Since Rangers are being locked to T7 DPS why aren't Assassins?

Sony it nerfing rangers ability to kite a lv 83^^^ with zero risk in 3 mins. Go get yourself critical % range gear and give up some mele critical gear...rangers are going to have to choose what they want to specialize in. As it stands rangers have it too good, this is why everone is playing one. There will be rangers after this nerf that are uber in mele, or range. Sony has allways been against the kite farmers...since eq1, maybe a handfull do it, but it is 1 too many. Hence nerfs to roots over the years, snares, range damage, damage on the move, mez while moving, charm while moving, I'd say all of the real painfull nerfs were to make kiting less viable. Stats are chicken (*&^ now. Its all about % increasers.
If you look at any servers numbers and see the % of people playing lv80 classes....think sony nerfs the 4% or the 10%. Their shopping list has to be based on "hey look everyone and their brother is playing this class....time to balance the numbers. whack" Hard to say a class sucks when everyone owns on.

They feel bad for all the dead rangers in EQ1. So, they are keeping you low on the hate list in order to keep you safe.

interstellarmatter wrote:

Lol. Pretty soon all you Rangers will get used to that warm, safe, fuzzy feeling that you get from knowing that you're low on the hate list like us Bards have. Really, it isnt that bad.

PS: I know nothing about arrow mechanics or T8 DPS Tiers, but the quote mad me laugh

Elenire@Blackburrow wrote:

Nerf Bat never coming anywhere near a Dark Elf Assassin while Aeralik breathes.
We only need to check out who did the Racial Traits for Dark Elves to figure this out.

OK 2 things.... 1. If you dont suck you can do better dps that some assassins 2. Read about GU44 before you cry again in which rangers will be helped.

Rqron wrote:

You are absolutely right, JC.When a player becomes a developer they stop being an ordinary player.Allowing them to play on the Live servers creates a conflict of interest. One which a few of them have exploited over the years (that we know of, heaven knows what they've gotten upto that we don't know about).Every SOE employee that has any ability, whether by themselves or via a third party, to alter the game (ie. the live environment) or divulge information not in the public domain creates the appearance of impropriety ~ even where there is no actual wrongdoing. Currently, the employees at SOE seem to be "self policed" and look where that's gotten us.Genuine players have already left the game because of the actions of some SOE employees and SOE's managerial responses to any outcry from customers.At the very least, a Dev cannot play this game without recourse to their inherent knowledge of the inner workings of it. To remove what they know would be impossible.To share that knowledge amongst friends would be improper, even noting that they should be using a different weapon, stance, tactic or whatever. These things may seem obvious to someone well-versed in the workings of the game, but the smallest piece of advice based on Developer knowledge is an unfair advantage.At the very worst, it would seem that SOE employees can give away detailed strategies, loopholes or just plain alter the game environments as they see fit, respawning mobs, resetting lock-outs, bypassing requirements, moving player accounts without adhering to normal procedures, and who knows what else."With great power comes great responsibility."The majority of devs (and other employees) may not be guilty of any wrongdoing (intentional or otherwise), but there are some who are ~ and the culture within SOE that allows this impropriety to continue, or at least, does nothing to ensure that any employee cannot influence the live environment beyond the scope of their job description, is what's tarnishing the image of EQ2 developers and all SOE employees.Right now we need:

• All SOE employees have free accounts to play on any SOE games' TEST server.
• All previous personal accounts are frozen ~ characters may be copied to TEST.
• Customer Service and Development departments must remain independent, and all changes/actions must be documented and authorized.
• I'd even be tempted to terminate Fan Faire to reduce the opportunity for fraternization, because it's obvious that some people cannot control themselves. Or at the very least, I'd only allow producers and public relations to attend Fan Faire.

Draconian?
It's just a game??
Some people take this very seriously. Of all people, so should SOE.

LOL... I'm loving the drama queens.



Ranger DPS seems just fine to me.
They always seem to be at or near the top in parses.
I don't ever recall seeing a dev post that Rangers must always be the top DPS in every group/raid.

