The issue / drawback / benefit with guardian Sphere is to assist your group to survive on AoEs ifI'm right (I can't check right now) but you need to be hit first in order to have the 25% chance to proc the stoneskin. which roughly translates as "you're gonan get hit by the AoE.. but you have a 25% chance to survive the second or the DoT tick. The reason you see no desernable difference is well... if it works you'll never even notice it. In contrast our old group heal (when it crit) was powerful enough to "help" top up the group and I enhanced it a lot to do just that; a massive AoE hit and I hit the button... and it gave the healers in my group an extra second to deal with cures and/or use their own group heals to complete the job. Like your guardian sphere it required the members to be hit first to work only the group was healed up slightly instead of not takign amage at all. Obviously you are correct in the recast (7.5s vs 3min) HOWEVER this is somethign I have never really sanctioned on the paladin at all.. the recasts on the heals are stupidly low meaning whatever healign benefit we give is only really effective if you start to spam... this is even more of an issue now that the heals no logner crit andyou need to cast 2-4 heals depending on health to have any desernable benefit from them at all (which incidentlaly costs ~ 1000+ power). Longer recasts, durational heals which add something more than pure healing in order to scale up to raid content and be useful. The group heal is a prime example use Guardian Sphere as an example (protect the group/yourself from AoEs) and you can quite easily change it to: Recast 2m30s Duration 10s Casting 1s (or interuptable) Increases the potency of heals by 40% * If not a fighter Cures 110 levels of all hostile effects on termination A longer recast ability which mirrors the guardian sphere in role... that or protecting the group, but by increasing the healing power of the priests in the group for a short duration and cures the group to assist in curing Dots. GS is more tank related and reduces incomign damage, Prayer of Healing (our group "heal" could be more group protection related whilst still maintaining an air of healing about it. The constanrt spam of heals which is required to make them useful is jut sickening and yes... none interuptable heals/wards is every paladins wet dream; because when you relaly want that ward (when you're takign amage and lots of it) it becomes less and less likely you can actually get to cast it!
You have to get hit for Guardian Sphere to proc. Then the stoneskin is up for 10 seconds. I'd have to go check but I'm 95% sure that is how it works. How does that help anybody stop an AoE? All it does it help a bit with a figh that's getting out of hand for the healers. SK's do a lifetap and Paladins cast a ward. Same thing and you can control yours. We can't control ours. It's not apples to apples.. it's not even the same food group. I do agree that the change to Guardian Sphere is helpful. For 6 years we have been avoiding that ability due to the instant death that it causes but even at that I only use it when I have a ton of stuff hitting me cause it's a waste any other time. I have gone through named instance fights where it didn't proc a single time in the whole fight and it was up for it's entire duration. Nice ability to rely on! Guardian Sphere is Stonewill on some juice.. ToS is three hits only which is nice when you can plan it's use. LMS helps a good bit also. While a couple of those abilities have the ability to focus them at the right time.. none of them will equal the heal parse form a paladin who already takes less damage than a Guardian from Physical hits.
