As I have stated, the only reason everyone is not on board with this is because they want their 75p out of the rares they are selling. they want to keep that market, they won't admit to it, they will outright deny that is the reason. But the truth is out there already, all you have to do is look on the brokers across the different servers and see it. What they don't understand is that yeah the rare prices will come down some, but the common prices will also go up some and there will be a happy balance somewhere in the middle. You might not make as much as you did before, you might make more, depends on how good you are at watching the fluctuation of the market.
It is 800 clicks per stack (1.click refine button, 2.click harvest to be refined, 3.click to confirm refine, 4.click to accept reward.) even at 2000:1 ratio I am good with that as long as we can do stacks at a time quickly and efficiently. Right now reward is not worth it, time is not worth it, points spent is not worth it, delete button is better.
Edit: -> Directed to Avianna, who seems to think that anyone that disagrees MUST have ulterior motives, and be evil at heart. Which I take kinda poorly, especially when untrue... It's not worth the argument, but the problem is, the underlined part is flat out untrue. I do not sell rares. I profit nothing from their increased price. They cost me, not benefit me. I believe the goblin was over-nerfed, and should return more rares than it currently does (which kinda invalidates your point), and would like to see it restored to a more useful level (sans the wacky root fetish), as fetching rares is it's stated purpose (at which it currently, kinda fails). And I would like to see the price of rares come down some Edit: -> Not directed at Avianna. Directed at, well, everyone else But... The logic that "There's a very slim chance of refining to turn a common into a rare, thus it must be the primary purpose of the ability, thus it should happen more often, thus it produces too few rares", is circular and doesn't fly. Is it nice, sure, but that doesn't mean we're entitled to a conversion rate just because it launched with a conversion rate that was unintendedly nice. That again is rather circular reasoning. Refining Rares -> Pure Rares is the ability. Refining Commons -> Vendor Sellable Slag is the ability. Refining Commons -> Rares is a bonus event. No matter folks try to argue, reason, or interpret the AA description otherwise. It does, even post nerf, exactly what sony has said it would do, every time.
It does not do what it says, nowhere in the description does it mention slag. So every time it makes slag instead of a pure harvestable it is not doing what it says it does. So how you twist refines raw harvestables into pure harvestables translates into refines raw harvestables into vender sellable slag is beyond me. regardless of what sony says the description is false to what it does. as far as the part directed toward me specifically, I could care less whether you do or do not sell rares that's your business, I AM stating that is one major reason why some of these people do not want the ability to change. I am also stating that I want the ability to change for the reasons I have outlined, mainly the refine a stack at a time. However, none of this is worth a hill of beans because there are multiple posts open about this and not one of them has a red name even bothered to say hi; and with the obvious ignorance that testers got when trying to tell the devs about the broker bug before it went live I put no trust in SOE's ability to listen to their customers.
Sounds about right to me. I believe the Goblin returns are a bit low but originally they were too high (Since this is a joint topic on many boards). Also that refinement is closer to its intended use now.There is some truth to the negativity that some are defending the full nerf of both skills because they are profiting, though not all are like this. For clarity here is the skills description. Refine (Rank 1) Refines raw harvestables into pure harvestables. An equipment item crafted with a pure primary component will have higher attributes. Higher tiers of this ability will lower the cooldown. To pick this apart because the confusion is coming form this line. "Refines raw harvestables into pure harvestables" is misleading some, though this is wordier I feel the following would clear it up. "Refines common harvests into vendor sellable items with the chance to return a purified harvest. Rare harvests have increased chances to refine into purified harvests." The rest of the description is fine and accurate. Equipment gains bonuses for using Purifieds and the higher ranks lower the cooldown. Bottom line for me. Goblin should be upped only minor amount the amount should lay close to half the rare harvest rate of players imo. Refining is doing what it is supposed to now which is refining rares to purified rares at a somewhat reliable rate (I estimate 50-75% range) and it turns commons into vendor-able slag though I think given the markets the Low-Quality slag is selling for too little by comparison to dropped trash you could sell 1K and not see a platinum which is almost the base coin now for lvl 90-95 items. ~50 gold for an HQ slag is fine I think LQ should be 1gp meaning 2p per stack of 200 (800 clicks if you are meticulous you can make money especially at the rate you can harvest). Refinement's utility is turning Rares into Purified with a LOW chance to make a common into a rare.
Nowhere does it say it converts commons into rares. So, the same argument applies (or not), equally. But... ... we're arguing at least three different subjects intertwined. On this point, the main subject of the thread, the OP's suggestion, we agree. Everything else is a side issue. And on this, we agree as well. If we better knew the developers intent either way, if they would comment or clarify, the entire argument goes away on both sides. I'm only going by what the developers said about the ability before CoE launch. One of the most annoying things they do, is let is spin uncontrolled in the forums, on any subject.
so to agree re-word the description to be more clear (It does not say rare either by your post but it does say pure harvestable and I have yet to find any other pure harvestable other than the rares.), up the ability to a stack at a time, and get the devs to agree to all of this as well and change it, oh yeah and up the gobby return a smidge. Everyones happy right?