It's a plot I tells ya... A deliberate campaign of misinformation on Sony's part designed to mess with us. Oh, I almost forgot <passes out tinfoil hats to all the loony conspiracy theorists> here you go, this will stop them reading your mind at least.
It's nothing new; I remember back when Wrin and others were getting the same treatment in EQ, and favouritism was rampant in the old MUD days. A dev makes the mistake of mentioning he plays a certain class somewhere, or someone who knows spills the beans, and all of a sudden everything is viewed under that light. Whether fair or not, whether or not the dev actually did use their position for gain, whether or not they're overlooking things unconsciously because of it, any revelation which can be couched in terms of that dev being biased will be, by an ungrateful and spiteful user community.
Really though, given that the Sony perspective was that dps was already relatively balanced when the arrow mechanics were 'broken' I can't fathom why anyone would have expected it to abruptly change when the mechanics were revised.

Ranger DPS has historically been too high over the past few expansions. This upcoming change is needed, and looks to be well thought out.

Assassins do not need a nerf.

All right, folks. Sorry to move this a second time, but this is really a ranger issue and I doubt the rangers want other classes butting in on their threads.
However, if you want this to remain an open thread where you can have another discussion about what you feel are your class DPS issues, then please don't clutter it up with attacks (against the devs or other posters) or cries of favoritism. That's a good way to have the thread end up sidetracked and closed. Keep the discussion civil and coherent and your points will be more easily proven.
Thanks!
ETA - Also, keep the discussion focused on improving your class and not tearing down another. You can use other classes as a comparison for proving the points about your own, but don't agitate to get those other classes changed just to make your own look better instead.

I am equally as vocal about the need for some Ranger improvements. However, calling for another sister class nerf is really not appropriate. Assassin's as they stand are about right dps wise compared to their utility, Rangers need a boost.
Calling for class nerf's just brings out the trolls and every other ignoramus that feels they need to chime in a prove what little clue they have about this game or the class in question.
Bara

Barakuz wrote:

Aye, leave assassins alone they dont need a nerf. Rangers just need to have there DPS brought in line With assassins who offer way more to a raid/group (dps and Utility wise) then Rangers do.

Algazeed@Runnyeye wrote:

Maybe you should pay attention to the arrow changes thread in testing feedback.

This is a class comparison thread dealing with the changes on test, that was first moved to gameplay and then another moderator came on duty and decided he needed to move it to the ranger forums.

I am using the comparison to show the disparities in usefulness of the class, since you have zero constructive information at all about any of the comparisons I made other than a very weak trolling post maybe you should sideline yourself and not come back till someone can explain to you the situation rangers are currently in with the changes on test.

Tell them pop up books may help you with your current reading comprehension levels.

Yep, its because Aeroflick plays an assassin. Ofc he want to top the parse. Also he hate rangers and want them to burn in h*ll......................

Ok excluding RSB, could someone maybee run some test's with either SDL or Tunare's Wrath (on live vs ET on test) If Aeralik is saying RSB is so overpowered, then the epic should be ahead of SDL and TW since it has better stats proc etc. If ET on test is still doing less then said bows, adjustments need to be made as those ARE T7 Bows.

I've been looking through the data again. I just don't see how you guys can say you are locked to t7 dps. In a raid perspective you are not far behind the assassin. wizard and assassin are pretty much neck and neck. The ranger is right behind them with the swashbuckler. In the raids its like almost perfect balance how they line up. Somedays things shift around slightly but in general things look pretty much dead on. This is one reason I'm trying to go with smaller changes rather than overshooting and having to scale back.

Now looking at the group data you get a different perspective. The rogues, assassins and bruisers definitely excel here but you are still neck and neck with the wizards and warlocks. I've also noticed wizards complaining in group situations as well so you arent alone here. Group fights are fast and furious no doubt about that and the top classes here definitely have a bit better setup for these situations but when you look at raids where the fights lengthen you see how they really fall into place.

