Even more amusing, it's self proclaimed casuals wanting video footage to be provided, because other people can run PGs faster... One for the lulz!
2:30 minutes vs 1 hour in a zone that is supposed to have normalized stats demonstrates that the biggest problem exists on the implementation of the instance and not the skill of the players. Exploits or no exploits, a zone that is supposed to put people on an even playing field should not allow some that have certain things to finish in 2:30 while others who maybe don't have those things take 30x as long to get it done. So, exploits or no, the zones came out broken. And when things are broken, some groups are better equipped to exploit the broken-ness than others. And then eventually it is fixed AFTER everyone who had the means to exploit got their stuff, leaving the rest of the crowd disgruntled and wading through the slog to get their items from a much less forgiving environment that fewer are even participating in, making it even MORE tedious than it should be. So, we need to stop making this issue into a casual vs hardcore whine fest/quit your whining, and rather turn it more productive as we ask our developers to put out tested, balanced, fun content.
I hold a different view. Even if PGs had a significant testing/balancing window, I believe the time variations between the best, and the slowest, would continue to be significant. Skill counts for far more than some people realize. Some changes may slow the faster times, but if the content is weakened to help the slower people, it also helps the faster people. At this stage of EQ2s lifespan, expecting tested, balanced content is a bit ambitious. They do not have the resources of old. I was happy to see them try something, even if it had issues. While one can make a case that PGs was not a raging success, I hope it does not deter the Devs from trying other things. The alternative is much more disheartening.
Well you came close to candour. It's the first time I can actually remember you referring to yourself in the game, instead of third party references and ipso facto/qed statements. So you never used a vigor item in PG and your conscience is clear. Using the same logic you constantly challenge others with in this forum, I will now assume, "unless proven otherwise", that you never took advantage of etherealist implosion higher damage or used a brew of readiness. I don't see either of those as exploits. But they were being utilised by some players in PG (not you of course) to speed up their race. Half the challenge and fun of these zones if working out ways to do it better. Constant changes and nerfs in reaction is disheartening......they might as well have called this experiment Unproven Grounds.
What skill are talking about? I think those that cost $70 to GM them from scratch? Look, last PG Glacial Freeze was doing instantly 50% damage to names after fix nerf it was still doing 10% and guess what? even apprentice while surging was doing 20% a pop, toss here brew of readiness and more then 2 ele in group... BOOM named dead before fight even start processing first script. If you think second PG changed much than think again - some Ascending skills do massive damage (like 1.5-2% per tic - that's a hint). What other skills you talking about? ability tank to body no more then 3-4 trash mob at time? or ability of tank to learn how to drag 4th named into tornado? Or may be you are talking about skill creating PUG with 2-3 utility classes instead of 1?
to your first point, the best are already finishing in 2:30. I don't see how making it easier for non-optimal groups would change anything in that regard. And honestly, I'm not exactly saying they should be easier. What should be easier is finding a group or solo queuing INTO a well-balanced group. If those 2 things were more efficient, then I would personally have less of a problem. But I also have seen groups that have all the parts taking absolutely forever, simply because they don't have ascensions or SOMETHING that the better groups have. Normalized should have been totally normalized. If you have ascension working in there, it should have been a base damage value that ignored tier of the spell. Brew of readiness should not have worked in there. Etc. The best will always be the best, at least in that I definitely agree. But that doesn't mean we should sit here and NOT draw attention to the lack of balance/polish that has been given to us. But to your second point I wholeheartedly agree. In concept, the PG was kind of a cool idea. And even now, when it is working, it is fun. It's frustrating that so many bugs/problems have come along with it, because in many of my runs in there, the potential existed for a race to the finish, which would be enjoyable as a side diversion from raiding and heroic dungeons here and there.
Using ascension skills was not declared an exploit. Using brews of readiness was not declared an exploit, Brews of readiness are used for much more than ascension skills, and will continue to be used extensively after this change. Therefore, my past or future use of either, is irrelevant when discussing exploits. That sentence can easily be applied to high end raiding. Constant changes and nerfs is par for course over the last decade. Still, it is better that they had a go at doing something, than doing nothing at all.
