I guess I didn't get in on this in time (per usual). I did play around with the salvaging prior to the patch. 350 armor items salvaged. 6 rare ores. Not really seeing how that needed nerfed considering how unfriendly RNG can be. Factor in fuel costs and I was probably in the red vs just buying 6 off the broker. 200 woodworker items salvaged. 1 rare wood. Again, RNG hated me already so not seeing why this needed the chance rate lowered.
Ouch... though for me it felt a little more consistant. I never saw a lucky streak of 7 in a 200 item salvage... However i did feel like i averaged about 1 per 100... sometimes id get none out of 100 or 200... but then id get 2 or 3 in the next batch and kinda even it out. Again though this was pre patch. I can't speak to the current numbers.
Yeah, I like Mathrim was using this primarily to get the ridiculous number of rares needed to then refine and produce MC gear for alts. Removal of this method really just means I wont bother kitting them out with MC and will wait as I do heroics and find them gear. Just means my alts wont be available to support my guild groups and raids as quickly as before.
If this nerf wasn't put in to reduce the number of Quintessence what purpose does it serve and why do it. This was a legitimate plat sink that people didn't even complain about. I dropped 500 plat out of the game on fuels last night knowing it was going away. If the new poisons didn't require two rares for a poultry 10 vials that may or may not last me a single night I'd be less annoyed by this. But they do and until changes are made I will complain the entire expansion about them. Thankfully for the 500p I dropped last night I got 53 Hiven Roots that will last me a little while. Which at a salvage cost of around 10p each still cost me 20p a night to raid. But that's at least cheaper then the 25p per root cost on the broker = 50p a night to raid. Giant thumbs down on this nerf!
Yes, if I look at my sample size of over 30,000 salvages of hand crafted items, the average is close to 1:100 for a quint and 5:100 for a rare (pre-nerf). I'll probably do another 2k items this weekend and see what the results are, but it really isn't going to be cost effective any longer, cause now that the cat is out of the bag, the price of quints will quickly floor to 80-120p and giving fuel and time, won't be of any interest to me anymore. I did hedge my bets last night and bought up many of the rares that were below a certain price point with my expectation that a fair number of them had entered the market using this salvaging method, and the expected result that will have on the market should allow me to sell them for significantly more. But I'm betting on the number harvested vs crafted thus far.
Hah, with mass production it is not difficult to do these. I was mass producing 250 at a time then crunching them down, took maybe 10 mins to run thru them. Giving the profit margins, doing that 5 times a night since expansion was very worth while. It is easy to have a high sample size without automation. Removal of the ability to mass produce, and all this changes, only the botters could profit then.
These numbers are pretty similar to my findings. I was going to put the quint rate around 2% but that's just because of some lucky streaks. The rare rate definitely was around 5% but I'm guessing it has been dropped to match the quints at 1%. At a cost of 100 pp a round for a 1% chance at a rare every 15 minutes.......nah. I'll go harvest for 5 minutes for a rare, save myself 10 minutes, 100 pp, and put another feature of this game on my ignore list.
To be honest if the price of quints drops to 80 to 120pp as you predict id be a happy camper never having to mass produce/salvage again. Harvestable rares will become a different problem with this nerf however. Though I'm happier handing down gear from heroics than spending hours crafting and experimenting anyways so I guess for me that's also a wash. Now if only i could find one or ten of those War Essences or whatever their called cheapest one i've seen currently on the broker is over 4k.
Personally, I think Atan is overestimating the potential price drop for a couple of reasons. 1. The number of people willing to invest the fuel costs as well as the mind numbing boredom to go after quints to sell without the bonus of rares is few. Most people will do this just enough to get the quints they need for their toons and bail on salvaging. 2. Now that the information is out there, the market for quints will stabilize and the Player Merchants will come out to control the supply more aggressively. They will start buying up the cheap supply just like Atan did with the normal rares and fix a value for the time investment versus profit desire.
I'll be interested to hear your results. I have a sneaking feeling Caith's post is true but it's also a half truth. By that I mean while the formula to get a Q wasn't change it was neglected to say that formula is a secondary RNG after the initial RNG to see if you got a rare. So every time the RNG rolled and you could get a rare it does a second RNG to see if that rare is a Q. If my cynical feeling turns out to be true then the number of Q's salvaged will drop like a rock.
Lol. Not trying to ruin the mood for you. They will drop. That's for sure. Just how much won't be seen for a couple of weeks. In my opinion though, the negative nerf to the rare rate will far outweigh the positive of the news getting out about quints making them cheaper. At 5 to 10 rares per combine after refine, rare roots for poisons, etc., the costs for normal rares going up is going to suck.
I was thinking that the margin at 80-120p is enough to attract the botters to fill the demand since for them time is a zero and it simply the conversion of fuel to quints.
^^^ This 100% And i always had that feeling because as I was doing the mass produce salvage one my tailor while my son was doing it side by side on his woodworker due to the nature of the items i was breaking down the rare being returned was only Hiven roots. The woodworker on the other hand was returning Sapphire Bixbites and Lumium Clusters. over a large (Admittedly not as large as Atan's) sample size we noticed the woodworker finish with about half as many Quints but twice as many rares. Now after running 500 hundred salvages on the tailor that prior to the patch was returning about 5 quints give or take over that many salvages I have seen not a one. Now again. this sample size is even smaller than the few thousand we had done over the past few days, however i think that Crychtonn has hit the nail on the head and there is a second part to this formula that was not disclosed and is obviously playing a part in how many quints we will see going forward. that 80 to 120pp price is not going to happen i don't think. These will remain obscenely rare. time/plat per reward is not appearing to be nearly worth it.
Well, that's kind of a deception. When you salvage a rare you have a chance of getting a Quintessence instead. The patch lowered the chance of getting a rare when salvaging handcrafted; thus, the rate of getting a Quintessence was lowered. Semantically, you can say the chance of getting a Quintessence when you receive a rare was not modified. In practice, the chance we receive one will be fairly diminished. Unless, of course, you meant that we will receive Quintessences more often in the place of rares. I have my doubts.
Actually, that's completely incorrect. When you salvage, you roll on a table, that table has the commons, the rares, and the quintessence on it at certain weights. Decreasing the weight of the rare simply reduces the chance of receiving the rare, which in effect increases the chance to receive any other item on the table, such as a Quintessence. So while the weight of the Quintessence was not modified with this patch, your chances of receiving one has gone up.
*pulls out some math* If common was 80%, rare was15% and quintessencewas 5%, switching rare to 10% and common to 85% doesn't actually increase the chances of a quintessence, since it is still at 5%.
These are weight's, not percentages. So, for example you have A:20, B:10, and C:5, the system adds them together then rolls between min/max, if it got 1-20 you would get reward A, 21-30 reward B, 31-35 reward C. So if you reduce that 10 to a 1, you still get reward A on 1-20, reward B only on a 21, and reward C on a 22-26.
It's kind of like farting to win at a game of Twister, it works and you win but it takes the fun out of it