Guardian Sphere will give a *chance* to help with secondary ticks of any Dots following an AoE.. or if 2 AoEs came close together. I'm not saying its the most fantastic spell in the world for group prevention... but it helps by contrast pally heals (of which we only have 1 group - the lifetap portion on one of our AoEs does not count) you actually have to take the full brunt of the damage first. Previously the group heal did like guardian sphere did and allowed us to stabilitise the group for the healers. Guardain sphere however is very effective at reducing incoming damage on the TANK... 25% may not sound like a lot .. but it can be the difference bwteen life and death especially when combined with templar/dirge stoneskins I'm not saying all pallys or myself want a carbon copy of the ability.. just somethign which helps our group survive the odd AoE better and if SoE do not like us healing so much then changing the group heal to heal like effects or protection will be ideal; obviously significantly increasing its recast to match. As for the "pally heals"... you have no doubt been shown and found the heal parse thread concerning the "2k/s heals" etc etc.. I can assure you in raids this simply is not possible... a single ability (crusaders faith) is responsbile for those spikes and such spikes only really occur in cella on the final named. I can show you many parses which skew taunts/heals/dps completly in most classes link them in group/guildchat and claim outrageous remarks about any class. Pally heals as I've shown and I can find you other examples if you wish are not the "wow" you claim... when the majority of my healing is "stonewill" sometimes as much as 50%+ it kind of brings you down to earth as to how much healing a pally can actually put out. As for the "take overall less damage"; I don;t think that's the case at all... you are comparing the 10% static DR with the 5% DR proc (if you even consider the 10% heal you have seriously got to be kidding me.) as you said we have heals which we can direct to "fill in" when we take damage spikes.. and yes, that is what they are intended to do... unfortunally the actual reality of them is less effective. and at the end of the day we have to actually take the damage to be healed. With a shield a guard has about as much or close to as much block% as a pally guard (12+15+10)= 37% - which includes hunker I think you can have a red slot adorn which gives +block% after an attack as well; stagger the two and you have similar block% pally (24+15) = 39% include defensively minded and guardian's sphere into the equation and you can easily reduce your incoming damage by a further 5-10% especially if you stagger them. or time them with known damage spikes with the addition of your 5% DR proc the actual incoming damage from guards in the end will be very VERY similar to that of a pallys; the difference betwene the two is everyone one of our abilities we just have to suck up and take the damage; guardians avoid it much better which is where our heals SHOULD make up the difference. Except they do not; and they need to change. Honeslty 90% of a guardian's problems can be solved with the change of your flurry endline in the guardian tree to say : "35% chance to flurry - if shield equiped in secondary" or just a flat 20% flurry chance; but that's another issue...
Sorry, you math says Paladins block more than Guardiand and that is including a short term buff with a red aodrnment applied to actually make it useful. Then you say Guardians are better. I don't get that logic. All of Guardians short terms buffs outside of defensive minded add physical mitigation and I'm a Legendary geared Guardian that is at the physical mitigation cap so what the heck good does that do? Defensive minded is good stuff but in the end, it's really our only worthwhile defensive buff. Again, Paladins take less damage over time than Guardians. They do more DPS (anywhere from a little to OMG more with a shield equiped I might add) and they have a self ward that they can recast after a very short time to help deal with spike damage. Giving Paladins stronger heals without some additional negative adjustments is wrong. You can get (and you said you do have them) stonewill items just like all other fighters so I'm confused how this comparision does anything other than try to get stonewill nerfed.
Wasuna wrote: To answer points 1 and 2: What boli was saying is this. In terms of sustained damage guardians and paladins (and ALL tanks) are pretty comparable. Paladins have slightly more avoid than a guard, and guards have slightly more mit than paladins. In terms of agro, with the amount of hate increase / transfer. Paladins and Guardians are pretty similar. Guards get more taunts (if memory serves), paladins offset this with dps. It is in the area of spike damage that paladins heals are supposed to be used. Not sustained damage, as i mentioned before, any and all sustained damage healers can EASILY take care of. Spike damage our heals are pitiful and useless in terms of helping with them. Yes paladins do more dps than a guardian (not the 2x someone claimed), but as Boli mentioned the OMG is only select fights that happened to be designed in a way to have high parses for