Sentinel's Fate- Item degradation as you outlevel it.

Jerokane@Antonia Bayle wrote:

Actually that only holds true for certain absolute stats like heal crit and double attack. Things like spell crit and mellee crit actually need to be over 100% in order to crit 100% of the time against raid enemies higher than the player's level.
With 100% crit against one of the many level 88 raid enemies in TSO for example, I'm not going to crit 100% of the time..I actually need closer to 110 - 115% to crit all the time against that.
If they plan on making such a change to the maximum stats my gear can reach...they had better tune the expansion mobs in accordance since in TSO the mobs are pretty much tuned towards people coming from the end of RoK with around/near 100% or more crit.
If this change goes through before the expansion I cannot imagine how long it would take most guilds to kill an enemy like Tyrannus the Dark, who even with the current "ridiculous stats" can take over 8 minutes of constant fighting with no room really for errors in order to win.

Morghus wrote:

That's why I think they need to nerf across the whole board.
Appearantly they screwed up with ROK and TSO and let stats getting out of hand.
So maybe the easiest way is just to nerf the whole 70-80 content and bring it down overall.
This way they make room for improvement again and maybe even start looking for new different ways of progression.
Maybe by introducing new stats, specific for new expac introduced mobs, etc, etc. Plenty of room for new ways of progression really.
Jer

Jerokane@Antonia Bayle wrote:

You don't have to raid to get close to 100% crit. There is enough on shard gear and various instance jewelery for at least some classes to get 100% when counting relatively common group buffs. For one thing, raiders need more crit because they fight higher level mobs... you need a lot more than 100 crit to constantly crit on a L88 mob.
As for the item deleveling... I say so what? The transition from T8 to T9 is going to have you replacing armor anyway, and this time it may be good to leave some old stuff behind and have them itemize a bit better to either match or better the new items. One example someone gave above was the bloodthirsty choker... but an even older item that has still not been truly matched/upgraded is the Arm of Erollisi from claymore. Yeah, theres some items similar (the rolling pin comes to mind) but when you look at the proc rate and mechanic the 3-expansions-old arm still comes out on top.
As for this impacting crafting... not too likely, and if it does it'd be positive rather than negative. The mechanic won't go into effect until 60, by which point you should be upgrading your armor every tier anyway. I remember when they had this basic concept back when the game started -- now the game is mature enough to actually support the idea. With the pattern of level cap raise every other expansion there downright needs to be a mechanic to allow for advancement over two years of a new tier. In TSO that mechanic was criticals and critical mitigation, for one thing. SF and the ratings system will give a bit of a reboot to the system as your gear that was great at 80 becomes less and less useful as you get up to 90.

Halo of G4 wrote:

Totaly agree with you here..
I do wonder though, sense all gear will be outdated going 80-90 with Odus it seems that there will be no value in going back to the TSO zones I cant complete now. That is sad indeed, they seem to be making it so that TSO groups will be extra hard to get as there will not be an incentive for most players to revisit the zones.
I cant wait to see what SoE comes up with as a “fix”

Xaax wrote:

Yes, very sad. The trend definately reminds me of the changes that happened over time in eqlive. I started playing it way back when only the base game was first released and quit around the middle of Luclin. The game just wasnt the same, I saw fewer and fewer people around, and the old zones everyone used to love and use went completely empty.
If there isnt any reason to revisit old zones or do old events, they might as well not even be there any longer. With TSO we had around 20 new instances to grind shards for our armor/weapons etc. We had a few new raid zones with pretty good loot and difficult challenges and horrid pattern/loot drop %.
It may be different for others, but it took me nearly four months just to get the last few pieces of my t4 gear...and I am sure there are others who have/are taking even longer. These encounters mostly are not too fun and take alot of work to complete.
In seven months from now, all the equipment that people have worked at including the adornments for those pieces as well as the few extremely rare pieces such as the Najena ring, Signet of Vampire kind, certain avatar pieces etc will be made useless as you get to the cap as the stats of these items will be nerfed to being around a tier lower than they already were so that we can possibly gear up in the new expansion's gear to be either equal/slightly better to where we were or possibly worse.

Gungo wrote:

And, if you are say level 70, wearing a level 70 piece of armor, killing a level 72 mob, does that armor become weaker vs that same level 72 mob if you become level 71?
Because thats what this item degredation is... YOU level up and get more powerful, more skilled and your gear becomes LESS effective vs the same exact mobs.
I can understand something not being as effective vs higher level mobs than lower ones, but for your sword (in effect) to become less sharp and less capable against the same things because you got better is illogical, and not the best way to do things.
Put this together with the fact that instead of getting new gear every few levels, you need new gear every level just to stay even, then it becomes pretty annoying really fast.

I think it might be better to just implement this as a rating factor instead of scaling. Basically like mitigation, avoidance, and resists, save now the same rating system applies to Crit, Double attack, etc. I think it'd be a better way to do things, as long as the crit/DA, etc. deteriorates at a slower pace than mit/avoid/resists.
Just my 2cp on the matter.