Back when EQ2 had a much larger developer team, and had both BGs and Dungeon Finder put into the game, they could not get a half decent group builder working for the life of them. Expecting that to magically change in 2017, seems strikingly unrealistic. This may not be what we want to admit, but seriously now... That is a shame, because brews are available to anyone, and were good for much more than ascension skills.
yeah like epic skills ... lol good thing my epic reset timer not long anyway but I am welcome what ever they did with last patch to PG now at least zone playable with random PUG in semi reasonable time (under 20min)
I believe first person shooters make for a relevant example as they are video games, and usually occur within normalized environments. Arena shooters make a concise example of how normalized environments within video games can still have significant variation in results. In an Arena Shooter, what happens when a team of very experienced clan members match up up against a team of random players who happened to be at the top of the queue? Carnage. Most Arena Shooter environments are more normalized than EQ2's PGs can ever hope to be, so I believe it is unrealistic to expect EQ2 to be better at it. The components of skill and how it applies to EQ2, will differ when compared to Arena Shooters. But is still present, and can add up quickly, especially when multiplied by the number of people in a team(group). If we lived in some kind of fantasy land, where the EQ2 devs had all the time and resources to release a thoroughly tested and finely tuned PGs with a flawless group buil... Heh, that is a bit too unrealistic to finish that sentence. As for ascension abilities, I made my position clear on them, well before PGs became a thing. I believe it is a P2W system, and while some people are celebrating ascensions being dialled back for PGs, they still matter for raiding. And I care a lot more about raiding than I do about times in PGs.
EQ2 not have skills imo - coordination in execution is different beast We been shaving every run like 4-5 min optimizing trash kill (started from 28min down to 19min in 2 runs) did our skills changed within 1 hour? hell no lol but did we develop better coordination About Arena shooters it will all depend on gear not the skills (pretty much like PGs) - if I can 1shot-kill healer and well organized team can't guess who going to win?
I think the point about skill is that an arena shooter is a mostly normalized setting, and yet some people can easily attain a high k/d ratio, while others struggle. And groups of people with good k/d ratios will destroy people with low. There is skill in a shooter which will forever separate the skilled from the skill-less. And that does apply here to an extent. The more skilled players will always beat the lesser skilled players even if true balance of the game mechanics could ever be achieved. However, what we have in the PG is ON TOP of that type of skill balance gap, we also have broken mechanic balance gap and pay to win ascension balance gap and items doing what they shouldn't do 'in the know' gap and some classes doing WAY more than others gap which makes it that much more compounded and frustrating. So it's not as simple as skill alone. I think people could live with always losing to the top tier guilds in a pg if it was a fluid, fun environment. Unfortunately, that's not the environment we were given.
Well per say - we are not loosing to top tier of guilds because of skills/coordination etc. We are loosing because we are not THAT fast in finding shortcuts and loopholes lets summary a bit what we do know PG1 - GF was -50%, brew of readiness reset, surging x2 damage of Ascending, run speed buffs, high/extreme high efficiency of implosion (GMed), Kenny Doll against roots PG2 - certain charms of previous x-packs, still implosion, brew worked before yesterday patches, still surging ascending - that's what it is was to my knowledge and I BET I am missing quite a few elements (say consumable) PG2 after patch - from what I discovered by accident - GMed Cascading Force specially then it surging hit like loaded track - I seen like 2-3% per tic For what I know is DOES NOT work - EA (hitting named at 1% with almost full power bar does not kill it). Levin Bolt thou - do shave like 1-2% per hit which is A LOT less then Primal chain of BL do (and it does a lot damage) From my perspective of BL/etherealist - Primal Chain, Implosion for trash, Cascading Force for Name, Epic so-so (at ancient level) and Etherflash so-so (for trash) - things that I found work well