certain classes. The guild i am in our MT is a guard, and he LOOOVES to link his 87k raid parse being #1 on the parse (beating our top wiz by over 20k). This is only one fight, zone wide he is no where close to that wiz. However he generally 1-2k higher parsing than me (but that is because our OT group doesnt give me too many dps buffs). The point i am making is that check the forums and you will see ZW's are pretty close paladin to guardians, with paladins just taking the edge. The self ward we can cast costs about 2-5% power to cast (not in game to confirm). And it wards for about 10% health (and this percent goes down the more HP you get). The fact that it has such a short recast means that if we want to get any benefit from it we need to constantly spam that and our single heal. Which as pointed out serveral times is EASILY if not almost ALWAYS interuptable (specially with the aoe's having stun / KB effect on them). All we are asking for is to make our heals useful to do what it is ment to do, deal with spike damage. Paladins have 5 base heals, 2 additional aa heals, and 1 myth heal. First the myth heal is laughable in how much it heals. Let alone it staying alive in an aoe. 1 of the 2 aa heals is just as laughable. Heals for less than our primary single target heal, and costs more power, with longer recast. WEEE!! The second aa heal is semi useful in that it heals more the more dmg your group does. Though most paladins dont spec it for raids, very situational. Continuing on aa. Besides the 2 aa heals, paladins have 11 that is right 11 aa's dedicated to improving our heals. Which makes 11 aa's prety useless to even spec for because the improvement still doesnt help the fact that our 5 base heals are still not that effective. Take lay hands, 5 min recast, supposed to be a big heal for us, instead it heals for about 10-12k which in raids is about 30% of our health. There have been a couple of threads on how to improve paladin heals without overpowering them. That is to improve them in such a way that they are useful to cast, but doesnt greatly increase a paladins abilities. Most paladins would agree to increase the recast of our heals (sept lay hands that they just need to turn into a % base heal of over 50%, see monks heal which heals for more than lay hands with faster reuse). With the increase in recast either change them to boost abilities, or increase the heal amount. If you actually look at the math you can increase the reuse high enough, while increasing the heal amount, in such a way that the HPS does not change that much. However the increase heal amount would help deal with spike damage. The "negative adjustment" would be changing the recast on heals. And no Boli is NOT asking to nerf stonewill, he was mearly using it as an example of how broken paladins heals are. You want more examples fine. SK and Berzerker. BOTH of these classes heal for more than a paladin. SK's reaver heals for 2%+ (with adorn) health for every spell that they cast. That is not including all the lifetap affects on their spells. Zerkers have that one spell that heals them for a lot whenever they take damage. The reaver is to help SK's deal with sustained damage. The berzerkers is to help with both sustained and spike damage. Again both of these classes out heal paladins in raids zone wide. Should we nerf these classes? HELL NO!!! Just because i mention them does not mean i want them nerfed. I am using them as an example that a paladin which is supposed to use our healing to offset spike damage. DOES NOT WORK. Our heals do not offset spike damage, and as a point item procs are more useful in offseting spike and sustained damage than our heals in terms of HPS.
In most posts here Paladins are saying they have more DPS, more Hate, take less sustained damage, and yet you're still asking for better spike handling abilities? If you get it, Paladins will be hands down the most defensive tank while also having some of the best DPS/Hate control of the tanks.*** @Guardians having more Mit.... are you honestly serious, ALL raid tanks are capped and most Legendary geared tanks are capped. The 10% DR you have over a Guardian means you take less damage, this also works on AOE's, ohh then add in the 40% Reduction and 200% reflect from LC for some AOE effect reduction. DPS is relatively equal??? Are you forgetting Paladins are doing this with a shield while a Guardian has to give up all uncontested avoidance to get close, this alone isn't even close to balanced. How exactly do I "Rotate" a buff which lasts 20 seconds and has a recast of 3 mins (Defensive Minded), with one that lasts 40 seconds and has a recast of 40 seconds that starts when the buff drops.. Please, let me know so I can use these buffs rotationally to equal the permanent block a Paladin has. About increasing the recast and increasing the heal amount.. you're achieving the effect at the top (***). If this happens, being the other defensive tank class I want more DPS, more hate and more sustained damage reduction to balance it out. Paladins have everything a tank needs to get the job done and then some in a lot of cases, giving them more Defensive abilities will make some other tanks classes even more redundant than they are already.
