Spell Research Instant Upgrade crosses the line of Pay to Win.

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Khayos, Feb 4, 2013.

  1. Khayos New Member

    Experience potions, even health and mana potions dont quite cross the line as much as instant upgrades to your spells. This provides a clear advantage to the person who pays to win. If my friend and I are the same class and the same level, we could duel or fight mobs and mostly come out even, however If my friend pays for instant upgrades, it gives them a CLEAR advantage over myself who is looking to play the game properly and earn my strength. This is crossing the line SOE and I think you know it too.
    Emms and Lalala like this.
  2. Mohee Active Member

    Almost all the other SoE games marketplace contain actual gear you can buy, and it ain't to shabby of stuff either.

    It's coming... just watch...
  3. Skwor Active Member

    You can buy the same upgrades so there is no unfair disadvantage or advantage. Play as you like and your friend will play as he/she likes.

    Free players choose to live with the limits of free play, those who choose not to invest in spell upgrades via SC do the same.
  4. Khayos New Member

    You seem to not realize what pay to win is. If I have to pay station cash/real money to keep up when i already subscribe, that is pay to win, There should be no advantages given for paying a little extra, that make another player have to do the same to keep up and be viable. This crosses the line. Mounts and xp pots are one thing, actual spells which are POWER are completely different.
    Lalala likes this.
  5. Rijacki Member

    As much as I am against 'pay to win', you do not "have to pay station cash / real money to keep up" with spell upgrades. You can purchase the exact same upgrades from other players with platinum or even get lucky enough to have one drop for you as loot. You can also obtain research reduction potions in-game for doing quests and other such. You can also just wait x # of days for the spell to upgrade via the research system without paying a dime or even applying any of the non-SC obtained research reduction potions.
  6. Khayos New Member

    meanwhile the people who pay for stuff in the store dont have to work for anything. yes that is totally not pay to win. o_O
    Lalala likes this.
  7. Pauly Well-Known Member

    life isn't fair. Someone will always be better than you. Even the ability to 'pay' isn't a sure win.

    -things they don't teach any longer
    Uberfuzzy and Filly67 like this.
  8. Sixgauge Active Member

    It does cross the line and it is pathetic when one player can invest hours of time and effort in a game to obtain an item and the next player can just buy it. It cheapens the game greatly.
    Athenia, Mermut, Estred and 1 other person like this.
  9. Khayos New Member

    I have always been fine with someone being better than me because they are more skilled or earned more. I am not fine however with someone being better than me because they paid for it with real money.
    Athenia, Mermut and Lalala like this.
  10. Skwor Active Member

    I know exactly what it is. You seem to think you can decide what is fair and what isn't fair in life. Sorry to break the news to you but life doesn't work that way, you don't get to decide.

    Instead of whining about what others have and what you have not, try to improve your own lot in life to have more like those you envy.

    SOE is a business who's job it is to make money, this makes them money. Anyone could have done this when the research was potions, it was just a little more of a nuisance so your real complaint seems to be "it is to easy now because it is one click instead of seven clicks?" Sorry but this is all one big fat green envy monster roaring, nothing more.
  11. Skwor Active Member

    They did earn more than you, more money. So you can go back to being fine with it.
    Filly67 likes this.
  12. Atan Well-Known Member

    Its a fair non issue since with the combination of the researched, and the common drop rate of masters, its just assumed anyone that takes this game even the slightest bit serious has completely mastered out.

    I admit, I used SC to master up at expansion launch, but that was more cause the only reason I had a SC balance was to purchase expansions which they since decided would not be SC purchasable (after i already loaded my balance). Otherwise, I'd have just spent a few hundred plat and had them all.
    Estred likes this.
  13. Koleg Active Member

    Don't discount that fact that it just might be the player selling or trading the item as much as the other person using RL Cash. Loot still drops in the game and that loot is either used or sold in the game for in-game currency.

    So while, SC Research walks the line of P2W, it isn't something that cannot be gotten through direct game play at an equal pace or effort. How many times to people get free masters from friends of guild members... getting a clear advantage for having a friend of a guild member in an MMO... OMG the madness must stop! Items like the 280 AA token with the COE Purchase would be a similar situation, it can be done with or w/o token, but RL cash will grant it much faster.

    P2W is more associated with items which cannot be acquired in the game, but certainly not exclusively. P2W would be more associated to things like the RL Purchase of AoD which is the only way to attain +20 AA points, where w/o AOD a character is limited to 300 Max AA... those extra 20 must be paid for with RL Cash and in some class roles it IS a win or lose situation.
  14. Stormkiller Member

    For you argument to be valid you would need to stop the trade of spell scrolls on the broker as there is no difference in paying soe in cash or the broker in plat for spell upgrades
  15. Sixgauge Active Member

    The entire real money trade aspect of eq2 as a whole sucks.

    Its like when you were a kid and were the first one in your school to finally beat super mario bros... and then you find out your little friend beat it cuz he bought a magic warp whistle to level 8 from a 50 cent gumball machine. But you both saved the princess and were rewarded equally with the same game ending.
  16. Gideon Member

    you just now seen this was there? you've been able to do this for a long time. they had research reducers on the market for SC for a year or so, they just added a instant upgrade button on the research window is all , witch really is no different then them selling the reducers.
  17. Davngr Well-Known Member

    tbh ..

    who cares.. more power to ya if you can do do it.
  18. Ynnek Well-Known Member

    It's a valid complaint, but it's not the way the game works any more. And they've done such a good job of blurring the lines between plat and real cash in game over the past year, that I can't even really work up a good moral outrage rant over it.

    In principal, I agree with you.

    In reality, everyone who subs gets 500SC a month with their subs. Thus, a moderate SC flow becomes an extension of your regular sub, and it's hard to get outraged over someone using something that's part of their regular sub in the game. And then how do you differentiate between that natural SC, and evil tainted SC you spent extra cash on?

    The existence of Krono completely makes Plat <> Cash interchangeable for FTP and subbed players alike.

    The purity of "In game items from in game accomplishments" is dead. I'm just happy it hasn't slid any farther down the slope than it already has. Of all the games out there that offer RMT "enhancements", EQ2's model, while imperfect, is one of the least offensive...
  19. Khayos New Member

    False, Paying plat to a broker that i spent time earning in game is not the same as paying real life cash. What you do in real life has no bearing on what you achieve in game. Just cuz you make more money in RL does not mean you deserve to be better than the people who put effort into the game. This is where the majority of the people on this thread seem to make a mistake. Your RL money should not give you what it takes others playing the game to achieve.
    Athenia, Lalala and Estred like this.
  20. Wingrider01 Well-Known Member

    The only thing that is different between SC items and SLR is the payment medium - and even plat if available for real money now with kronos. So they both cheapen the game

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