Station Marketplace vs. Crafting

Ethin@Lucan DLere wrote:

I got the point the first time you made it . I've said repeatedly that it's not SC you should be knocking but the SOE business model. Under their current business model, no station cash =no items because they won't allocate the resources. Station cash made them allocate it so it's functionally the same. It doesn't matter if they have resources or not if they aren't going to apply them and that should be where the argument is. The issue stems from how SOE manages its resources and all this argument is as at best peripheral.
shaunfletcher wrote:

You should read the responses in detail before calling another daft.

Eveningsong wrote:

My armorer and my tailor both wish the new gear that is on sale in SC was craftable. But it isn't and SOE isn't going to make it craftable. Neither are they going to give my carpenter friend recipes that compete with what they sell on SC.
I wouldn't mind opening a Filene's Basement in 4 Bayle in SQ. Give us the recipes for the SC items once they have been on sale for 6 months or so. But you know it isn't going to happen. We aren't ever going to get recipes that can compete with what is on sale in Station Cash. We can't even complete with the faction merchants. My tailor is still wearing store bought clothing.
There is no way SOE is going to enable tradeskillers to compete with SC by giving us comparable items to make.

Silken@Butcherblock wrote:

That would be cool for outdated quests and such. Just use Mara. Sucks it wouldn't work for station cash though since money never goes out of style.

Ethin@Lucan DLere wrote:

You make quite the assumption about me...thats... cute.
I make more plat in-game selling the raw materials those carpenters need to make the fluff for those who like to play house.
And fyi I do not care about SC, its just addt'l options for me to choose from if I want them...

Rashaak wrote:

Actually I play for the housing and decorating, I do adventure but if not for housing and implied targeting (the two things this game had that wow didn't) I would be playing "another" game because withotu those two things it is all the same to me.
So while you might play sims forthe housing not everyone feels the same way, for me sims wasn't what I wanted, housing here was.
The fact that the better stuff, stuff that isn't dirty and torn and shabby looking has to be bought with cash is a turn off to me and others, But it won't do any good to not like it when people will buy it and encourage SOE to put even more things on SC that should be in game and player made.
I played Rappelz, it was a cute game but to get just about anything you had to buy it with cash, EQ2 is becoming just like it.

I don't understand all the drama here.
Carpenters can make a lot of nice things. This is one set of furniture. There 7 appearance armor sets and 8 hats. I never saw tailors and armorers as upset as a few carpenters here. (And I have an 80 armorer and 80 tailor.) Armorers and tailors also make some nice appearance armor. (Not so much the hats . I'd like to be able to make some great hats.)
I don't mind the appearance stuff on station cash (or the LoN cloaks - which can be pretty nice). And I think the furniture is pretty nice too. I may actually buy it. And there is still a lot of things I'll buy off the broker ... until I get a carpenter leveled.
I like having different options.

The first clear infringement upon live game play by $tation Ca$h and surely the thin end of the wedge. But then I suppose carpenters have always been viewed as the "fluff" tradeskill. I would ask that people boycott these items but that is like asking people not to use plat sellers, everyone will cry foul but plenty will then carry on and take advantage.

Xaly wrote:

It$ nice you enjoy your different option$ and that you don't mind the appearance $stuff on the $tation ca$h. And ye$, the furniture i$ pretty nice too.
It$ unfortunate you don't under$tand all of what you refer to as the "drama" here.
I see it as this. The hands-down best looking, most detailed, plushest, most luxurious items in the game, are no longer available by PLAYING the game. Slap down them dollars kids.
Oh sure, this is "one set of furniture", etc., etc. and carpenters can make alot of "nice" things.
Comparable to lobster, cavier, and filet of beef vs. gruel, meatloaf, or mush. Its all still food, but eh!
Let them eat cake.

Ethin@Lucan DLere wrote:

Really, I would think it would be on large piles of cash.
Truth is Smed's job is NOT to make the Customer happy, it is to make lots of money for SoE, so that SoE can pass a cut up-to SCEA, who then passes a cut upto Sony, it also inables SoE to accually hire people to work for it and make products people want...if they didn't want it they would not pay for it.