All of this data is something I will keep analyzing for sure. This is why I am trying to keep to small adjustments like I have said in the past. In the meantime though, we need less of these outrage threads because they do not end up helping you out since they are distracting while trying to find the few good suggestions from the level headed folks.

Aeralik wrote:

the point is the fact that With our Primary Weapon that we use to DPS we have not MOVED WHAT SO EVER from T7-T8 (yes we got a bit more of CA dmg but EVERY class did) while every other melee class got a huge boost in Auto attack dmg just from the weapons they wield (True T8 weapons). We are STILL doing the same amount of dmg that we were in T7 With both T7 and T8 Bows. What is so hard to understand about this?

Aeralik wrote:

What data are you looking at to get Rangers not being far behind Assassins?

Seriously, it would be helpful for you to post your data because an overwhelming majority of people are disagreeing. Not only rangers, but from every corner of the game. Heroic content and Raid content.

Assassins are leading Rangers at the top end by around a thousand DPS with spikes being far greater than this, the two thousand range. At the low end I have been seeing parses of equivalently geared Assassins and Rangers with the Assassin leading by 300 or more DPS.

What would you call being far behind if you wouldn't call doing the same DPS as the considered T2 DPS classes of Swashy, Brigand, Illusionist and being beaten by those classes regularly?

This thread may be outrageous, but it is accurate to the predicament this class is in, less utility and less DPS than all other main role DPS classes.

The changes that have occured on test not only leaves all of the tier eight bows doing equivalent damage as to what they are doing now, as you can see from the tests being run using the same bow, same ammo, same crit/DA rating, same strength, same DPS mod, same haste while T7 and lower bows are being reduced in effectiveness when they were considered balanced in T7.

Instead of doing ever increasing small incremental changes upward, while a deadline for the release of this LU looms closer with no noticeable or effective difference being made, make a single large change and then make small incremental changes to tune the DPS potential down to being equivalent to Assassin DPS.

Aeralik wrote:

Why won't you share this data? you always say you have this data, that shows you were fine dps wise. But everyone else (Who actually play the class) shows different data.. I am seriously begging you betray for a month, Honestly just do it to prove you actually have the right perspective to see the problems or lack of problems. I have played my ranger since day 1 and have NEVER complained about any of the nerfs swung our way. I didnt start getting vocal about this until your idea of a fix came about... BETRAY TO RANGER!!

Aeralik wrote:

A few points of interest you should consider in this data. Is that an assassin can obtain basically the same dps on his own as a group of one in a raid. They self buff to dps well above 100 and dont need anything from anyone else, as the raidwide spells cover it. They also give another non-poison user another 250+ dps with there nice buff, so there effective dps is even higher than there good counter part. You basically say in your comments that the ranger is suppose to be behind the assassin, why? when its just an alignment choice (are good ppl just worse at dps?).

As a dirge, i understand the wording for chime is melee attacks and therefore method would say not ranged. But was it so game breaking to have the ranger not get there additional ave 1000 damage per spell cast? ... They have delay 7-9 weapons, that normally factor to 4-5s with haste and so get between 3 and 4 autoattacks with 12-17s duration. So including 2 CA's over the duration as well. Thats 5-7 chime procs, at an average damage of 180 (around 1000 damage) over 15 ave seconds. So a grand increase of 66 dps over duration. Which if you consider chime wont be up all the time, thats going to come in at something like 40-50dps bonus.

All of that is if the dirge is spec'ed for duration of the chime song, and has mythical or is in the group with the ranger. But in all honestly, not of a classes abilities should based on how another class has spec'ed for bonus abilities or equipment. That is part of the high end progression for the hardest encounters in the game, where your dps values should be above the norm.

Something you could consider to allow fine tuning of the ranger class, is a personal buff that increases the damage of all arrows. So if an arrow is +100 piercing, and you have "Fletching Mastery" cast, then it adds 10% bonus to that value at app1 raising to 50% at master II. It would be a static buff over all levels gained at around the 48 special bonus mark. Then you can fine tune this damage bonus value without affecting other classes that use bows with autoattack. In the future it would also allow group advancement of this buff in distant future of lvl etc.