I will say this again. To talk about (Sustained) hate generation and (Sustained) damage is absolutely pointless between guard / pally. Hell the only class that might have issue with sustained hate generation (tank wis) is brawlers. It has been pointed out several times that amends really does not do a whole lot in terms of raid agro. Assassin + Coercer (with aa) = about 41% hate transfered to the tank. Amends would then net 9% hate transfer (at most, vs the 41% it is supposed to give) since cap is 50%. Add in guardians AA for +15% hate trhasnfer and guess what, they are capped at 50% with paladins, so to claim that they have better sustained because of amends is utter bull. In terms of sustained damage again the only class that may have an issue is bralwers but that is because avoid != mit in terms of avoiding dmg. Again sustained damage is not that important because healers can easily cover that. You also keep mentioning that 10% dmg reduction from the myth. That only reduces melee damage, not magical, but that is neither here nor there. In raiding it is about spike damage / hate snaps. Fact is Paladins are lacking relatively in both departments. They have the fewest number of snap agro of any tanks. Yes there is holy ground but it is only 1 hate position, and that doesnt bring you back from 0 hate to top fast enough, maybe after the mob has killed 4-5 people you would get agro back if you just use that. The only other snap agro they get is Rescue, and Sneering Assault. Both of which every tank class gets. Again as mentioned a number of times in this thread, paladins have less spike damage preventions than guards. I dont know sk's and zerkers well enough to talk about their spike damage prevention. So no in 2 HUGELY important areas paladins are lacking. To break it down. DPS: Paladins > Guards Sustained damage: Basically even Sustained hate: Basically even Spike damage: Guards > Paladins Snap agro: Guards > Paladins All we are asking for is to put our spike damage back on par to around what it used to be. The dev's have said that it is broken and is trying to balance this. However since that statement they have yet to give further info on how or when. All we want to know is how and when can we expect this obvious issue.
DPS = Hate, or are you confused on that matter, Paladins do more DPS = Paladins have more hate. In the same breath you've just said Paladins have more DPS but Hate is basically even, which just isn't the case. Fixed Below, seems pretty balanced to me, if anything there are more things the Paladin is better at than the Guardian and yet you still want more. DPS: Paladins > Guards Paladins do more DPS, end of. AOE DPS: Paladins > Guardians Guardians have 2 Blue AOE's, and 1 Green which has a 2 second cast time, Paladins do a lot more AOE damage. Sustained (inc) damage: Paladins > Guards Higher Block, higher % Damage reduction and equal mit on the Paladin means they take less sustained damage. Sustained (inc) AOE damage: Paladins > Guardians Due to the above since neither have abilities that transfer well to more mobs on you = less damage inc, where Zerks and SK's this is the case, Adrenaline reduces damage no matter how many are you on, SK's have abilities that lifetap more the more mobs on you, reaver will heal 2% per target (I've been informed) as well and SK's have lots of AOE's. Sustained hate: Paladins > Guards Due to the extra damage, for every 1 DPS more a Paladin does they gain 1.5 hatePS over the Guardian due to both being at 50% +Hate and Transfer caps. To Clarify Transfers aside (both have the same potential here and it's not dependant on the tank) If both are doing 20k DPS then both will have 30k hatePS, due to the 50% + Hate mod. If the Guardian is doing 20k DPS and the Paladin is doing 28k DPS then the Guardian has 30khatePS and the Paladin 42khatePS. The 8k DPS gain is a 12khatePS gain over the Guardian. Sustained AOE Hate: Paladins > Guardians. Same as above. Spike damage: Guards > Paladins Tower of Stone/Block/Stone Sphere Vs the Paladins Heals, here the Guardian wins. Snap agro: Guards > Paladins Reinforcement, and the Warrior AA are all the Guardian has over the Paladin, Paladins do have holy Ground but that is AOE and only 1 hate position. The Guardian "Plant" DOES NOT WORK on 90% of raid content, even lots of adds are immune to this target lock ability so it's of limited use.
