Raid Progression Halted due to HP Increase

I understand that the last fix to HP's was done with good intentions.
However you applied this fix 1 week into raid progression on the TLE Server.

Apart from the no.1 guild (who have mythicals) who can raid on a more hardcore schedule 5-6 days per week and who had already cleared most of VP, you have effectively ceased progression for the other raid guilds on Stormhold.

The other guilds, are not hardcore and over the last year have worked hard to pull together a raid team
I speak for Europa - EU Guild.

We have a good spirit between the guilds, we've lived through the KoS and other events which lost us countless guildies. But RoK felt good and it was FUN.

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Example:
We managed to reach VP after a 41 min fight with Levi - prior to the HP change (lucky for us right)
How the other guilds are meant to now beat this...?

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RoK was going well for raiding, yes Tier 1 was a little easy but I see this as positive for the server as a whole as it meant more and more casual guilds can get back to some raiding and keep the server alive with more guilds seeing some end content.

Gear Progression is for another thread completely and I agree it needs work but that will take time.

In the meantime I would ask that you reverse your last 'tweak'.

It was entirely unfair to add in that change to the raiding community albeit with good intentions.
We've tried it, it's not worked.

+1

This is silly. Spent pretty much an entire raid on Thursday trying to kill Drussk. Not only were Drussks hit points stupidly high but of course the adds had stupidly high hit points too. Making the entire fight just a bit ridiculous.

Let's assume we can muddle through Drussk, how are we or any other raid guild outside of Disturbance, who got most of their mythicals before this HP increase went live, ever going to manage to kill Nexona? That's assuming any other raid guild can even get past Leviathon now.

You've effectively broken raiding on the server with this change and it needs to be reversed right away.

not to derail, but we have a 4 night a week raid schedule and have the tenacity to still kill these mobs without our mythicals. never the less, a few nights and even a couple of weeks of pulling one mob to progress was a normal thing for eq2. It can still be done, but the progression of gear in VP mythicals aside is degression. If there were less of a fine line between group/solo content gear, t1/2 loot and VP loot actually being an upgrade the 40ish% HP increase is compromisable (sp?).

increase DPS mod cap and upgrade / reorganize T1 and VP loot tables. Epics and Mythicals are broken, damage spreads are backwards in low end damage of fabled vs mythical. There is much work to be done, but we have solutions and need more dev cooporation in order to keep an actual player base over time here on TLE

I totally agree. Yes, the heroic zones and the tier 1 raid zones are basically easy mode. BUT the HP changes should not have been blanket applied to the Tier 2/3 raid zones. They didn't need any tweaks, they were just fine as they were. I love a challenge, its fun to work together as a team to beat the mobs using the intended strats. But the fun disappears when the HP is stupidly high and you are either battering at stuff that just won't go down, or when the boosted HP actually breaks the encounter. And yes, I know the fact that Disturbance has taken stuff down in VP since the HP increase means that its "possible" to do it, its just not "probable" for others at the moment.

No. The zones are fine. It's gear progression that's the problem. There is already a detailed thread on this issue. Please fix gear progression. The scripted tweaks would I imagine take all of half an hour.

They aren't going to fix gear progression. 4 xpacs that has been getting asked for and it's not done. Put the HP's back for tier 2/3 raid mobs in the mean time while they debate gear progression.

It's already been explained how to do this in 10 minutes. They should.

Yeah but they aren't and currently raiding is broken on TLE.

I don't disagree with most of your post.

But you're killing Nexona in 40 minutes with mythicals.
More survivability, more DPS, more control, more everything, mythicals are huge - even if some have outdated prcos and broken pets.
There's a good chance a non-mythical raid mathematically can't outdps Nexona's broken heals.

Druushk we'll do, but it's like slugging through the mud, slow and painful and needlessly long.
Had we had the same conditions you guys did, it's dead.
Had Vindicate had the same conditions we did on Levi, it's likely dead too, Vindicate is in VP.

There is no line of reasoning that would somehow justify any one guild having to do content under different conditions from the rest simply because they began raiding two days earlier.

This is not aimed at Disturbance, noone is competing with them, and they're by far the most dedicated guild and the best.

But the other guilds are mostly made from people who raided everything in this game, spent time in top guilds, and most are now more motivated than for EoF or KoS (I know we are).
Give all the guilds same conditions, succeed or fail, is all we ask.
Disturbance will always be a class apart, but the rest will progress at a decent pace, enough to keep the guilds alive and interest.
Need an even playing field for that though.

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Gear fixes - IF they happen - will take time.

All we ask is that until that is done, HP is reversed back to the original values so we get the same chance at beating these encounters.

Who knows, maybe we don't do Nexona in the old/normal version.
But give us a fair chance to try.

Sooner, rather than later. BEFORE we start losing people.
There's no gear progression, raid progress is the only thing that keeps people interested.

Although I don't (at present) raid, I do remember having a blast raiding RoK back in the day. I also remember something else about the server that I believe started with RoK but has not happened on TLE, and it seems related to this issue.

Wasn't the original issue that had them "tweak" hit points because 80+ content was easier than 79 and under content?

I began EQ2 right as RoK was coming out originally. I remember groups of solo mob content actually being single, double, and sometimes even triple-downs tied together. Honestly I was surprised (and pleased) when this was not the case on TLE, it has been a real nice challenge, but it has meant that there are ^^^ mobs running around in what are rated as soloable quests.

