Minimum Deflection Chance vs. Shield Protection Value

BChizzle wrote:

As always you turn the conversation to be all about you and make it completely personal.
Its funny how you always get personal when somebody corrects your thoughtless blanket statements. Think it happens in every thread.

Bruener wrote:

Since your memory is short lets recap shall we?
I said no mobs do 75% strike through and usually strikethrough rates are around 10%.
You tried to use an example of a mob that has a 100% strikethrough buff only 5-10% of the time in the fight so even if you counted that short time his blue buff is up you still aren't looking at a 75% strikethrough amount.
So again please oh please Bruener point out my false and needed to be corrected blanket statement here. You won't and you can't. But keep trying to divert from the facts as usual once you get caught with your foot in your mouth. As seen with your admission that you were wrong and other tanks do need a dps boost (which you have so strongly argued against since BETA) I expect you again to be about 8-9 months behind on this issue. Welcome to TSO finally you've been in RoK a long time, hopefully you make it to our newest expansion SF one day.

That insult didn't make much sense...
If this were TSO he'd be psyched about how uber he is and would laugh at brawlers for their sucky tanking, and then you would post that video of you tanking flames again.

Vinka@Antonia Bayle wrote:

I was more pointing out that he is finally catching up to the idea that other tanks AREN'T in fact fine.

BChizzle wrote:

Sorry to disappoint you man, but if you feel tanks are so off-base right now you are never going to enjoy this game again. I suggest just quitting and allowing those that recognize how it really is to start speaking for your class for a change.

Bruener wrote:

It is your typical answer. I mean if you don't tell other tanks that see an imbalance that they 'suck at their classes and should quit' at least once a day you might not be able to sleep at night right?

BChizzle wrote:

I stand corrected after going over about 10 fights - its 50%, please learn the difference between just looking at percentage avoided and actually drilling down into an avoidance report in ACT.

Khurghan wrote:

You realize that if Waansu actually struckthrough 50% of the time that something like 50% avoidance which is below average for a plate tank would end up at 25% right? Don't tell people to learn to read ACT when you can't grasp the simple concept on how strikethrough works. Its ok though, keep trying maybe eventually you will get it right.

BChizzle wrote:

See that row that's reads No Damage (Stoneskin) ? you do know how stoneskins work right?

Khurghan wrote:

Here is an avoidance report on our SK for Waansu, now I understand RNG and that this is hypothically possible that my SK avoided 100% of all the swings come at him and then Waansu's strikethrough didn't proc s much as it should have (lawl) but it is highly unlikely since I can produce many parses showing the same thing. Notice even if you remove the stoneskins he still would have avoided much more the 50%. Keep on trying though maybe eventually you will get it right.

Thanks for proving my point! Any chance you could ask your SK what his normal grouped shield block is (you might need to normalize this with some samples to take into accounts procs etc)
Just in case you need any help heres a link Avoidance FAQ

Khurghan wrote:

Your point isnt proven, that is my SK in his dps gear so probably around 30% block, the avoidance report refutes your 50% strikethrough claims completely. Try harder.

Here's some help -
http://www.calculateforfree.com/

Khurghan wrote:

Here is some simple math for you 50% strikethrough on 100% avoidance would end up with a 50% avoidance report. You see the one I provided is more then 50% avoidance and thats just assuming my SK avoided 100% which we both no is near impossible.

His said his SK is in DPS gear, so lets assume he isn't wearing any block chance gear. If he's using a shield with a protection value of 1866 and around 23% block chance, such as the Arc Night Towershield (which is likely what he has given his guild's progression), then his block should be at 26.3%
Lets assume he has 4.4% parry food/drink, which brings his uncontested parry/riposte up to 8.8%,
Now lets look at how much we would expect him to avoid:
Parry/Riposte is calculated first. He theoretically avoids 8.8% of attacks (actual value on that ACT report: 6.67)
Of those 91.2% of attacks go to block. He theoretically should avoid 26.3% of those, or 91.2* .263= 23.9% (Actual value 19.14%)
Now, we've predicted 8.8+23.9= 32.8% avoidance, and his actual value is 6.67+19.14= 25.8% avoidance
If 1-X=strikethrough then
32.8*X=25.8=0.79
Strikethrough= 21%
Bear in mind that this is assuming that his SK does not have a single piece of block chance gear on besides his shield, which is almost certainly untrue. If Blanka would be kind enough to tell us how much block chance and what shield his tank is wearing/the protection value on it I could run through a more accurate model for you.

Vinka@Antonia Bayle wrote:

Sitting in offensive gear he is probably closer to 34+% block.

Bruener wrote:

Even if he's 25% strikethrough that would mean that the SK would have had to avoid around 75% to get it, which seems attainable but not in offensive gear.

You guys are funny when you bust out the graphs and try to do math.

Rahatmattata wrote:

I happen to like proving people wrong on the internet using science!
By all means, if you think you see a mistake I'd like to see you "try to do math" and prove me wrong. Why don't you go ahead and try to show how that avoidance report works out to be 50% strikethrough instead of 21%? If there's an error in my calculations I'll be happy to fix it.
If you like, I can calculate how high the SK's block chance would have to be for that avoidance report to be 50% strikethrough.

Vinka@Antonia Bayle wrote:

It would be interesting to see how strike-thru starts climbing thru harder mobs. I mean Waansu is a pretty easy hard-mode mob, arguably the easiest or 2nd easiest. Might try and get some numbers on parses from mobs to see how things climb.
21% you came up by using a low block amount because really his uncontested block was probably 34% or close to it. Not sure if I did your math exactly the same but think I came up with a number around 36% strike-thru.
I know that is a lot closer to 50% strike-thru than it is to 10% strike-thru and we are talking about one of the easier HM mobs out there. Would be nice to check the numbers on mobs in The Hole and the harder HM mobs.