AoM crafting has been very interesting. Almost everything in crafting was given a dramatic boost in performance. Also, everything was given a dramatic raise in costs, both fuel and materials. Armor, jewelry and weapons take 5-8 rares when they use to take 1. Fuel costs went from 10 to 75. Recipes that didn't require rares suddenly do. Oh, and after years of poison being so bad it wasn't worth using, its now a hot commodity again. And yet, for all the complaining, I'm actually longing for the days when poison was shunned by scouts. So from where I'm sitting the best course of action would be to remove rare poison from the game. Everybody is happy. No more rare materials, no more price gouging, every scout uses the "best" poison in the game, and I can safely ignore the resulting flame war because it won't happen here in the crafting forum. Win-win-win. Make it happen.
Increasing the cost of all foods, drinks and potions buy 100 times or more also increases the broker fee by that much. It also increases by another factor of ALL classes would be buying these items not just FOUR. Take that across every server and that adds up to a pretty damn big number. I'm not advocating things get changed to this simply pointing it out. I could care less about the increase in fuel cost from last tier. No one here that I remember has used that as a sticking point for this argument. Same with the increase in rares needed for master crafted armor and jewelry. Why? Because it's a cost that was given out equally to ALL crafters and ALL end users of the products made. I'm sure all the predators and rouges are glad to here you don't raid and don't give a crap about the quality of items you use in game. Thank you for stating so straight forwardly to everyone the only reason you're in this thread is to troll and because you want to make more plat off people. Feel free to leave this thread and put it on ignore. No one will miss you.
Like someone said... make it so the combine produces 25 and maybe make it so it uses only 1 hiven root. They are getting up to 100p at times. Right now on my server 55p for 1 then.. but ifyou need a stack of 10 you are going to spend 75. It takes 2 roots to make a stack of 10. And a stack of 10 is what I go through in a night of raid or heavy grouping. 150p per night is stupid.
I think Sony has this right. The poison and food has a hard core level and a average player level price, Leave it the way it is .
I've already stated in this thread I haven't made a single copper from poison in AoM. Its really funny how often the accusation comes that I'm arguing for my own benefit. I'm not. I am in favor of what is good for crafters. And what is good for crafters is a desirable product, customers that are willing to purchase and use products, and a reasonable cost. Well guess what? Rare poisons are desired. Check. Scouts are buying them, even at high prices. Check. Is the cost reasonable? From the point of view that they are in heavy use and it isn't just the top 1% of raiders but every raider and a lot of people that don't raid, Check. If you don't want me in this conversation, have it back in the scout forum. All I'm concerned with is tradeskills, and Lore and all this arguing has nothing to do with Lore. What is more, I've made a series of different suggestions on how to resolve all of this. And the scout response has been apparently that there is nothing that will satisfy them except puhishing everybody. Quite frankly, I really don't see why only 4 classes get poison anyways. So yes I'm fine with punishing "everybody". Lets open poison up to everybody and see who crys. I made that suggestion back on page 2 by the way. Y'all could actually remember what I say so I don't have to repeat myself every other post.
I have a great fix for this. Let all of us use poisons. Then we can all pay plat for 25% more dps and everyone will be equal
If poisons put rouges and predators 25% a head of all the other DPS classes you might have a point. It's doesn't and you don't. Poisons are a self target proc buff. The same as almost every other class gets. Except all those cost nothing. The damages may very a ton but so does everything else from class to class. The dirge poison line and the assassin apply toxin abilities are how all poisons should have been handled. As abilities not stupid consumables.
Ya do realize that Assassins are one of the 4 poison using classes, right? So if all poisons are handled like the Assassin class ability, then the 4 classes that can use poisons wouldn't get poisons. You keep calling for everybody else to take on the burden and cost that predators and rogues have. Well, if everybody else got the same benefit, they would definitely pay for it. Even with the existing mechanics where the scouts are heavily favored. Poisons are based on agility. Fortunately most of the equipment in the game includes agility on it, with the exception of a lot of pure caster gear that has only int/stamina on it. Well, mages don't really need a damage boost anyways. Still fighters and the non-poison using scouts would greatly benefit. Some priests would enjoy poison as well. And as you point out poison isn't make or break for the 4 classes that have it. Indeed until AoM poison was largely ignored by the scout community because it didn't scale well. Really, going to the crafting forum and asking for something to be made into a class ability instead of crafted? That is the same as going to any other class forum and calling for that class to be nerfed.
No, poisons dont put you 25% ahead of anyone. skill might do that for you, but poison wont. Poison does i bet comprise 25% or your dps though. So give me poison that will do 25% of my dps, and give it to every other class as well. Then we will all have to pay for it and your argument will be moot.
