Rampage Delta

Discussion in 'Berserker' started by ARCHIVED-CherobylJoe, Sep 16, 2005.

  1. ARCHIVED-Pin StNeedles Guest

    5-10g for an App IV is a big investment?
  2. ARCHIVED--Aonein- Guest

    I dont usally invest in minor upgrades, its ethier Adept I / Adept III or Master I.
    There is currently a Master I Rampage for 6pp atm on EF server, but im not sure if i want to fork out 6pp and then see the skill get nerfed down the track.
  3. ARCHIVED-tnefoote Guest

    Aww c'mon! Where's your sense of adventure :smileywink:
  4. ARCHIVED--Aonein- Guest

    Well i decided to use the force and upgrade to Adept III.:smileysurprised:
  5. ARCHIVED-Zealbourne Guest

    [IMG]

    Dont get me wrong I love my rampage, but I did suspect it was facing its own death.
  6. ARCHIVED--Aonein- Guest

    Huh? Facing its own death?
    I think people need to step back and look what a Wizard can do every 45 seconds over a 3 min period. Its well over 35k damage just with Ice Comet alone, not too mention what he can cast in between waiting for Ice Comet to repop, and thats on a constant basis. Then take a look at Assassins and look at what they can do in one hit on a constant basis.
    Rampage is regulated to group mobs, its situational, its only constant if you go hunt down those group mobs to make it look over powered.
    Besides all that, what lvl are these mobs?
    What they need to do is stop Rampage procing off our AoE abilitys and make it only proc off pure melee auto attack, it seems to me that there is a bug with the way its procing of our AoE's unless your parser needs to be updated.
    Message Edited by -Aonein- on 09-22-2005 11:57 PM
  7. ARCHIVED--Aonein- Guest

    One last thing, ive noticed a hell of alot of group encounters are not Heroics now, just because they have 4+ mobs in them dont make them heroic, so people need to take a closer look at what there fighting. Its not there level that makes them heroic or the amount of mobs in the group, its the amount of HP and damage out put the encounter has.
    Rampage only made up 48.48% of that fight, a little under 50% and hits percent ratio was 68% indicating it is getting Block, Dodged and Parried. You only did 4362 damage total, thats to 2 mobs, so lets say you did 2181 damage per mob by just Rampage alone, does that make a Wizard who can one shot these same mobs to death with one Nuke overpowered? No. Also, how did you manage to fire off everything you did in that fight in less then one second? Parser started parsing at 01:58:10 and ended at 01:58:10 and you managed to fire of Rampage, Slaughter, Furious Assualt and your Weapon Guard, i mean yeah you could run in with all these blazing, but there is no way the fight would last a milli second. I mean look, the mobs even got attacks off, they cant do that in a milli second. The lunatic even got a CA off.....
    What id like to start seeing is less of these Rampage are overpowered posts that are being done on solo encounters, and do some tougher mobs, like lets take group mobs out of the equation, because we all know that the game doesnt have only group encounters. Throw some lvl 55 ^^^ Heroic fights up here, or lvl 55 ^^^ Heroic group encounters, or even lvl 55 ^^ Heroic group encounters, stuff that requires 3 or more people depending on lvl.
  8. ARCHIVED-Zealbourne Guest

    Heh, often with you I find myself explaining what seemed simple enough to say in one sentence. I am sure / certain / 100%positive, that we Berserkers ie:Tanks,middle-lower melee damagdealers were not expected to do 8k of damage or 40+total blows in the first second of any combat(in my case the only second). Much less to 3 level 55 solo mobs. So, in conclustion I would say it was only a matter of time before rampage(much to my loss of joy) would be nerfed/corrected/lowered. Will we be able to stand up against wizards or warlocks? Foolishness, we were never meant to. Now let me know if somehow in any measure of what I wrote this time difficult to comprehend.