Soul_Dreamer wrote: Higher block% keeps getting thrown at pallys, but count up the numbers block% its 39% bonus vs 37% bonus including hunker and I think to my knowledge hunker down can pretty much be maintained most if not all of the time; plus you can red adorn for an additional block%... in truth gear/group will be the decider here; but you're looking at virtually identical block% Guardian Sphere, Duration 36s Recast 3min Defensive Minded Duraiton 20s Recast 3min GS recast reduced by 40s (2m20s); Guards have 20% recast reduction also; in short you're looking at one of these abilities being cast every other min; give or take a few seconds here and there. Especially if you have 1 or 2 items/adorns which help with reuse. So first min GS, second min DM, 3rd min GS 4th min DM. Both of these abilities are not in a guardian's "spike damage prevention arsenal" but are rotated and staggered so they are up intermitantly. Lets say they both reduce incoming damage by ~ 15% and they are up between then ~ 40% of the time that will reduce incoming damage by ~ 6% overall Your Damage reudtion proc, no its *not* up all the time, but 2.4x min duration 12s; factor in cast speed, haste and its as close to up most of the time as you can get, epsecially procing immunity to status effects into the equation such as stuns/stifles/dazes. Aura of the crusader may be recast 1min duration 30s immunity.. but you only get the immunity if a status effect is dispelled which renders it near useless in raids. so lets say overall your DR proc gives you 4% DR. 4+6 = 10 which is the same as a paladins static DR Include your imunity to ripostes into the mix and count it as "equal" to our 10% heal - and that's being generous... my 10% "ubbah heal"... has a hps in most encoutners of less than 10hps - by contrast Riposites from some of the higher tier mobs are brutal. I'm ignoring mit but in my full raid gear I am *not* at the mit cap on my pally, full T3 geared its close...but no only with sigil up do I pass the cap. In contrast Guards in the same gear generally get to the cap vs 98 mobs most of the time. I'm ignoring it but you're looking at about 0.5% differnce in incoming damage which if you're being picky I could include. As for splitting up the incoming AoE damage I have no idea what you're trying to prove; no, guards's can't hold agro as well as a pally in AoE circumstances on a raid but I have news for you... on a raid they won't even ASK you to and SK and Zerker completly pwn both of us in AoE agro when it comes down to it. DM and GS are also not dependant on how many mobs are on you... in fact if multiple mobs are on you for only a short duration then I dunno but I would rather have a 25% chance of Stoneskin whilst being attacked by 20+ mobs for 30s or even adding a 20% inate dodge chance woudl be kind of handy when they get round the back of me. Add to that with that many mobs the ability to cast heals on a pally is completly redundant. The thinking that pallys take less incoming damage than guards not including damage spikes (which guards pwn at) is a complete lie when compared to an even halfway decent guard. The issue here... and always was the issue is that our heals are completly redundant as far as actually doing what they should which is act as our spike damage prevention or something similar and we are outhealed by SKs and Zerkers easily on heals, the monks "mend" heals for more than our LoH (b/c its % based) and has a 3min recast instead of a 5min recast; in fact the only tank we outheal ar guardians... but not by much given the main source of tank healing of late is Stonewill items. Tanks die from damage spikes not sustained damage at the end of the day but as far as Sustained incoming damage Guard == Pally. If you have issues with DPS/Agro - which from what you are saying you still need tweaks I suggest your own forum what Pallys have major issues with is our heals or lack of them. Oh; and if you ever start to say that pallys have "more hate gain/transfer" than guards you seriously need to look at your group setups... *everyone* can get 50% hate gain 50% transfer in a raid MT group.
Boli32 wrote: Unless Paladins are willing to give something up for Guardian like damage spike abilities then there is NO WAY they should be given them, and this is exactly what you're asking for.
Boli32 wrote: Basically I think you must be a DEV and your looking at a spreadsheet thinking ya, this class must be equal to that class, but thats what it looks like on paper. And thats just not true, Guards are horrid right now, the changes addressed none of the survivability problems. My guild was going to let me switch from my t3 geared 2 1/2 year played guard to a barely geared Paladin because even they had recognized the disparity in the class, however we recruited a pally because the bruiser quit so I betrayed to a Zerker. Back to original post tho. Tell you what, I'm totally ready to say buff the heck out of the pally heal, after you bring the crusader mitigation level back to what it was in past expansions, because I don't see you complaining that pallies have to much mitigation that rivals warriors but I do you see you QQ'n because they can have stonewill heals... Past expansion crusaders were no where near the mit cap, and we all know as a tank mitigation > all. Btw, when you start a Zerkers are totally OP thread I'll be there agreeing with you, and if you want to compare Pally vs Zerker that would be an interesting one because I'm not sure which one would come out. I do however play both so I know whats going on in game just not on paper... It comes down to this there are things I can do on my Pally that I can't do on my Zerker and could never dream of doing on a guard. Everything I can on my Zerker, I can do on Pally just slower . The nerf to critical healing was needed in this game, that or nerf crusader mitigation and give them back the critical healing (even then the pallies in the know would be laughing as they solo heal heroic zones and keep their groups 'topped up').
