Discussion in 'History and Lore 2' started by Emissary Vex, Nov 30, 2012.

  1. Mixxit Active Member

    The experimentation spires are in Griegs chamber in the zone Griegs end and they are of a totally different style to the ones in Mons Letalis (near the 'fallen orb' where all the weird alien like creatures are)

    I would assume the Mons Letalis spires are much older and would agree that Luclin made them when she plucked several races from norrath for her own amusement. The mural on the shissar temple in luclin kind of makes out that the shissar escaped Kunark by floating a giant pyramid but that might just representing their flight away from Norrath to the moon

    Who knows! xD interesting topic though
  2. Kelvmor Active Member

    Personally, I would love to somehow see Shissar in EQ2. I don't see how it's impossible that they wouldn't have kept records of their own calendar before fleeing to the moon; they predicted their own demise once, why not a second time? The Shissar were very powerful mages that could create miles of vacuum space around their transported city. Who's to say that their temple and city aren't still on Luclin, protected by their own paranoia? And has it ever been explicitly stated that if they slithered outside the Grey that the Green Mist would immediately show up and destroy them?
  3. Meirril Well-Known Member

    Mixxit: No seriously the contraption in Mons Lethari was built by the Combine Loyalists but abandoned when Greig started to go crazy. Its been a long time since I've played EQ1 but I'm sure its mentioned by NPCs.
  4. Meirril Well-Known Member

    Kelvmor: No, we have no idea if the Greenmist would go after them. However, we do know the Shissar in the Ssra Temple are absolutely paranoid about it. Heck, we're not explicidly sure that the Grey would actually stop the Greenmist.
  5. Meaghan Stormfire Well-Known Member

    This device? I hate it when they feel the need to retcon 10+ year old established lore.
  6. Meaghan Stormfire Well-Known Member

    The Combine Ruins in the Dreadlands with its massive spires was the principle launch point of the Combine exodus. I remember that much from Ruins of Kunark. I dont think Grieg actually built on Luclin pre-exodus. The DL spires were his contraption. The Nexus spires were built after the Combine arrived. At least that was my impression from the lore way back then.
  7. Cuelaen Well-Known Member

    I too would like to see the Shissar make an appearance in EQ2-and the Grimlings for that matter lol-i used to spend hours hunting them, and swiping thier weapons to sell in EQ1:)-I never could understand why merchants would pay so much for such crudely made weapons though....
  8. Meaghan Stormfire Well-Known Member

    At the very least Luclin could make a guest appearance during the next EQ1 anniversary event. I think they should at least add a Kunark and Velious retro area.
  9. Meaghan Stormfire Well-Known Member

    OK, just found a bit of old lore about the Mons Letalis spires predating the Norrathian spires and that the goddess Luclin knew of their workings. Given this and that the spires all connect to the Nexus might suggest that the first spires are Akhevan in origin and the the Combine merely copied them.
  10. Kelvmor Active Member

    Another question, then. Can undead survive the Greenmist?
  11. Rainmare Well-Known Member

    offhand I would say no. From what we know of the Greenmist, when it eats you, it eats you. flesh, bone, tendons...the stuff practically liquidates it's targets. but, considering the fact that it's only been unleashed on races, and leaves inanimate objects intact, there's a chance a lich might 'survive' the greenmist if the greenmist didn't eat his phylactery. but we don;t know if the greenmist would eat it because it contains a soul, or if it would just pass over it because it's not a 'living' thing.
  12. Meaghan Stormfire Well-Known Member

    I think the Greenmist destroys whatever it is that is specifically summoned to destroy.
  13. Meirril Well-Known Member

    I remember the spires looking differently...really makes me question my memory. Story wise Greig built the pylons in the Nexus to facilitate teleportation back to Norrath. When Greig first discovered the Nexus, he could teleport freely between Norrath and Luclin. After the Exodus and Seru's army following the Loyalists, the Loyalists wanted to return to Norrath. That is when they discovered that teleportation stopped working and Greig started working on an alternative means to return. I'm perty sure the facility in Mons Lethari was his making but I can't say that for certain.
  14. Meirril Well-Known Member

    What we know about the Greenmist is that it is an entity that Cazic can call upon for assistance. We've got a fairly good idea that it wasn't created by Cazic but rather released by him. We also know it is incredibly selective. It passed through Shissar cities destroying ever Shissar but left the Iksar slaves unharmed. It also passed through the ranks of the 2nd Rallosian Army destroying it entirely but sparing the Ogre warriors fighting for Freeport. So it can not only identify who it is killing, but what your intent is. In Ykesha it spared some Ogres that agreed to convert to the worship of Cazic Thule so not only does the Greenmist seem to be able to read minds and intent, it can also make deals (and be reasoned with?).

