Since Rangers are being locked to T7 DPS why aren't Assassins?

The DPS tiers have been abandoned so there is no reason to keep asking for them to come back.

Computer MAn wrote:

Exactly. This ties in to the utility issues. Each class has an amount of utility that was designed around what DPS tier they fall into. T1 dps got very little. Now as the tiers have been obviously abandoned, some sort of class balancing seems in order. Either that or adjust until the original T1 dps classes are T1 again.

Rangers and assassins are good and evil counterparts (predators), so the two classes should be balanced. The following quotes concern me:

Aeralik wrote:

So an evil predator does more DPS in both raids and groups than a good predator. Why should someone even play a good predator (ranger)? If you don’t raid it’s even worse – according to the quotes, both rogue classes, the evil predator, and even a tank class ‘excel’, and the good predator falls somewhere behind them (with wizards and warlocks). That doesn’t make sense at all.

To be balanced, the assassin and ranger need to provide both groups and raids the same DPS boost, and for the same price. Rangers have to pay for arrows to maximize their DPS, so assassins should have to pay too... or neither should have to pay.

Andok wrote:

Balance does not equal the same. And for the record Assassin's do have to pay, we run 3 poisons + pay for arrows.

Computer MAn wrote:

Rangers run 3 poisons too, plus use up WAY more arrows. It costs more for a ranger to maximize DPS than it does an assassin, but it should be the same. Either make arrows free, or make assassins have to use the same amount as a ranger.

Andok wrote:

Why should it be the same? Guardians have to pay more to repair their shields due to tower of stone than Zerkers and they don't complain.

Computer MAn wrote:

I’m not sure if you really don’t understand or if you’re just being argumentative.

Rangers and assassins are good and evil versions of the same sub-class, so they should be balanced with each other. If one of the two classes have a disadvantage, say having to pay more to maximize DPS, then it should also have a balancing advantage, say doing slightly more DPS (or whatever). As it stands now, rangers pay more than assassins but do less DPS, according to the dev, in both raids and groups. Personally, I would rather rangers pay the same as assassins and forget about an opposing advantage.

There’s no need to be defensive – rangers just want balance.

Andok wrote:

No, Rangers want to be the number one DPS on raids and are using arrow costs as that reason when you fail to look at the fact that other classes must use items to do their job that their counterparts do not. Guardians must pay more in repairs for their shields than Berserkers, Warlocks must farm Nil Crystals to name a few.

Computer MAn wrote:

That's not true at all. Look here on the ranger forum - most rangers just want arrows removed from the game.

Again, a dev has stated that we do less DPS than assassins in both raids and groups, yet we pay more. Paying more to do less is senseless.

Computer MAn wrote:

I have not seen ONE ranger in any of these threads demanding to be THE number one DPS class on raids. We want to compete. Period. We belong with assassins, wizards, and warlocks. Period. Yes, the DPS tiers were abandoned, and that's exactly why the classes are in such a ridiculous state, because they were designed around a plan of balance that the devs do not adhere to anymore.
Balance does not mean every class is the same, no. Balance means balance. When you have a class loaded up with goodies that can also do the same DPS as a class that does not have said goodies, you do not have balance. If you put five apples on one side of the scale and only one apple on the other, those apples are not going to balance out with each other.
You're well aware of all of this. Quit trolling the thread.

Botom line here is you have a developer that plays an assasin he is blinded by his hatred for rangers and can or will not have supporting data.

Computer MAn wrote:

No you are WRONG. Rangers want to be on same level as assasins not top or best. I think if the developer was forced to play a ranger you would certainly see some changes. The difference is not only being felt while raiding but also pvp. i soloed 95% my pvp gear I stood a fair chance against most even con classes. Now i struggle to kill classes 8 levels lower then me. Did I just get bad bad all of sudden? or maybe my class is broken and no one cares.

While I their has been some "rangers should be the best dps due to paying for arrows, ect" sentiment hidden inside some post, most have been a desire to be able to compete with their fellow predator class.
Ideally it would be in one fight the assassin's parse would be higher and in the next it would be the rangers depending on length of fight, what long time use ca's were up, ect.
I see that as reasonable and understandable. Druids (both heal fine) have the same sort of imbalance on the dps side (the only halfway useful "utility" a warden has for groups where as the Fury's have good group DPS buffs, more useful debuffs, and can do a whole lot more DPS.
Predators should be relatively equal but different and so should wardens and fury's. Ranged vs melee for predators and long nukes vs short nukes/melee for druids.
Sorry about putting the druids in but subclass relative equality is a sore point with me especially because of my own class imbalance. Its funny that one post I read here was a ranger talking about getting replaced because a better class would take his/her place BUT when he listed the healing classes in the raid, the warden was not there. Guess they were already replaced by a DPS/hate transfer like a swashy for the MT or maybe a second fury since the MT group is the only one where a warden can fit best with no good group mit, HP, or DPS buffs or decent debuffs.

You know what? Forget the data. apparently there is some serious conflict here, rangers actually raid WEEKLY for months and insist their DPS is sub-par yet people don't believe it because theres some 'mystery' data devs don't wish to show or even share the source of. I suspect devs might be looking at some 'world wide' parse info they get on the server side. also surprised at the very request of rangers posting their data, try a little searching in this section and you will find piles, we just stopped posting it because it was depressing, but we all know what it is.
Never mind all that though.


-Most rangers believe for a fact their DPS is sub par
-Most non-rangers including raid/guild leaders believe rangers DPS is sub par and seriously lack utility to make up for it

Perception is reality.

We have given several possible solutions to change our 'perception' not only to be dismissed almost immediately but actions taken in the almost completely opposite direction. The hole that has been dug for rangers being an almost waste of a slot, among other things, on raids is extremely deep. You could know for a fact that your data is 100% correct, what are you going to do to prove it and change our perception?

Bottom line: If rangers are fine, prove it, otherwise I don't want to hear it anymore. I see my proof of rangers having sub-par raid DPS several times a week, including other rangers parses. Wheres yours?

Taken from Ryan Shwayders (Blackguard) blog :

http://www.nerfbat.com/2008/02/22/m...ment-lesson-28/

MMO development lesson #28

"Perception is reality. When it comes to game balance, what really counts is how it feels while playing the game, not what the numbers tell you. It may be perfectly mechanically balanced–you have all the numbers, you’ve made all the calculations, and it is balanced. But, if that’s not how it feels when you’re playing the game, it isn’t balanced and needs to be changed. This is one of many reasons that it’s 100% vital that you play your game as a player does (a lesson unto itself)."
As you, Aerslick, are unable or unwilling to back up your claims, are deaf to input from the affected gaming community, coupled with some other massive serious non-coding issues that arose lately around your person, it's time that you step up and either stop dodging and give us some real reasoning for mechanism changes, that are based on real explanations, and not on some phantomatic internal data that you cannot even back up, or just admit that you balance classes around changing mechanisms without consulting your superiors about what effects on the general class balance your coding changes will have.

Either way, player's trust that you will do what is best for the game as a whole has sadly faded into extinction.

DT arrows and EH arrows are nerfed.

EH poisons are not ? XD

Mofackie wrote:

Please don't use a 26 second fight on a what looks to be a tier 2 trash mob as something to point to, because its not. The assassins used concelment chain maybe with execute and some temp buffs to pull crazy numbers on a trash mob. Just like the mana burning wizard and more than like the lifeburning necro.

I don't disagree that rangers need small adjustments.

Aeralik all you seem to be doing is frustrating people by looking at your 'data'. Why not just put your changes on hold, dedicate some time to playing a ranger and form an oppinion based on experiance. You can see there are people very passionate about this class, and all that seems to be happening is ever increasing frustration leading to the oversight of some very valid suggestions made by people.

Here is a good one to help balance the cost v.s. dps for all those that despise the cost we rangers half to pay. Give us a quiver that is a drop from a named that is Ranger Only that summons arrow's. Or hell even make it a quest if you half to. This would solve the issue of us needing to pay out the **** for our arrows every raid. It cost me 6pp just for Arrows and Poison's on the last raid I was on.

ok, It's your neighborhood pain in the rear Coercer again. But after reading the last post I have a different idea. Why not have a quiver that summons arrows like Suurine says, but on top of that have the summoned arrows be poisoned arrows? Then if you want to use additives for other abilities, let that ability stack with the poison on the arrows? Wouldn't that cut down on your cost?
Heck, if I can't get my own class fixed, maybe I can compaign to get someones else's fixed instead. Although I have to admit my track record is pretty poor.
Btw.... HI Meerah....miss you still....