Pretty much what I proposed . I really think the issue is in the wording not the action. People are reading it and expecting something they are not getting so they are reasonably sad/upset. +1 on the Gobbie too he got a little too far down there for an ability focused on rare gather chance.
Why purify rares then? The skill was made to allow SoE to boost crafted gear in an attempt to make it more useful. Without refine + experimentation, MC gear would be completely worthless (as it stands it isn't worth much). But that would not be Refining. Even the skills name suggests turning one type of metal into another was never the primary purpose of the skill. The skill would need to be renamed to alchemy.
Is that necessarily a bad thing? You still get purified rares at a decent rate. You also get the chance to as others have said "turn lead into gold" wait... that's Alchemy well doesn't seem like an issue to me(The getting a rare chance to get a rare from a raw, not the confusing description) Alternatively Refined Raws yield Purified Raws i.e Purifying a Rhenium Ore yields a Purified Rheneium whereas refining and Tungsten ore would yield a Purified Tungsten thus "refining" both. Keep the rare chance to turn a Common into a Rare.
The current skill we have now is not "refining" as we know it in the world today. When we "refine" in the real world we actually end up with more than what we started with not less. but regardless you have chosen two points that are both irrelevant to prove anything toward your thoughts of how it should be. So I guess my query is what was your point?
Um, what? In every facet of the real world, if you refine something, you get less of it than your raw material. In the process of refining, you take some impure substance and remove the impurities to get a refined product. In the process of this refining, you lose the pieces that made your product impure, as they aren't worth anything. If you're going to compare this to the real world (which is lolz-y in the first place) then please at least be accurate.
The point is .. the Skill is designed to make gear better. This is why it makes purified rares. Getting rares from commons was just tagged onto the skill and is not its primary purpose. You refuse to accept this for whatever reason, but that does not make it any less true.
No, Jesdyr the skill has nothing to do with making gear better. It is the same concept as refining fuel has nothing to do with building cars. They are two separate things it's primary purpose is to take harvests and make them better.
Opeij I do know what I am talking about, you may look it up if you like. Fact: Refining in real world nets MUCH higher results than what are in game. and I quote: Figures are based on 1995 average yields for U.S. refineries. One barrel contains 42 gallons of crude oil. The total volume of products made is 2.2 gallons greater than the original 42 gallons of crude oil. This represents "processing gain." /end quote.
you've contradicted yourself, by stating that making gear better isnt the function and that making rares better is you are saying that it's function is to make gear better since you only gain from refining if the refined rare is used to create an equipable item or someone else purchases the refined rare off you in order to create an item with superior stats. you are basing this gain on dilutation + added materials not the base mass of the pre-refined material(including anything added present in the refiend product) compared to the total mass of the finished product and loss of materials/mass in the conversion.
In more "solid" terms, I considered it more like smelting metals to separate impurities, or gemcutting. Raw gem materials are fairly inexpensive, but the quality found inside can vary significantly, and the cut can make a huge difference.
No, I did not contradict myself, I said that you do not go car shopping at a fuel refinery. In the same way you do not use the refine ability to make your gear better. The fuel companies only gain from their products because people buy fuels. The refine ability is kind enough to describe what to do with your refined product. Real life fuel company's have a belief that the general public is smart enough to know to put it in their car rather than to use it as cooking oil, for some of the general public this over credit of their intelligence has proven fatal. The fact still remains that the usable product from refining is greater than the original material used to create the products. It is for this reason why we have gas in the first place instead of everything running on diesel which happens to be the "slag" from refining. again though mute point to the original statement, if refining in real life results were as poorly chanced as they are in game currently we would not be doing it but rather find other methods that netted better returns. such as building engines that ran on the unrefined products or different products all together. I think it is rather safe to assume that most everyone knows that fuel contains additives, that is not the point. So again gentleman, please provide something useful to the thread about how you would make the design of the ability refining rather than picking at bones to chew on that do not really relate when taken out of context and you cannot defend.
The idea of refining a common raw material into a purified common raw material is probably the best suggestion I've seen for refining yet, if they want to add the bonus ultra rare chance of refining a raw material into the purified rare that's fine. However, I don't feel it is something which should be used as a primary source of obtaining purified rares, which is what asking for the ability to refine stacks of 200 common materials at a time would turn it into. The people who have said those who agreed with the refining nerfs are the ones who are greedy, are generalizing way too much. The people who want to be able to take the stacks of raws their guild harvesters, pony's, and goblins bring back and convert stacks at a time into rares are the ones who want something for nothing. And it's stupid to think that greed only exists on the side of those who think the common to rare conversion was too high before.