Gungo wrote:

When you turn 81, you will lose crit/da/ca and spell damage and stats. It is per level, with the intent that at 10 levels it is only 33% as effective.
If it -started- at 10+ levels? I wouldn't really have a problem with it. It would satisfy the needs of forcing people to look for current tier items to replace previous tiers items.. and wouldnt force us to do it every level.

Jerokane@Antonia Bayle wrote:

Its never taken me more than 10 days to reach the level cap of a new expansion. RoK took me 5.

I love to rant as much as the next guy, but could someone post a link to the Item Degradation info? I would like to know what exactly it says.

I will say this much, a nerf is NEVER an exciting edition to an upcoming expansion. It's like getting ice cream then getting kicked in the privates.

"Items over level 60 will soon have a rating system that decrease the armor's effectiveness as you gain further levels. This will not affect AA abilities that trigger from or use this gear."
link: http://www.zam.com/story.html?story=18665 under the points attributed to Aeralik.
This is the only statement i can find on the topic.
As ive said earlier: Nothing of any substance, either logistically or functionally has been published. Anyone posting HOW such a thing will work is just baiting people into spreading misinformation.
Calm down, breathe, and wait until details are known on how any such system will function before screaming the sky is falling.

It's a nerf, what more is there to say? It sounds like it will not be out with the expansion, it will hit everyone.


I see Aerilk is still on his windmill crusade about fighters. I won't get into that though, and ask that others do not here. I am sure we have a thread somewhere that still applies or can be necroed .

Until I have more information, all I can say is that it's a nerf. I don't like it.

Gormak wrote:

Out-leveling gear

Once considered for the Rise of Kunark, items will now scale down in effectiveness starting at Level 60, eventually “greying out” when the item is 10 levels below your adventure level. The effectiveness of such items will be reduced by 33% at 10 levels. So an item with say 7 spell crit will be scaled down at 90 to around 4 spell crit.

Morghus wrote:

There we go, knew i missed one

Morghus wrote:

OK, that is alot like the original system. Can we have items that are a bit above are level to compensate?

How will this affect jewelry which is barely worth crafting right now as is. (For the record this is a personal opinion. I dislike that for the most part you can have stats or resists, not both. I have seen better jewelry off vendor trash mob drops.)

Over all, while I do not like it, it is a nerf, I can deal with it. Ten levels is nothing really. I will admit though, there are times I have seen NO drops at my mains current level, and I am wearing some gear that is over 10 levels lower as my fiance's tailor, the guilds main, is not high enough to craft what I need. The same goes with weapons. Heck there are times I get no Adept 1 spells, (Whatever they are called now.) for my class. I get the useless ones for priests, and there are no priests in the guild. They tend to get vendored, sadly. And I can't afford to have another crafter make me what I need, or buy it off the market. As I get higher in level, it only gets worse.

For the record, I have notoriously bad luck with drops. *shrug*

Morghus wrote:

Well if it's against a lvl90 mob, then it's a logical change and then it would work the same as basically already is with mitigation and such.
But if it means that lvl80 armor with wich you could kill a lvl80 mob... but with this same armor at lvl90 you suddenly get your rear butt handed over by this same lvl80 mob...
...well then I was greatly mistaken and this will be the most idiotic idea of a degradation system I've ever seen. And then I can start to see why we already have a great uproar on our hands.
Jer

Xaax wrote:

You can disagree with it all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that by running all RoK solo quests, a player will earn 100 - 120p in coin and quest rewards, and a further 30 - 50p in mob drops.
You not having the time to progress your toon to the point where you can run content is not an issue that needs to be considered by mechanics. If you ad the time to run that content, you have the time to get your toon able to run the content. Likewise, if you don't have the time to get your toon geared out to run content, you wouldn't have time to run that content should you had the gear.

Gungo wrote:

You seem to be having the understanding issue or are you just intentionally trying to be misleading? You say "At level 80 the gear you are currently wearing will not change either. " Yes, it will, unless it is level 80 gear. If this goes live, level 70 gear that a character is still using would most definitely change by a significant amount and it would most likely no longer meet a player's needs.

Felicite wrote:

I still don't see the negative side to this.
It means that if you want to level your character, you have to get new gear as well. This is something that "most" players already want to do, and those few that don't will probably continue to not care. Since every player in the game has the means to get gear if they want it, it leaves no one out. Even if it did leave people, all that would mean is that leveling a character now involves a small amount of maintanance.

From several of the above posts, it is clear that many players feel that the devs have released overpowered equipment into the game. If this is the case, then this problem needs to be addressed directly and not in a round-about way that will disproportionally impact casual players who for the most part don't have access to this equipment in the first place. If all the devs do is replace an overpowered item with a new one 10 levels higher, then nothing will be solved in the long run. There will just be a very short gap when characters become weaker and then everything goes right back to where it is now.
If there are items that really need to be removed or significantly reduced in power, then the devs should just make the change and be done with it. If they remove these items through item degradation and don't replace them with new versions then they are just postponing the raider uprising that will eventually occur as they realize that their shiny toys have gone away forever. Actually I think raiders will be even more angry if this is done behind their back in this manner.