    My Rampage like 70%+ of my skills for T5 are master. The reason I recieved all of those additional attacks is because my opening aoe have 3 chances to rampage, my stance also proced 3 more times to rampage, my melee swing proced 1 chance to rampage, and i believe i had a reactive attack for one more. Each sucessful landing proc of rampage then in turn did an aoe attack on 3 targets. Some of them didnt inspire procs and about 60% of them that did proc landed. In hindsight our AoE new stance has pretty much replaced rampage(as a symbol for berserker aoe melee damage) as a steady flow of aoe power instead of an hourly massive burst. As a premiere raiding berserker I would recommend that the damage be lowered about 20-40% and that its proc only occur on pure melee swings and not single or aoe or reactives. Or Its damage be lowered and timer increased.
  9. ARCHIVED-konofo Guest

    The art has changed at least four times since this time last year, and twice in the recent past. They've even given us a second art which does roughly the same thing, minus the 10-proc limit.

    With all that in mind, I think it's reasonable to assume the designers are aware of the spell and how it functions, and its continued existence is enough validation for me. If it is revisited again, so be it, but I can only imagine it would result in some severe tuning-by-sledgehammer overcorrection (like we saw in early 2004), not the fine-tuning you're hoping for.

    najena.konk
  10. ARCHIVED--Aonein- Guest


    OMG i hate time outs grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr, deleted my whole post. Ok ill keep this short.
    Im not even a "premiere" raiding Berserker and i already suggested they make Rampage proc off Melee auto attack damage only.
    How many groups do you group with that let you drag them all over the country side to only take on group encounters because of 1 CA? None, they would get sick to death of it and and just tell you to kill everything you see, ^^^, ^^, group encounters, you name it. Now also add into the picture there making the Dungeon areas the place to be for loot and majority of them have lock out timers. Now with in these dungeon zones, how many do you see today with group encounters all through the entire zone? None. Maybe the named mobs are group encounters, but there ^^^ group encounters, not above group solo mobs that are just asking for a beating.
    Now here is a sceanrio for you. How about they leave Rampage as it is, make it proc of melee auto attack damage only and competely stop it from procing off our CA's. This will stop it from doing what you see here for example doing 25 procs on a 2 mob encounter, an extra 5 procs when it should only be doing 20 procs or 10 per mob.
    So lets say for example we have a 2 mob encounter, thats 20 procs, with a 70% success rate ( all depending on lvl of course ) making it only 14 procs out of 20. Thus no need to do anything to the skill itself damage wise but make it a auto attack damage proc only.
    Now the beauty off having the auto attack damage proc only is it gives people who Dual Weild more of a purpose. Why? Because at the moment people have trivialised a 2 hand weapon for a Berserker because the slower the weapon is the more you will proc your AoE's, and also other class Spells and Arts they cast on you. A person who Dual weilds will have a higher chance of firing off all 10 procs in 36 seconds then a person who weilds a 3.8 delay a second wep. thats even if they can hit successfully 10 times with a 3.8 second wep in 36 seconds, but the benefit for weilding such a slow delayed weapon is in the amount of Procs that can be done, the beauty of dual weilding is in the amount of hits that can be done, from auto attack damage and Rampage.
    Do you honestly think SoE have made the Berserker class to revolve around 2 hand weapons when we can use every single weapon that is out there? "Foolishness" comes to mind. Not everyone wants to play a trivialised class and get told he isnt performing his duites as a Berserker correctly because he isnt weilding the slowest 2 hand wep he can get his hands on, what a joke.
    Its quite clear that from your gear and the way you speak about yourself being this "premiere" Berserker that most people out there will only be able to dream about having the gear you got. Clearly an elitest trying to indicate what is best for the class because he is overpowered from his gear. I would love to see a everyday Berserker who doesnt even have a full set of Ebon let alone a few Adept III's if he has any to do what you are doing. Go try the skill on some higher lvl mobs then yourself, for example if your lvl 55, go try lvl 56 group, then a lvl 57, then a lvl 58 and maybe even a lvl 59 encounter, then post us the parse info on what the hit percent ratio against all these are. I bet it gets less and less. Not to mention the amount of ripostes you would be taking off them because there classed as melee hits which you can take a riposte from them no problem what so ever.
    If you ask me, the CA has been changed enough over the last year, we went for a huge period were it did nothing what so ever and i find it funny that now people are saying its overpowered, If only some of these people seen what it was doing Last christmas, my my, you have no idea of overpowered.
  11. ARCHIVED--Aonein- Guest