Meirril what class do you play? I'd like to know so I can start asking that I get one of your classes abilities. Before you respond think it through because that is Exactly what you and Hushnoob are asking for. Based on what you two are asking they should make all classes all get everyone's abilities. It's the only fair way as you put it. What are you even trying to say with that first statement?? Of course assassin are one of the four classes paying to play. How would changing a consumable poison into an Ability that proc'd poison damage mean they'd not get poisons. There's a good chance what ever class you play has a self buff that proc's damage. All I said was they could change poisons to work the same way and gave examples of how they already have that. And I'm not trying to get everyone else to have the same burden. I'm saying four classes shouldn't get forced into having a burden that 22 other classes don't.
Roll an alchie and harvest. Personally I think the drop rate of hivens should be increased dramatically. That would bring the price down of the poisons. Either that or double the amount made from the recipes.
I am an alchy and I harvest all my hiven.....but that doesn't lessen what I think to be an unfair burden to poison using scouts (myself included)......I think if we are forced to continue using hivens for poisons then the devs should increase the amount crafted from 10 to 50....I would say even more like increase to 100....but I'm trying to be realistic.....50 poisons instead of 10 would be a little easier to swallow.
Maybe increase to 20, plus increase duration. I don't know if I'm just going through some bad luck with harvesting, but in the last few weeks rares have been getting ... rarer.
Getting a little off track here, but if you really want to know currently I'm playing a paladin, warden and beastlord (for some god awful reason). I'm sure scouts would all appreciate any priest ability, though the only scout like ability you could get from a warden is their ability to add a damage proc to the group. Why you'd want anything from a paladin I wouldn't know. About the only thing a paladin does that everybody else would want is their damage reduction. Beastlords are a train wreck of a class and really need a lot more dev attention than the 4 classes mentioned, but this thread isn't about that is it? Little hint: Giving them poison isn't a fix for the lack of attention this class has received. While it is true that predators and rogues were designed with the idea that poison is a part of their dps, its been something that has been ignorable since Sentinel's Fate. Quite simply put poison hasn't been part of the calculations done by players for years. Now that poisons are back on the radar after years of being ignored, it really is like something completely new has been introduced to the game. It is that much of a change. I think your confused by the use of the word poison. So lets change the words a bit to be more clear. If all the crafted bonus using scouts were to replace their crafted bonus to dps with a class ability they already have, then they would just get an ability they already have and no crafted bonus at all. While I can appreciate that your trying to help scouts out here, your also trying to take away from another classes abilities. Namely your trying to steal poison recipes away from alchemists. As a crafter, your requests are growing more and more unreasonable. I don't mind the recipes becoming "cheaper". I don't mind the ingredients being shifted, fuel amounts changing, ect. I actually wouldn't mind if the rare using recipes were entirely removed from the game. I do mind getting poison recipes removed from my class. That is just as bad as going into any other class forum and calling for nerfs. Show a little respect. And I also certainly don't mind the idea of getting a larger customer base. Not only that, but poison useable by fighters and priests would help with the low DPS numbers those classes are known for. Thanks to the current way that wands are (not) working poison wouldn't really help with wands due to the low hit rate. Also due to general itemization the lower agility of mages would mean when they do proc poison it wouldn't do as much for them. As a nod to scouts, if poisons were flagged to be used by all classes the damage scouts get from poison could be doubled to signify that scouts use poison better. A lot of the arguments in this thread has been how much of a burden poison prices are to scouts. Lots of "if you only felt my pain" arguments and how food should cost the same because that would be fair. Now that the argument to spread poison around to other classes is getting seriously pushed there is a denial that the argument was made. Hopefully all of this has served to give scouts something to think about and maybe they can clarify what they want and make an argument to support their desires. I think I've made a fairly good argument for poisons to be opened up to all classes. I don't expect it to happen, but the argument behind it is solid.
Meirril an FYI 1) I and an alchemist and have been since the game started. I made my toon one off the bat so I could and still can make my own poisons. I also have four other max crafters. 2) Go read my original post. It was a simple request to change the primary component for poisons from Hiven Roots to Incandescent Materials. That change alone would put the cost of poisons back where is should be. 3) If you gave poisons to everyone. What are you going to give rouges and predators to make up for it? By that I mean you just gave every other class a significant DPS boost. But rouges and predators are at the same place they were before DPS wise. If you can't figure out that's messed up I don't know what to say. My last few post I did change what I'd asked for. Why not, all the people jumping in with their own crazy talk. Figured I'd join in. Besides last I checked your warden doesn't have to pay to use his best group heal. Your Pally doesn't have to pay for his damage reduction does he? Beastlords, ya they are jacked up and need some love. But back when they were Tier 0 DPS destroying everyone else did they have to pay the price for that? No. But in your mind it's perfectly fine that predators and rouges are forced to pay that price and even with paying it that doesn't make them the best. It only makes them competitive.