You do know that they will be "nerfing" mit in feb for next expac... they were going to do it a couple months ago but atm the mobs are designed in such a way that you need pretty much to be at mit cap. So they are holding off till next expac to hopefully "balance" it out. Whatever the balanacing of SOE is worth. I tred to wait for my guilds guard MT to get actual numbers on our mit / avoid difference, but he never came on yesterday. And no ont QQing about other tanks getting stonewill. It was just an example of how broken our heals are when an item will heal for more than our heals. Which as i pointed out we have 5 base heals, 2 possible aa heals, 1 myth heal. With 11 AA's dedicated to "helping" our heals. All of which are pretty useless since heals are pretty useless. We are not asking for crit heals back. We are asking for our heals to be improved to adjust to content. WE DONT want our heals to be so OP that we can solo heal instances. Sure it was nice but thats not what we are wanting. There have been suggestions on other threads on how to change or improve our heals so that they still "act" like heals. However they would not allow us to solo heal group content, AND they would scale to raid content.
Controlor wrote: And, every class has them, as a Guardian my Mit buffs are 100% redundant because I'm already over cap in mit, I still have 2 abilities that stand a HIGH chance of killing me if I use them in the way they are meant to be used. ALL of these abilities are AA choices for a Guardian, some we even have to take if we want other abilities in the tree. Zerkers have the same issue with mit buffs, and I'm sure SK's have similar issues with their lifetaps as Paladins do with their heals. Right now Paladins have all the benefits of a Guardian except their Stoneskin abilities and the 1 or 2 useful temporary buffs we have, at the same time you have superior DPS and Hate in both AOE and ST situations. In this thread and others I'm seeing people ask for Stoneskins/MASSIVE potency buffs/Damage reduction and lots of other things, currently these changes will just OP the class and make Guardians even more redundant as a defensive tank. Fine if you want you heals fixed/changed, I have no problem with that but you can't keep everything else at the same time, or other classes need more improving. For example. 2 of your healing abilities are changed to be useful, one is now a 2 shot stoneskin (Mini tower of stone on a 2 min timer), the other is a 20k ward on a 40 second timer. You now have equal ability to a Guardian to block the very large incomming hits as well as the same mit, more DPS, more Hate. Where does this leave Guardians, should they suddenly get more DPS etc. Then what about Zerkers when the Guardians are rivalling their DPS in AOE and ST situations, do they get even more defensive abilities. WHERE DOES THE BUFFING END! At some point in time we need to accept the limitations of our classes and stop looking over the fence to see what the neighbours have. I'm happy with my Guardian and I believe we're where we should be, I do think some of the tank classes are OP at the moment when compared to a Guardian though, this is mainly due to the mitigation bug SOE are refusing to fix until the next expansion (That has been around since TSO). Basically I'm happy with having slightly less DPS and Hate IF THERE IS A REASON FOR IT, currently there isn't due to the mit bug. Currently SK's/Zerks/Paladins all have the mitigation of a Guardian and other newer defensive abilities but I see no area they had to pay for these, until I do and I see there being balance I'm not going to be happy with buffing classes even further, so, I'll argue against it.
The point is that the majority of paladin defensive spells are currently completely useless. Guardians may have thier own problems, but this really isn't about you.
Adding this.... stoneskins, damage reduction, mitigation increase, health increases, ability which increases the healing power of heals cast on the paladin, ability to protect the group from AoEs, short term immunity to ripostes/striketstoneskins, damage reduction, mitigation increase, health increases, ability which increases the healing power of heals cast on the paladin, ability to protect the group from AoEs, short term immunity to ripostes/strikethroughs/interuptshroughs/interupts. To a class that is already a primary choice for ALL aspects of tanking then it effects tank balance, so yes it is about every single tank class, including Guardians. You suddenly want Adrenaline/Tower of Stone/Guardian Mitigation buffs/Guardian HP Buffs/Guardian AOE protection AA choices.. and you want them for free with no loss in any area because your heals now heal for less?