    Totally 100% agree with you Konofo.
    They changed the way it works not even a week ago by turning it into a melee based attack which can be Riposted, Blocked, Dodged and Parried now and made it so every hit you do consumes power with it. If it was overpowered it would of been nerfed right there and then.
  12. ARCHIVED-Pin StNeedles Guest

    Well, firstly Zealbourne's parser screenshot is on a 3 mob encounter, not 2. There were 25 out of 30 procs, because the mobs died before Rampage completed. Not hard to see if you look at Slaughter hitting 3 times, for example.

    Secondly, changing it to proc only off auto-swing will make virtually no difference, except that it'll take longer to run its course. It will still have the same number of procs, and still give the same damage except it will be spread over a longer time period, and further, it unless you absolutely have to fire the damage off in 3 seconds, a 2H weapon will still beat DW due to other procs (I would rather use a 2H and only get 8 Rampage procs if it means I have 5x the number of Furious Assault procs in the duration). Best case is you'll switch to DW for the 3 seconds Rampage is active, then switch back. I actually posted about how to balance the proc rates of DW vs 2H back 4/5 months ago, but that wasn't heeded, so I (and any other fighter concerned about DPS) will continue to use 2H whenever possible, rather than be a martyr to DW.

    Thirdly, who said anything about dragging a group around to look for AE encounters that you can solo in 2seconds? Nobody does that, and why should they when it's on a 3minutes timer? You just camp your group wherever and kill whatever is there (which is usually a mixture of single-mob and AE encounters) and fire Rampage as a nice DPS boost whenever you like - in a group XP situation, it's generally just 3-15k extra damage every 3 minutes, which is nothing like the party-trick of 200k damage it was before April.

    Finally, what's with all the random ranting about gear/guild/playstyle? He didn't come here posting that he's better than you because he's wearing T5 fabled and you're wearing T5 treasured. He merely stated that with the right upgrades, he feels that his character does a little too much damage in relation to others, considering he's a tank, and that scales to whatever level you wish (i.e. I'm sure you can out-DPS an Adept I Warlock if you try - both in burst and extended fights).
  13. ARCHIVED--Aonein- Guest

    Pin StNeedles wrote:

    Well, firstly Zealbourne's parser screenshot is on a 3 mob encounter, not 2. There were 25 out of 30 procs, because the mobs died before Rampage completed. Not hard to see if you look at Slaughter hitting 3 times, for example.

    Secondly, changing it to proc only off auto-swing will make virtually no difference, except that it'll take longer to run its course. It will still have the same number of procs, and still give the same damage except it will be spread over a longer time period, and further, it unless you absolutely have to fire the damage off in 3 seconds, a 2H weapon will still beat DW due to other procs (I would rather use a 2H and only get 8 Rampage procs if it means I have 5x the number of Furious Assault procs in the duration). Best case is you'll switch to DW for the 3 seconds Rampage is active, then switch back. I actually posted about how to balance the proc rates of DW vs 2H back 4/5 months ago, but that wasn't heeded, so I (and any other fighter concerned about DPS) will continue to use 2H whenever possible, rather than be a martyr to DW.

    Changing it to proc off melee auto damage makes all the difference, not only will it effect your percent chance to hit with the CA because your not relying on your AoE's to fire it for you but especially when people have been procing more then 10 times. I knew this idea would get the 2 hand kings in a bunch because it doesnt cater towards them.

    3.8 second delay wep you would have 9 chances to hit succesfully in a 36 second period, with the way the new combat changes are with Block, Dodge and Parry id say you would land 6 maybe 7 of those, then Rampage itself also has a chance to Blocked, Dodged and Parried yet again. This would significally lower the percent chance of Rampaging being effective for 2 hand weilders, but thats the price you pay for extra proc ratio. Auto attack DPS wise, a 2 hander is now equal t o the same tier and quaility as Dual Weild, so all it comes down to know is the proc ratio. Dual weild is left out of the equation.

