rofl, agreed. I have always said: A good swash can joust without losing noticeable dps. A worse swash stands in AE range knowing he can't survive. A better swash doesn't need to joust.
Dakkon_1007 I joust AEs and never pull aggro so survivability isn't really an issue for me. I'd rather do 1300-2000 dps than be a sub par tank. That's the crusaders job... Crusaders are not sub par tanks. They are great tanks. Depends on the player.1300-2000 DPS is what I am missing for going the STR / STA route when i do lets see 1250-1600 this way. Not worth the trade off imo for that little bit of a boost in DPS over what a rogue is possible of gaining. Cocytus have always said: A good swash can joust without losing noticeable dps. A worse swash stands in AE range knowing he can't survive. A better swash doesn't need to joust. Jousting isn't needed in most situations especially for a Debuffer. I can't think of a time I go below 50% health on the big AE's. Overall I just find it hilarous when someone says a TRUE raiding swash since that is the class thta I play is specced to STR / WIS. because that 'should' give them the best DPS. It is just funny how many people in this game are one way thinkers and are afraid to tink outside the box (That goes for more then just this topic)
Sir, there is only one way to do things, and you must accept it or you will be put in stocks and later hanged.
No there is not. There is many ways to do many things in this game and in real life. There are very few things that can only be done one way. If there was only one way to do things then the game would be boring. Lets take the ring event in blackscale as an example. 4 mobs in there you have to have engaged at one time while you are unable to kill any of them until all 4 seals have spawned. Then you are able to kill seals to trigger the named. Is there only one way to do this ring? No there isn't. There are several way. Some easier then others.
you do realize he was just kidding... Stam is your choice, and you like it. But it is not ''the best'' raiding swash AA setup. You need to choose the setup that is best for YOU, not for everyone else, so of course there is no ''best'' setup. Wisdom / strength is currently considered best because it covers what a swash does in a raid, debuff/dps. Swashes aren't supposed to take hits in raids, that just wastes healer power. Besides, most AE's damage are up to your resists, not your mit, so sta is no help. Stam may be good on and off raids, but a wis/str swash will always be better solely on a raids.
Beg to differ on the AE damage type. A LOT of them are against crushing, piercing, or slashing. And those are REALLY annoying, because you can't up your mitigation (crush / pierce / slash) for relatively little money like you can your "proper" resists. Even a newbie raider like me with relatively crappy gear can walk around with 8K Heat resists; but the "melee AE" will just pound me into dust (ie I get whacked for 7K a pop). Zones like Halls of the Seeing are filled with mobs like that
I dunno, the AE's that I usually find myself threatened by is the type akin to the gazers in DT when I dun have a healer with that sort of group cure in group. If I got a say a warden on gazers, I never worry, but besides the fluke times when the healer of some reason doesnt get me up in HP before next one I cant recall when a melee AE did me in last time. Its DoTs that concerns me mainly and is my private raiding 'fear'.
Yup there is no best. WIS / STR is considered the best because that is the route most rogues went. If most went AGI / INT we could all argue that, that line is considered the best. WIS line has no debuffs as you know already and that is our primary purpose on a raid is it not? Guess us rogues who chose to go the STA line or non WIS line aren't mssing anything vital except a little possible gain of DPS. Every class is meant to get hit at one time or another. 95% of the time no one except the MT should be taking a hit. There are many more things that waste healer power. STA is very much help even if not for hte Mit. STA line is good on and off raids. Correct but there is no way in hell you can say STR / WIS will always be better on a raid. that is just complete [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing bull[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]. ROFL at that.
You are very wrong on this assumption. Not all rogues just read the forums and follow. Some of us have actually tried multiple AA setups to see what works out best for us. Is it entirely conincdience that a lot of us went STR/WIS... I don't think so. And no, AGI/INT would never be argued as the best in the Swash forums. Swashes have the least problems with hate generation, out of all scouts, so there is little reason to look at INT. If you want to be different, awesome! That is exactly what the AA's are for, separate yourslef from everyone else.
That's funny, I thought I just said that. Tell me, how would having STA line on a raid be better than WIS..... ever? So you can be lazy and take AoE hits? Ummm if I was that lazy I would have rolled a brigand. There are no unjoustable melee AE's, and with 100% dps mod from group buffs, STA line is useless imo. I get much more grief from magic/stun/stifle AoEs, the slashing/crushing/piercing ones don't EVER bother me.
Magic / stun / stifle AEs are very annoying but they don't kill us (unless we get hit subsequently and the healer is still stunned /wink) "Melee" AE will not bother you if you have the gear for it. In my "family-raiding" guild, many melee get clobbered by it. You can only joust AE when it's one mob you're facing. The big problems arise when groups are pulled and all the mobs have AE. They aren't usually nice enough to fire them off all at the same time. To be honest, you can go for pure DPS if you have the gear to back it up. If you don't, you go for survival first. Dead swashy = zero dps.
I dunno why so many people are mentioning getting oneshotted by crush/pierce/slash AEs. I have enough mitigation without the stamina line, and enough health to not be oneshotted by those.... In fact, I haven't been oneshotted by AE's for months, save for a night where for some reason drakes in labs kept hitting me for 10k....Which made no sense. Their selective AE (the harder of the two AEs) typically only hits me for a very maximum of 4k. Aside from that...haven't been oneshotted since the first time I went to MOA4 without resist gear for the boss.