We are not asking for every one of those things no. We ARE asking to improve broken heals. This could include 1 of those things sure. However i am more for just increasing the base heal amounts of our heals by 1.5 - 2x while increasing the reuse 2-2.5x. This would make out heals more viable for spike damage without overpowering them in any fassion. As the HPS would be about what it is now (maybe slightly more due to pot / aa choices), but nothing OMG i am a healer now woo. If you think it would you are kidding yourself. IF ONE of them was turned into a big heal only pot buff, or a stoneskin, or whatever, than it would have its recast adjusted accordingly. Again though we are not asking for stoneskin, and pot, and dmg reduc, and mit increas, and protection from aoe, and all the other stuff you claim we are asking for. Also Lay Hands NEEDS to be % based. Period. No argument about this one. This is supposed to be one of our biggest "oh crap" spells for spike damage. Currently costs nearly 500 power. and heals for about 30% in raids. (500 power is a LOT of power when it used to be 0 power (now about 5% power)). Versus SK's Harm Touch which is 0 power big nuke and heals for about 10-15%. Or Monks mend which is 0 pr and heals % based for more than lay hands (think 50% or more).
It's not that they just heal for less, they heal for a whole lot less, can be interrupted and are damn near useless in most situations. The relevance of casting them at all has gone down considerably and needs to be addressed. If anything, the heals we have could be changed to something else, because as they are they are now they barely merit a place on our hotbars. And yeah, the whole lay hands harm touch thing etc...lol. Lay hands should be no power cost.
Controlor wrote: It's not me "Claiming" you're asking for it, it's Boli ASKING for it! I have no problem with your healing being increased slightly and recasts raised. I do have a problem with you asking for abilities that are and have always been Warrior abilities, it would OP the Paladin class to have that much spike prevention while keeping the DPS and Hate you have over other fighters. If you want the Spike prevention of a Guardian then you pay the same price Guardians do in all other areas.
I never said I wanted EVERYTHING... jeez! SoE have through nerfing the heal crits and made it very clear (I'll try and find a quote if I can) that they never wanted fighters to heal as much as they did pretty much told the entire paladin community that healing and fighters will never happen again. My point is GEAR heals far more than our spells and certainly easier to use; SKs and Zerkers actually heal more than Pallys. so our ENTIRE NICHE... that of being a tank with heals... is rendered useless; so my suggestion if you are not gonna give/upgrade our heals then look into tweaking our heal spells to give heal like effects or other abilities for a short duration. Even the dev quote where they said they'lll make our heals more powerful but at a much lower recast said that in the end we'll have even less HPS so we have a dev quote bascially saying that the fighter heal nerf didn't go far enough on pallys! Prayer of healing, Aid, Sacrament, Lay on Hands, Demonstration of Faith 5 abilties, now rendered pretty much useless whilst tanking or have had their use sevearly limited, aid sacrament and prayer have all been removed from most pallys hotbars - we have entire AA LINES dedicated to our heals and now completly useless. it NEEDS to be looked at... and if like SoE said we're not gonan get better healing abilities and they are gonan reduce it even further then my suggestion is remove heals from the equation make our heals into other abilities which have secondary effects which CAN scale to raid level... or simply remove them altogether... at this moment in time I'm thinking of /petitioing to get all pally heals removed completly just to shut you up.
Not really, if you currently have a 3k heal on a 10 second timer, that's 18k in base heals per min. IF you got given a 15k heal on a 1 min timer the HPS may be lower but the heal itself is more useful at handleing spike damage. Same goes for the ward, currently you say its: Demonstration of Faith Power: 188 Casting : 1.38s Recast: 13.2s Duration: 24s Wards target against 4594 points of all damage If that was changed to: Power: 188 Casting : 1.38s Recast: 25 seconds Duration: 24s Wards target against 12000 points of all damage You now don't have to spam it, it becomes useful against spike damage but your HP has gone down. This is what they were meaning I think, NOT giving you every ability a Guardian has! *Edit* Boli, you in Ascend on RE server?