    Thirdly, who said anything about dragging a group around to look for AE encounters that you can solo in 2seconds? Nobody does that, and why should they when it's on a 3minutes timer? You just camp your group wherever and kill whatever is there (which is usually a mixture of single-mob and AE encounters) and fire Rampage as a nice DPS boost whenever you like - in a group XP situation, it's generally just 3-15k extra damage every 3 minutes, which is nothing like the party-trick of 200k damage it was before April.

    Generally 3 -15k damage on group mobs compaired to a Wizard / Warlock who can do over 35k damage in any 3 min period on a constant basis and that makes Rampage over powered? Assassins doing over 10k a hit, i could go on but im pretty sure you know how much damage the class's do by now.


    Finally, what's with all the random ranting about gear/guild/playstyle? He didn't come here posting that he's better than you because he's wearing T5 fabled and you're wearing T5 treasured. He merely stated that with the right upgrades, he feels that his character does a little too much damage in relation to others, considering he's a tank, and that scales to whatever level you wish (i.e. I'm sure you can out-DPS an Adept I Warlock if you try - both in burst and extended fights).

    Never mentioned his Guild or playstyle. By the way im in mostly Legendary, so id say im a bit better off then the averge joe.

    The adjustments that are done to you are done to everyone, its not a one sided issue, it never is when balancing something out. And no if the Warlock / Wizard knows how to play his class, he can out dps me np.

    One thing should be pointed out though and thats in these fights, any class can solo these fights. My wifes Templar solos the lvl 50 group encounters in Sinking Sands. So does my friend with his Wizard, its not like Rampage makes the encounters trivial and its not like u can do it on a constant basis ethier with no downtime.

    Do you see anyone on the forums or in game saying " [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] Rampage is overpowered now "? No because the mobs you fight with a group of people rampage hardly has a impact on them. Most people wouldnt even notice it unless they parsed it.
  14. ARCHIVED-Pin StNeedles Guest

    Haste. Berserk Procs (which incidentally happen more frequently with a 2H). 10 auto-attack swings take more like 20 seconds with a 3.8sec weapon. With a 70% hit-rate, it's 32 seconds. (Or less if you're grouped with a Bard/Chanter).
    Nothing will be changed with respect to the damage being dealt, and you'll still have more damage output with a 2H during that time.
    And as I posted before, the only thing that needs to be done to balance proc rates between DW and 2H is to make the chance of procs firing from a combat art be independent of weapon speed and type.
  15. ARCHIVED--Aonein- Guest

    What they need to do is lower the rate a slow 2 hander procs CA's wether they be your own or from other class's, because if you dual weild and run a parser, the game when dual weilding is fine, its balanced. You cant do what you can do with Dual weilds when using a 2 hander.

    The problem isnt Rampage being overpowered, Rampage on a 3 min timer vs group mobs is fine, the problem is 2 hand weapons procing so much is whats making the Berserker overpowered not Rampage, just look at how many time Furious Assault proced in that log even after Rampage had finished.

    The other thing they need to do is stop CA procs from procing of other CA's like Berserker Assault, Slaughter, Weapon Guard, Frenzy etc etc, they should make our AoE procs based off auto attack damage like i mentioned before, this is one way to adjust the rate it procs for a 2 hand weapon because people who weild two hand weapons rely on there AoE CA's to proc other AoE's and other CA's.

    The chance to fire procs from combat arts is already based of weapon speed, take a set of 1.2 second delay duals for example and parse then against a set of dual leafblades that are 2.1 second delays, then parse those against your 3.8 second 2 hand wep. The difference is huge, and thats what is unbalanced, they need to slow down the proc rate from slow delay weps.

    I can proc Furious Assualt 3 times with a set of fast dual weild weps, 8 times with a set of leafblades and as many as 15+ times a fight with a 2.9+ second wep. Thats more then 100% each delay difference. Not talking about Rampage here, im talking about Furious Assault, now add in other abilities that a group can add to you and parse the difference between fast and slow weps, and the difference isnt marginal, its unbalanced.
    Message Edited by -Aonein- on 09-25-2005 03:05 PM

Share This Page