This is a pretty futile argument but here goes.. I dont tank with my swashy...why? because he's a scout, i have enough alts to do the things that THEY are good at then to try and do them all with one character. In a pinch a scout can tank yes. But as far as this conversation is going if you have the gear to survive AE's then sta is pretty much useless for a raiding swash. If you are in a small guild with a shortage of tanks and you need something for small groups etc, fine. But i just can not see anyone trying to argue that it has any place as a raid option. Debuffs are our main purpose? Perhaps, but somehow every one of us that are wis/str specced are hitting the top of the parse night after night which gives us a new purpse, which i think most of us are quite happy with! D P S!
Please... stam line for survival of AEs? Thats what gear is for! If you cant survive AEs betray so you dont get hit by them. I have absolutely no problem with melee based AEs, not a single one in game. The AEs you have problems with are resist based and those are easy to deal with... get some moonstones. I understand theres more ways then one to skin a cat but this thread says Raiding Swashy. If raid you have TWO purposes. To slow the damage the MT is taking and to put out very large amounts of situational dps. I dont care who says it or how many times... A swashbuckler will never be a successful raid mob tank.
KronickDTA This is a pretty futile argument but here goes.. I dont tank with my swashy...why? because he's a scout, i have enough alts to do the things that THEY are good at then to try and do them all with one character. In a pinch a scout can tank yes. But as far as this conversation is going if you have the gear to survive AE's then sta is pretty much useless for a raiding swash. If you are in a small guild with a shortage of tanks and you need something for small groups etc, fine. But i just can not see anyone trying to argue that it has any place as a raid option. Debuffs are our main purpose? Perhaps, but somehow every one of us that are wis/str specced are hitting the top of the parse night after night which gives us a new purpse, which i think most of us are quite happy with! No line has a place as a raid option. Every line has a place as a raid option. If I was specced the STR / WIS line then Debuffs would still be my main concern over DPS. That is why I personally rolled this class to be useful on a raid. Debuffs is one way to be vital. just for laughs so I can judge you on poorly you think of us who went the STA route.1- How do you think my DPS since I can talk for myself is? What do you think I average?2- What do you think the limits of a Swash tanking are whether yout hink they shoudl be a tank or not? Use zone mobs etc and I will list what I personally have done thus far.3- How much DPS do you think I possibly lose for not being specced with the STR / WIS? A 12 Gauge 007 Please... stam line for survival of AEs? Thats what gear is for! If you cant survive AEs betray so you dont get hit by them. I have absolutely no problem with melee based AEs, not a single one in game. The AEs you have problems with are resist based and those are easy to deal with... get some moonstones. I understand theres more ways then one to skin a cat but this thread says Raiding Swashy. If raid you have TWO purposes. To slow the damage the MT is taking and to put out very large amounts of situational dps. I dont care who says it or how many times... A swashbuckler will never be a successful raid mob tank. Slow the damage done to the MT - Check and done with Debuffs from a swashDeal very large amounts of damage to the mobs - Check (Even if specced with the STA line. I didn't take the STA line for AE survivability though).You still wouldn' believe it not EVEN IF Ishbu said it? Come on now he is god almightly and cannot be argued with cause he thinks he is always right. Certainly if he says it then it must be true. ROFL. Sorry i had to thorugh that in. How about if my mother said it? Moorguard, what about him?The question I asked above, it would be interesting to see your responses to them also. A lot of topic on AE atm. There is no AE I believe as a swashbuckler that will one shot you regardless of what AA lines you went down. P.S. Of all the words I mistype, i would have to think that 'the' is the most common.
So let me get this straight... you are STA line specced, you use dual wields when raiding, and you dodge the higher damage AE attacks? So in other words, you went down a complete AA list to get 13% more hp and 420 mit, and you don't even get hit hard while raiding? Yeah, that is worth giving up 500dps... /rolleyes. Look pal, I know you like your ''tanking swashy'' title, but it is just not practical for a raid setup. You can be a tank all you want in a group or solo, but when raiding we are dps, even more than we are debuffers. Yes, a dead swashbuckler does no dps, but I have never had trouble staying alive on a raid without the STA AA line. You can preach all you want about the wonders of the STA line, but face it; It is NOT a better choice than WIS for raiding.
It's a simple thing. On raids, we have two roles. Debuff, and DPS. STA line does not help with DPS as much as WIS or AGI or STR do. Therefore, a Swashbuckler who spent points in STA, given the same equipment/skill, will deal 5-20% LESS DPS then one who spent those points instead into WIS, STR or AGI. If your raid is advanced enough/well geared enough that it doesn't matter if you do 5-20% less DPS, then you can spec whatever you want. However, on difficult raids, that 5-20% DPS can make the difference, and in those cases a Swashbuckler speccing STA will be of LESS use to a raid then one that specced into something else.. I am not sure how to put this any more simply. Specialization is king in raids in any MMORPG, period.
I raid the Halls of the Seeing again last night and I need to report that with a lil better gear and a MUCH better group (ie the second MT group lol) I died only once to AE. I shall run ACT tonight to see if I got warded lots or if I resisted enough, but you guys made your point, I think. I won't go STA for AE now :smileywink:
