My experience tonight after the so called "Hotfix"...

Fought 3 Owlbears, no ^ group level 24, did it 3 times. So a total of 9 mob's 3 at a time.

Had Fury up, Bloodlust, Battle Chant, Battle tactics, Soldiers Stance, Focus Rage. All are Adept 1 btw.

Used Raging Strike, Baloks Challenge (i think thats the name, was lvl 20 training skill. Replaces "Anger" but can cause Berserk it says.) Enrage, Furious Onslaught.

All of which have a chance to cause Berserk. I didn't go Berserk anymore then I did last nite, average 2 times a fight. You would think, that with 3 Owlbears attacking me that I would be going Berserk quite a bit. You would think with Balok's Challenge, Enrage (Both on seperate timers) Furious Onslaught and Raging Strike being consistantly used as well as Bloodlust, being that the fight lasted quite awhile I would have been Berserk a good amount of time.

I was not, Zerked two times average each fight.

I have to say that the "chance to go berserk" listed in our abilities is just that, a "chance" and I think its bout a 10% chance... if that. I know Berserk is working because I also tried 2 ^ lvl 24 Owlbear group and had to run very fast. (Totally different then Wednesday night, which btw was after the group damage buff patch.) and as I was hit from behind I went Berserk so I KNOW Bloodlust is working.

It just never goes off. I guess if you were in a full group fighting 6 mobs at a time, you'd go Berserk 4 or 6 times? I don't know.

What I do know is the defining aspect of our class, the thing that seperated us from Guardians now does not work. At least for me, in 3 seperate fights against 9 mob's total, 3 at a time. I was able to beat them, but so could a Guardian. A Guardian has about the same exact DPS we do unless we go Berserk, plus they have higher AC, HP, and better damage mitigation so odd's are the Guardian would have fared much better I would think.

Bloodlust does not taunt now from the information I got from other Berserkers. So Guardians probably have us beat in that dept to now.

I think i'm going to not play for awhile and see what happens, maybe roll a new character. This happened as I was closing in on 29/30 so I still have everything on me that I got at level 20 (Everything I got at level 20 was Orange, all my equipment is now Yellow. I'm in as good of equipment as you can be at 28.) BTW also when I was able to redo my choices yesterday I went 100% agility, so my AC is higher and my Agility is higher today then it was on Wednesday, and i'm a Dark Elf so I have good Agility as it is anyway.

Good luck to all, I have no idea what I'm going to do from this point. Level to 37 so I can get Tide of War and go Berserk a good amount and be what I was on Wednesday, or reroll a Guardian. I really have to think that at this point, Guardians seem destined to never be nerfed and be everything EQ1 Warriors were. In which case being a Guardian would be about as safe a bet as you could get. They seem to feel entitled to being the best MT's in the game, and SOE seems to agree with their point of view.

It was fun being a Zerker, even tho I could not really do anything any other melee class could not do in equal level equipment. If I had known Wednesday It would be the last time I'd be seeing myself constnatly enter Berserk, I would have stopped to smell the roses =)

Vanessa

P.S. If your one of the Overlord types and everything was perfect and is now perfect, good for you. Happy for you. But it is not perfect for me, I know my class, I know what I was able to do, accomplish and what my performance level was. It is now seriously lower. Much lower then the other class from the same tree (Warrior) the Guardian.
Message Edited by Vanessa on 01-07-2005 06:56 PM
Message Edited by Vanessa on 01-07-2005 06:59 PM

I feel sad for you, but I'm sure you knew this was coming.

I hope you can find something enjoyable again.

wrong post
Message Edited by Ewor on 01-08-2005 04:46 AM

I have nothing against guardians, but I want a seperate and unique class. These new changes took a pretty good chunk out of our usefulness and what we were known for.

We knew a fix was coming for bloodlust, but didnt expect it to be nerfed into virtual uselessness.
Message Edited by Methusek on 01-07-2005 10:39 PM

My response to Faeye is that Guardians were NEVER supposed to do the DPS damage output of berserkers, they had / have a different nitch. Berserkers never wanted to have the most AC, HP, protection spells, Guardians were considered to be the best tanks by most people.

This "change" was never supposed to be about reducing our total effectiveness, it was supposed to be about making Berserk not agro MOB's by working as a buff, and for SOE, it was to make Bloodlust, which has worked as it has for as long as I have been playing, work the way the wording of it was.

I don't think they have ANY idea what Bloodlust does or will do or what effect it would have on the class by changing it to match the text discription.

It would be one thing if the rest of our abilities, mainly the ones that say "Chance to Berserk" in the discription actually worked, and functioned correctly.

But they do not, and now because Bloodlust hardly works AT ALL, we are a nullified class.

To come and say we had to expect this? Really, show me some links to people complaining about Berserker damage. From what I've seen all complaints were about Berserk acting as a free taunt.

Vanessa

I'm not sure how you couldn't see it. I picked guardian because I knew zerkers were going to be nerfed soon. The skill was totally outrageous on all cases. I'm sorry if you disagree, but a berzerker shouldn't outdamage an assassin.

I am a 27 berserker and my session last night was differant then Vanessa's.

I went out to do giants with my partner (27 warden) and tested my 2 weapon sets (2 hander, dual wield, sword and board) I did it on multiple blue ++ and white + mobs. I did not fight the mobs any differantly then I had prior to the 'big patch'.

I found that I no longer berserk constantly - however I was in a berserk state for more then half of every fight, I would go so far as to say that I was berserk the majority of the time.

I found that the decrease in haste effect made me hate my 2 hander, but I did not notice a huge differance in kill speed with dual wield - there was a differance, just not a big enough one for me to be that unhappy.

I also found that I had zero trouble keeping aggro, this held true when we had a wizard guildie join us later in the night. There was never a point when I did not have aggro. I noticed zero differance. This might be because I never counted on the auto-aggro effect of berserk going off -- I always used my taunts as a matter of 'best practice'.

My parter and I talked at the end of the night and we both could tell that my overall effectivness took a little hit, (of course she could be biased from my hour of ranting before the test began) -- but we both agreed that the hit was a small one and that Berserkers would still probably outdamage any of the other tank classes. We could still take on all of the mobs we previously took on as a duo, and did not notice that big of a differance in kill speed or healing.

I will continue to be a berserker at this time.

Just my two pennies - take them for what they are worth.

Kainin and vanessa, what upgrade level are your respective Bloodlust ?

Kainin you were the MT, so Bloodlust procs (although not half as much as before). Try and get in a group where youre not the MT and see the differences.


Anyway, i think its still too early to call it a day on the Zerker class. Today's patch is in and im already testing it.

So far and as i type, soloed some solo gray group mobs in Antonica (they practically dont hit me) and went berserk quite a few times.

Gonna test it on high level group mobs and grouped.

k did one more test on gray group mobs, fighting sabertooths in front of BB (5 of them) the fight lasted for around 1 min and with
Bloodlust and Focus Rage on my Zerker procced 5 times.


Not bad, gonna test it more on higher stuff

"I'm not sure how you couldn't see it. I picked guardian because I knew zerkers were going to be nerfed soon. The skill was totally outrageous on all cases. I'm sorry if you disagree, but a berzerker shouldn't outdamage an assassin."

Yeah, I don't think anyone expected bl to not get nerfed. What we didn't expect was focus rage to get nerfed too, and for all our "chance to berzerk" abilities to not get bumped at all so we can at least have a decent chance to zerk. Yes bloodlust was broken, no, berzerking itself was not. All they had to do with BL (and berzerk in general) was put in a check to make sure it doesn't fire if you're already zerked. But no, that would make too much sense.

I feel sad for you, but I'm sure you knew this was coming.

I hope you can find something enjoyable again.



Troll else where peck. You are just happy that you are being asked to MT again. Every time I have grouped with a guardian in the past, after about 3-4 pulls, I was ask to take over MT becuase I could protect the group and you couldnt. Sure took a bit more healing but no one died, ever! That said, I never wanted to be MT in the first place and chose my class because I wanted to do damge and be able to function as a grind tank for my guild. Now that I can not do damage I am as useless as the guardians, cant protect a group and cant do damage. Seems the only really dencent tank class now will be the SKs and Pallys since they can pull group aggro through heals. Guess I will make a Scout...probably still be a better tank and can do damage again.
Message Edited by Darkdog on 01-08-2005 12:05 PM

Umm what heal spell does a SK get? I group with one all the time and he has never healed.... He does get lifetaps, but they don't really make more aggro then a reg attack. I do hear people talking about lifetaps that help the whole group but if they are working then they sure don't work much.

Drax -

Mine is at Adept 1.

As for me 'zerking because i was MT -- then that works out fine for me, I am in a smallish guild so I am usually MT. Sorry I am unable to comment on the change for non-MT's.

You mean some of you are OK with not main tanking? When presented with not playing main tank I show them that I can pull agro off MT on a regular basis and the MT usually concedes the spot to me. The point being you shouldn't be in a group where you're not MT, or you should make yourself better at gathering agro. Healers, mages, scouts, etc. prefer to have the person that is best at assuring thier survival, not the person who is best at mitigating damage. Even if this results in more power being used to heal them if you can hold agro better you'll be MT.
This doesn't mean I'm fine with the continual screwing berserkers get, but I'm sure as hell not going to hang up my armor becase someone tells me we're "gimped." [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] the man, I playing a zerker till the day I die.
Message Edited by Sabin the Great on 01-08-2005 07:18 PM

That is not the best attitude to have, if there are two equal level tanks in the group the one with the best AC should be the main tank (not counting AC if comparing to a Brawler type). Just because you can pull agro off of the main tank does not give you the right to be the main tank. Other classes can easily take agro off of the main tank if they really wanted to. Unfortunatly Mages and Scouts tend to die faster then a Berserker does, so they have to learn agro management. If the main tank cannot keep agro off of the healer or other classes on a regular basis then yes, step up to the plate. What you should not do is say I can pull agro so I will be the main tank. Levels being equal AC should determine who the main tank is. If the person with the highest AC cannot do their job <keeping agro> off of the Healer / mages, by all means ask to take the spot. However, if the person you are taking agro from takes 20% less damage then you, all you are doing is causing more downtime then would be required.

Yes I realize you are an armorer so should have better armor on then most others. However, there is always the case of another playing having better AC and you should step down from the roll of main tank when that situation arises. Being able to hold agro is great. Taking more damage then the original tank with the only person he could not keep agro off of was the berserker is not playing smart.

OK, let me address this I think my wording was abit unclear and I apologize. When I was saying that I try to pull agro off the MT I meant doing so in a way that is no different than when I play at any other time. The differences btw when I MT and when I don't is the non-use of Taunting Blow and Sunder/Stunning Cry and the switch from One-Handed Weapon/Shield to Dual Wield. Other than that my playstyle is the same. I will however use taunts to start and close HO's. Essentially I play the same. If in the course of playing I gather the agro then so be it. If I can pull agro off what chance does a mage/healer have. Furthermore if a Mage has to ration himself b/c he has to fear that the MT won't hold agro then it is time for the MT to switch out. Someone who takes 20% less damage, but causes a mage to hold back by 10-20% isn't making the total amount of kill time any shorter. While you may spend more time waiting, with breeze on and good food you can fill a power bar in an instant. Plus, the mage holding back means longer fights which means more heals which leads to the same amount of power being used. To summerize my point, the MT shouldn't necessarily be the person with the best AC, it should be the person who does the best job at letting everyone else do theirs. If I feel I can do that better than someone with 50-100 more AC then me, then why shouldn't I try to do so. And generally speaking if someone is tanking better than myself I'll volunteer to leave a group to let them get more DPS. I'm a tank first a DPS machine second. I play the berserker b/c I like the moves I like the concept. People will be happiest with the person who holds agro the best.

I'm not ok being in full Vanguard with a Tower Shield and not being able to be the MT.

Why would Zerkers be able to use Towershields and not SK's or Paladins if we were deemed unworthy of being consistant MT's?

It's goofy.

No, I don't always group, I solo alot, but IF I am in a group and the highest level and best equiped then gosh darn it I should be the MT.

Now due to changes I can not take that role with confidence.

Vanessa

135 fights tonite.. proc'd berserk 25 times.. the only skill that was consistant at getting berserk was Enrage, but I wasn't MT so I couldn't use it.

Guardians get the MOST hit points, MOST AC, MOST mitigation all we had was our DPS and now it's mostly gone.. plus Guards do decent damage.. how the hell is this fair?

nice work SOE


Add..

Coup de gras - doesn't proc berserk on a mobs death..
the Anger replacement - Doesn't proc berserk
Furious onslaught - doesn't proc berserk
Raging strike - doesn't proc berserk and fades instantly




Message Edited by Grimgore on 01-08-2005 10:25 PM