Admittedly, geared out well, I can take a ^^^ on my fury or ranger, but it is very difficult and not always guaranteed.

I wouldn't mind, at this point, if the difficulty of the content started to match RoK back in the day. I suspect that's a server-wide adjustment to mitigation or HP or something, and would probably be a realistically easy fix due to the global settings that were announced shortly after TLE was spun up.

That would, I believe, simultaneously fix the raid progression.

This is the change that went in on Tuesday:

Yep and now raiding in T2 and T3 is broken and pretty much undoable. The hit points on mobs in T2 and T3 need to be put back the way they were before the patch.

The HP increases that DBG should have applied, were to HEROIC content only. It was true that a white con (lvl80) HEROIC mobs were easier to kill than blue con (<=79).
There was no need to touch the epic encounters.

/agree

Melee/ranged dps has been broken on TLE for 2-3 xpacks now.

Chanters are outparsing T1 scout dps in single target and encounters, heroic and epic.
Ranged attacks are being treated like melee as noted in another post.

The raid gear issue, well, that's another issue that deserves attention.
Itemization, yup, that's another problem.

They aren't nerfing HP's they are putting them back to a sensible amount. To the same amount the mobs had when you guys killed them. It's great you guys are so committed you all got your epics in 2 weeks but the rest of the server shouldn't be punished because we didn't.

As Nimrael said in a post earlier. If Drussk had had the same amount of HP's as it had when you guys killed it first then we would have killed it on Thursday. I don't care what anyone says but that is just not fair to other progression raid guilds.

Of course I meant mythicals in 2 weeks not epics.

It's the same every Xpac. The devs let Disturbance get their gear, then they change everything so that no one else else can.

It's not Disturbance's fault, and noone is blaming them for anything.
Only thing we can ask of them is to push for the same thing from the devs, reverse the HP buff until gear is fixed.
Because it's only fair and for the sake of the entire raiding community on the server.

And for any dev reading, don't wait with this - please.
In an expansion lasting 3-4 months, waiting a few weeks or whatever to review this will lose every guild players, the momentum will be lost and interest will drop.

As its been mentioned, the gear progression has been basically dead on this server since forever.
Fine, a number of guilds survived to RoK and things were looking up.
For once, people are motivated enough to raid - but that's gonna go away fast if this HP buff stays in the game and progression is halted.

I can't speak for other guilds, but RoK had us interested more than KoS and EoF. We took it more seriously, put aside more time for raids, and we were in VP pretty quickly, did everything we tried on the first night.
People know these zones and encounters, with no gear progression, you take a bit of time to get used to the mob and either do it or not.

I don't see any logical reason why we should then fight mobs with 40% more HP (and their adds more HP, and TLE heals, etc.) simply because we (or other guilds) started raiding 2-3 days later. It's pretty ridiculous, to say it mildly.
But again, none of this is on Disturbance, but on DB and their HP buff - whether it was intentional or not, it broke raid progression and made things uneven across the board.

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It's been mentioned all over the boards, gear progression needs fixing, mythical procs and pets need fixing - 100% agreed.

But again, until that is done, reverse the HP buff, let us all raid under the same conditions - even if we fail.

And it should be done as soon as possible, to be honest.

Perfect for who exactly? Disturbance? who cleared VP before the HP buff went in and now all have their mythicals which helps kill the mobs not they have been buffed. Now is not a perfect time to be messing with class balancing. Return the T2 and T3 raid mobs hit points back to what they were when you killed them, then they can balance whatever they like.

Stop calling this an HP nerf, it's not an HP nerf. No one is calling fro a nerf. It's putting it back the way it was when you killed it, that's all.

Stop derailing the thread and turning it in to yet another itemization thread. This thread is about a very specific thing. Fix that and then talk about itemization.

We're not asking for a nerf, we're asking for a reversal to the original values and conditions under which you did VP initially.
Under which we did Leviathan initially, and Vindicate did not because they entered the zone two days later.

Yes, I would love the gear and DPS fixes across the board.

But now is NOT the perfect time to do it. Not with every other guild fighting these mobs without giving us a chance to get mythicals at their original values.

We have no extra DPS, no extra survivablity, no extra buffs or debuffs, no group manaflow, etc etc, without mythicals.
If you take 40 minutes on Nexona with them, why would anyone even want the other guilds to muddle on that encounter without mythicals?
Even with a perfect fight and getting incredibly lucky with the MT not dying 5+ times, it's highly questionable whether we can outdps the broken shiny heals on a mob that has 40% more HP.

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Again, reverse the needless HP buff. It broke encounters and is just flat out unfair to every guild that started raiding 2-3 days later into the expansion,
And do it ASAP before guilds start losing people.

And THEN - after they bring back original HP numbers - I'm all for fixing gear and DPS etc.

But leaving us (and other guilds) with overbuffed HP on mobs until that fix is in (if its ever in, which at the point I think is very doubtful) would be ridiculous and unfair, and I guarantee you would cause raiders to quit and possibly have guilds crumble in another KoS-like exodus.

You guys (Dist) said a bunch of times you cared not only about your own guild but about the raiding community as well. And I believe you because noone wants a dead server to raid on.

Well, I'm telling you this HP has quickly ruined the excitement we had in RoK, and there's this underlying feeling of how unfair it is that makes it even worse.
If it stays in, guilds will crumble IMO.