    The last assumption that can be made is that the Greenmist can't be attacked. A full army of Rallosians and the Shissar, neither of them could find a way to fight the Greenmist. The Shissar of Ssra Temple put up a barrier, but at most it would keep the Greenmist at bay, not actually harm it. The Greenmist seems to be a creature of somekind. Possibly a coalessed Fear that chockes the life out of things and consumes its targets. That is totally conjecture on my part.
  15. Meaghan Stormfire Well-Known Member

    The Greenmist is a living entity. Cazic Thule has the knowledge to call upon it, but it isn't of him.
  16. Mixxit Active Member

    Mons Letalis (EQRPG - Luclin Page 125)

    'Dark Side (western); Twilight (central); Light Side (eastern). The inhospitable slopes of the Mons Letalis — the “Deadly Mountains” in the tongue of the Combine Empire — lie largely west of the airless wastelands of the Grey. These steep-sided mountains are constantly shrouded in clouds and fog, and harbor no real civilization or succor for the weary traveler. Shik’nar insectoids, predatory rock hoppers, and small, vicious reptiles are among the few life forms that dwell on the harsh surface, while the mysterious structure known as the Spire harbors restless undead spirits, and the monstrous thought horrors lurk in the caves below. There is little here to draw adventurers and explorers save adventure and exploration themselves, for the region is singularly barren of riches or civilization. The mystery of the Spire and its inhabitants has brought a handful of expeditions to the region, both from our city and from Sanctus Seru. Few have gotten close enough to perform any thorough study, and most have returned with numerous casualties — if they return at all. The ancient moon called the Fallen Orb is another lure to the curious and scholarly. Apparently fallen from the sky countless eons in the past, the Orb may be what transformed the entire region into an arid wasteland. Beyond these things, young one, I foresee little reason for you to venture to this place. All the same, it is best that you learn Mons Letalis’ secrets, for, despite my predictions, you may end up paying the realm a visit nonetheless. Life can be strange that way, after all.

    'The Spire
    This odd formation resembles the wizard spires of Norrath and the transfer points in Shadow Haven and the Nexus. Four graceful columns bend inward toward the towering central spire, around which the entire structure is built. A winding spiral staircase runs up the center of the Spire, accessible through a small entrance in the ravine below. The staircase ends at a massive platform, hundreds of feet above the ground, where the four columns rise further into the hazy distance. The Spire has no living inhabitants. It is infested with creatures called spire spirits, however — cloaked, shadowy entities that float silently up and down its stairs and wander across the platform above. Their exact nature and origin is not known, for few explorers have even seen the Spire up close, let alone survived the experience.

    'Brokentop Spire (EQRPG Page 126)
    'This peak resembles the spire around which the platform to the north was built, but it looks as if it was shattered by titanic force some time in the distant past. Observers theorize that the spire was broken when the Fallen Orb smashed into the surface of Luclin. Today, the spire is notable because the opening to the thought horror caves lies on its northern slopes.'

    'The Fallen Orb (EQRPG Page 126)
    'Even before the coming of the shissar to Luclin, this region had been the victim of a cosmic disaster. Previously a lush wilderness that stretched from Marus Seru to the Scarlet Desert, the land was shattered when it was struck by a great celestial body — the great rocky sphere that today lies embedded in the Mons Letalis. Some claim that the sphere’s fall is associated with the coming of the Maiden’s Scar, the terrible storm that devastated nearby regions, but no convincing evidence of this has yet been uncovered. The Orb is enormous, and still retains its spherical shape even after its fearsome impact into the mountain range. Scholars from Seru are said to have examined the Orb on several occasions, attempting to confirm a legend stating that the Orb is hollow and full of hidden tunnels, where ancient treasures and artifacts can be found. Some wild theories hold that one or more of the monstrous races of Luclin — the most common candidates are the netherbians and the thought horrors — actually arrived with the Fallen Orb, and have since spread throughout Luclin.'
  17. Rainmare Well-Known Member

    actually no, Grieg couldn't teleport freely between Luclin and Norrath. what happened was the Loyalist fled to Luclin, and found themselves underground in the Nexus. they were unable to return to norrath, and started working on a way home, establishing a settlement there...when the Inquisition got to them, they found the same result. the more extreme of the opposiing sides went to form Katta Castellum and Sanctus Seru. the rest put aside thier differences and formed Shadowhaven, witht he primary goal being getting back to Norrath.

    Grieg was the primary force in trying to return home, and did his experiments in the place we know as Grieg's End. however Luclin, not pleased that the remnants of the Combine were there in the first place, didn't like the idea and drove Grieg to madness.

    later Shadowhaven managed to be able to use the network on thier own, building around the Nexus itself. it could be theorized fomr what we know in EQ2...that perhaps Grieg's attempts were more along the lines of the 'New Nexus' plan of El'Arad, and Luclin drove him made to prevent what happened when El'Arad activated his Nexus on Norrath. (Greig's End has/had a HUGE 'Super spire' like the one that Terran's Grasp is built around)
  18. Emissary Vex Active Member

    It''s not really a retcon. The confusion was just brought about by players during the Luclin expansion and mistakenly connected the Shissar and Combine. There is lore somewhere that I can't find at the moment that says the Shissar escaped the Greenmist by using their own ancient magic. However people ignored that and started saying the Shissar used the spires to get to Luclin. Here are links for four books on Shissar.

    And again. "Combine Spires" was another mistake of the players. When Luclin came out. They published Al'Kabors journals on the official website.

    This is from the third journal entry.

    Remarkable, truly remarkable...Written amongst pages of the ancient tomes of thecombine Empire, I discovered something that contradicts what has been theorized about the combine ruins. For years, it was believed that the combine Empire created the structures that facilitate teleportation for wizards, however, I found evidence in the ancient tomes that proves these theories to be incorrect.

    Within their manuscripts, scientists of the combine Empire made notes of the discovery of sets of four tall spires found in several areas across Norrath. The spires emanated a magical energy that was unexplainable. After years of extensive research and experimental studies of the structures, they came across a method of using this power for teleporting to several locations. In order to use this power to its fullest, they built the pyramidal structures in the middle of each set of these monuments.
  19. Meirril Well-Known Member

    You mean the entire Loyalist army entered a one-way blind teleport to escape the Seru forces, and Seru followed them...with nobody thinking there was a possability that the teleport would kill them all? I'm perty sure Greig was able to teleport back to Norrath when he first got the teleporter working and the Loyalists used it to get away from the rebels who followed them to Luclin. After the two armies teleported to the moon Luclin withdrew the ability for the spires to be used to trap both sides in her realm. Greig was driven mad to prevent him from finding a way to teleport back to Norrath.

    Shadowhaven was located next to the Nexus but they wern't able to use the teleporters for hundreds of years (Lost Age to EQ1). While it isn't known why, Luclin (the goddess) opened teleportation to her realm to allow adventurers to travel there. Maybe she was bored because there certainly didn't seem to be any pressing problems.

    As for the idea that Greig was going to make the same 'mistake' as El'Arad...I doubt that was Luclin's reasons to drive Greig mad. If nothing else, there is the Ulterian Nexus to consider. Luclin didn't make a move to stop its creation. Granted there is a very significant possability that Luclin withdrew with the rest of the gods and thus was unaware of its construction. However, teleportation didn't begin working until the Gods returned. Luclin controlled teleportation before they left, she probably still controlls it. Also Greig was aware of the Nexus and probably aware of Luclin's manipulation of it. He was probably looking for a non-nexus method of teleportation so Luclin couldn't stop him.
  20. Meirril Well-Known Member

    Yes, this is the part that is a Retcon. This journal wasn't created during the Luclin expansion launch, it wasn't released until EQ2 was in its Kunark expansion. During the entire period from launch of EQ1 through the GoD expansion (the last time I played EQ1) the spire system was always refered to as the Combine Spires and that Geomany was used by the Combine to build the spires. Furthermore there were at least 2 different styles of spires. The 4 pillars we're all familiar with (found in Greater Feydark and Terran's Grasp), and the pyramid type (which there are no examples of in EQ2). The brown spires that are more common are a creation of the Quellthulians and form the backbone of the Uterian Network.

    As for associating the Shissar and the Combine together...impossible. The Shissar were long gone before the humans were created, much less the Combine Empire's rapid rise and fall. And yet...EQ1 had the Shissar and Combine work together and co-occupy a city under the water to prevent the Greenmist from getting the Shissar. So the Shissar are contemporaries of the Combine and they apparently enslaved other races but ignored Greig's experiments on Kunark and indeed joined forces with the Combine before the whole rebellion started. Seru accepted the Shissar joining the Combine (a race of Neromancers and slavers hunted by their own creator), but drew the line at Teir'dal because they were too evil? Sorry, that part of EQ1 is also a retcon and I'm glad it doesn't affect our history over here in EQ2.

    After 2004, don't mix EQ1 and EQ2. Anything introduced after the Planes of Power expansion can be totally ignored by EQ2 players until the devs here add it into EQ2. And when I say after Planes of Power, I mean in the real world. Just because some expansion in EQ1 that was released after PoP claims stuff happened 10,000 years before doesn't mean that same event happened at all in our Norrath.