Rashaak wrote:

I believe Sims Online got shutdown.

Ethin@Lucan DLere wrote:

How do you think new products come on the market? Befor the first one is sold there are no resources "From that product" available to make that product...
The way things come on the market is they PROJECT a profit and hire the new resources baised on that projected profit. If it meets or exides thier projections then they did a good job... if not... well looks like that person will be getting layed off.

obikenkenobi wrote:

Accually alot of the Art in the world is NOT a seperate item, but accually PART of the zone art itself. Domino already posted about this when she first took over. Alot of those items you see would have Wall pieces and such attached to them if they just made them placable. Long Story short... those items for the most part are infact new items BASIED on current art.

Fluff is great, so it's not a bad thing to admit that carpenters ARE a fluff class.

The crazy thing is that nobody would be complaining if these station cash items were implemented into a quest reward. Frostfell and other live events had tons of furniture and nobody is complaining about them.

I never thought furniture would be exempt from station cash. It's not really going to hurt the carpenters, and like I said before, it might even encourage people to buy more things from carpenters so they can design a house fitting the station cash items.

Xaly wrote:

Armourers and tailors make a living selling stats. The appearance of their items is a small secondary market that never really took off.
Carpenters make a living selling appearance items, they have nothing else.
On the bright side, this set is white... white things are easy to recolour.

Xaly wrote:

Why limit it to appearance stuff? What is appearance to some people is the heart of the game to others. I wouldn't mind all the appearance and household items being sold for cash if I could buy mythic and masters.

I'm just going to point out that there are an awful lot of furniture items that are only available via quests. Not all furniture comes from crafting. Some of it is claimed for vetran rewards. While I'm not a fan of station cash, I think this thread is being all together too negative.
I'm not sure how the dinnet set is made. If it is made as a single item (table, place settings and even chairs are technically a single item and count as 1 vs house limits) I could see the individual peices being broken up and made into craftable recipies. To get a 6 person place setting, utentiles, plates, goblets, chairs and the table itself would take 31 items at least to replicate the same thing. Some people would pay for the convience and item savings of having a single item do it for them. Crafters would naturally gravitate towards the more customizable individual items.
It doesn't have to be us vs them. Try finding ways to make both sides happy and share.

TheSpin wrote:

Enjoy your fluffy strong boxes and sales boxes.

TheSpin wrote:

Everyone forgets the pages and pages of complaints about thus and so quest item, even furniture bits, being oh so much better than crafted and why weren't these added to crafted.. on and on. Everyone forgets the pages and pages of complaints at each season, especially the first Frostfell with crafted stuff, about how thus and so class was being slighted because others can make -their- stuff. Even a thread started only a few weeks ago complaining about how the shard crafting is for all classes and not just and only a very narrow few is forgotten in this one statement. Not to mention the faction crafting for both RoK (and the massive complaints by jewelers alchemists got a necklace, amoung other complaints) and TSO.
Is the furniture set nice? sure. But so are the various things added with TSO faction questing, the Frostfell stuff a few months ago, and even the Erollosi day stuff a couple months ago. Carpenters even had special recipes added -just- for them with a TSO collection quest.
No one can say that new items haven't been added since LoN and then SC launched. There are even ways to get some exceptionally dramatic items and even LoN style paintings which have nothing to do with LoN or SC (the pickup items in the TSO instances, something that's also new in concept).
No one can say the devs haven't listened on adding in some of the things people have been begging to have. Room dividers, clear items, 'building blocks', more plants, etc were all player requested items.
Do most (not all) crafted and quested house items share art assets with zone art? yes most does. It's 'less costly' to do it that way (both in manpower hours and in lag inducing effects), but it still requires extra work by the art department to ensure the items have surfaces on all sides (and you can see, in the earliest stuff, corners were skimped there), can be placeable, have appropriate collision to other items, and are sized appropriately. Not all of the 100% acquired in-game house items are also zone art, at least to begin with. Some has later been used in the zones, though (and it's amusing to me, too).
I can assure you I was upset (and very vocally so) when I saw armor appearance items in LoN and SC, seemingly the best (and easiest to obtain). But, other items HAVE also been added to game. Other than the hats (some of which are utterly ridiculous) and the ludicrous (to me) single shoulders, the armor bits had already been in game obtainable 'normally' though in different colours. Even the single shoulders are copies of one shoulder, minus arm, of items in game. And then we had new and different items added with Frostfell and Erollosi day not to mention some with TSO and GU51, too.
In my opinion, as long as new stuff is added into the game itself, having LoN and SC is just -another- avenue to add items in for those who want to partake in that way.
My line in the sand remains where it was with EQ1. If I have few or no avenues to advance my character(s) and/or do fun things in game without paying real money (aside from the monthly subscription, the cost of my ISP, the expense of computer bits, and the price of power), I'll continue to play as long as I am having fun.

