polled or even presented on the Test Server for consideration or comments/feedback. No, it was just forced upon us. NO, I don't believe we need SC and LoN to have nice things in game, I don't buy it at all....sorry your arguement holds no water.