Hmm...what did I propose? Making any rare the primary component for poisons. Making the primary component vendor sold. Opening up poison to all classes. I think that was it, but I might of made a few more proposals that I don't really remember. I'm against incandescent materials for three reasons. The first reason is the design of AoM crafting says "great improvement at great cost". If top tier poison isn't going to be outrageously expensive, why is it better? Seriously consider that. Maybe the real fault here is that top tier poison isn't a raid drop. Harvesting is open to all players, and it is an open supply. Everybody can generate hiven roots. Switching the top tier poison to crafting has opened them up to all players and any playstyle, but at a cost (which is actually much lower than raid drop poisons have ever been, but lets not go there). The second reason I'm against it is the drop rate of incandescent materials is lower than the drop rate of rares! With rare harvest chance you can get 6% rare drop rate all the time (+2% with a potion), incandescent materials is a fixed 2%. While they drop from all nodes, that just means there is a fixed rate of how fast you can bring them into the game. Introducing a major drain of incandescent materials into the game will result in the price skyrocketing with no way to resolve the issue. Trying to farm more will be 1/3rd as effective as trying to harvest more roots. The third reason I'm against it is the use of incandescent materials. They are used in every Xiocite recipe. So if the price of incandescent materials goes up to 10p you've added 10p to the cost of every piece of every Xiocite ring, belt, cloak and weapon. So, do you want to share the pain, or not? As for where the price should be, maybe if the poison is doing 25% of your DPS it is priced where it should be. Back in the days you were paying a few gold for poison it was at best 10% of your DPS and that was a long, long time ago. As for messing up the 4 current poison using classes by effectively taking poison away from them: Poison shouldn't "fix" your class. You want to address the gap between scouts and sorcerers that is perfectly understandable. Poison shouldn't be your fix, class abilities need to be addressed. Opening up poison to other classes is more of a response to all the whining about cost. Other classes with fundamental dps problems would love to have the predator's option to pay for more dps, so why not give it to them? I even threw in a concession that poison should work twice as well for scouts. If you really want poison something made by crafters to be 25% of your class and your great salvation I'm not the one with a problem. At most poison should contribute a 10% improvement. I'm not saying poison needs to be nerfed, if anything general scout dps need to improve to where the current poisons are less of their overall DPS. But this is tradeskills, this is not the place to fight for that. And quite frankly if it isn't about crafting or lore I don't care.
OK so you are perfectly fine with them changing poisons to cost 100 times more then they did before but then you say it's unfair if jewelry costs go up. This is what you are saying isn't it. That is beyond hypocritical. And your logic on it is terrible. I get plenty of incandescent materials from sending out the gathering goblin. It's why I suggested it as a replacement. Because they are extremely plentiful. If they were used for poisons there'd be a minor increase in the broker cost at best. Most poison using scouts would send out there gathering NPC or use the guild hall NPC's and never have to buy or harvest them. And Tradeskill is exactly where a thread should be when it concerns something made tradeskilling. Again Incandescent Materials are stupid easy to get. You have three paragraphs of useless arguments because you think they aren't. I get 10-50+ of them daily from simply sending out my 5 gathering goblins. That'd be more then enough for a weeks plus worth of poisons. Guess what most scouts don't want poisons to be their DPS fix. But that's not what this thread is about. There are threads covering that in the scout forums. And the Dev's have already said they will be making changes to how scouts do their DPS.
Clearly the best solution is just to delete Exemplar/Gnostic poisons. People then only need to foot the price of the cheap poisons, and can do so in the knowledge that they are using the best available. P.S. Still wtb mage usable consumables that I can throw my plat at. To be fair, I see our assassin pushing in excess of 12m encdps just from poisons (40-something % of their parse) on AE named encounters.
/Threadjack.... Based on the number of rares you buy on the broker, I assumed that you were preparing launch your own line of mage breakfast cereals. Introducing Daray's Clusters And Bits! +25 potency, and a vital part of your balanced breakfast. The tasty crunch of lumium clusters, the delicious flavors of bixbite bits, now with Araucaria Lumber flavored marshmallows! (The carbide ore is for making spoons) .. ok .. maybe that was only funny in my head...