Xaly wrote:

You can't compare appearance armor to our regular fare. If carpenters can't make good furniture, what do we have left? Repair kits that have been obsolete since EOF? Armorers and tailors still have the gear that toons use in the course of levelling. Carpenters have garbage that looks like it is leftover from a tag sale in the rain.

My opinion for what it is worth..
I am disappointed that these nice additions were added to Station Cash instead of in game as recipes.
However, now that they have. They can not be added in game in addition to being sold on Market Place. Regardless if offered in another color or whatever. If they're available in game, then those items would never sell on the Market Place if readily available in game. Even if added as no-trade items, Carpenters could just make them, be added as a trustee and then go place them in customer's/friends/alts homes.
Market Place is in place to do one thing. Make Money. People can blame greed or accept that an additional revenue was needed. Whichever way you feel that you want to twist it.. Market Place exists to make money. If Wrigley or Marlboro had their products available for sale in the convenience store but also had racks of their products for free.. I doubt very many packs of cigarettes or gum would actually be sold. And that's just not a good business model.
As for those requesting all this new stuff as part of your $15/month. Break it down a little more relative to today's economy. How far are you able to make $15 go these days on a personal level? $15 will barely get you in to a movie theater for 120 minutes of enterainment.. and in some areas where the cost of living is higher.. you might not even be able to buy a small coke in addition to that ticket. However.. you pay $15/month for 43200 minutes per month of entertainment. The cost to run a company is becoming more expensive. As can be seen by those companies laying people off left and right just to make ends meet. Raise the monthly subscription and add all the new stuff that costs money to development? That's just breaking even.
Anyways.. I'm no economist. And, my point wasn't to lecture about corporate profits/losses. But, for those that think that these items should be available for sale and as player made items.. well that just doesn't make sense. Like I said earlier.. if you are presented with something for free or for $10.. which would you choose?
So, seeing this really nice furniture in Market Place for sale instead of in the form of Carpenter recipes? Yes, disappointing. But, asking for it for free is just not something that is going to happen. You can toss out ideas like "difficult quests, etc." but seriously, people blow through even the toughest challenges these days with ease.
Bottom line.. no matter how disappointing it is.. people are going to buy it. A lot of people are going to buy it. And in turn, that will finance future items on the Market Place. And, perhaps some of that money will also trickle down in to SOE development of the game. I sure hope that's the case.
Slippery slope? Perhaps. Maybe even likely. But whether you, I or the stranger standing next to you on the Freeport docks likes it means nothing as long hundreds of other players continue to purchase stuff. And that is exactly what is happening. Its the direction the gaming industry is headed. In all games. This isn't Smed's evil plot to make himself a million dollars. He just took the initiative to get the ball rolling on something that every single game out there is currently in the process of adding to their own games.. including WoW and Darkfall and AoC.
With that said.. you will only have two choices in the near future. Adapt to Micro Transactions.. ignore them and play the game as is and choose not to acknowledge those items other people purchase... or just quit gaming. Cause while there are still games out there that are exclusively subscription based/funded.. they won't be for long. And, you'll have no where to turn to except Solitaire from the Start Menu in Windows.