Minimum Deflection Chance vs. Shield Protection Value

Vinka@Antonia Bayle wrote:

Could plate tanks get two handed weapons that have built in shields too?
I rather like the unique abilities each class/subclass has and find the tanking game pretty balanced right now without any need for change.

Corydonn wrote:

I sent a PM to Kander about possibly making it a turn on type clicky buff which would fix the issues this type of proc creates.

Vinka@Antonia Bayle wrote:

Brawler classes are balanced to be either DW or two handed dps, making our defensive weapons do less damage is actually just silly when you consider that we are forced to use our defensive stance when tanking unlike any other tank class. The sublime cestus increases our block by 6% if we are fully defensive that is HARDLY even comparable to a shield which adds 25% block to a plate tank. Yes it is nice to have defensive BLUE effects on our weapons however those weapons shouldn't be so gimped like the way they gimped the sublime cestus they should be as good as any other weapons with a defensive proc. Devs need to really rethink this.

Corydonn wrote:

Items like the Sublime/Defender's Cestus are not really comparable to a pure dps build like a 2-hander for a plate tank. As Blanka pointed out, the damage rating is significantly lower on these weapons--sure, if we double them up and use both we increase our uncontested block by about 11.8% (significantly less than the 21% plates get for putting on a shield), but just from testing out autoattack damage against training dummies I'm seeing a drop from around 12k autoattack to 8k as compared to Uthgar's blade/Sublime handwraps. So we cut our autoattack dps by a third to gain a little over half what a plate tank gets from a shield. I'm not sure how much a plate tank's dps drops going from dual wield/2hander to sword and board, but I'm guessing its somewhere in the area of 30-40%, which is pretty comparable.
So, at the end of the day we're making close to the same dps sacrifice plate tanks are when they go sword/board, while only gaining slightly over half the defensive bonus they do.
Either we need these weapons to have decent damage ratings so we're not making the same sacrifice for less gain, or we need some seriously uber defensive weapons. I'm not saying that the sublime cestus needs to be crazy awesome--its bought with marks, after all. But there should be some fantastic defensively oriented weapons out there--where's our equivalent of the trak shield, for example?

Vinka@Antonia Bayle wrote:

My shield rocks on mobs that have 75% strikethrough.

Khurghan wrote:

There are no mobs with 75% strikethrough. Mobs that strikethrough usually do so around a 10% rate.

BChizzle wrote:

That you know of...
Oh and the end boss of wing 2 in Underfoot has a buff that gives him 100% strike-thru....guess which tank is the only one that can stand up to him during that time?

BChizzle wrote:

Waansu's strikethrough is around 75%.

Khurghan wrote:

Wrong

Bruener wrote:

Funny our SK was the MT for that fight, of course we have killed it while you haven't.

BChizzle wrote:

Fixed

Khurghan wrote:

If waansu's strikethrough is 75% how would you explain our tanks having 50%+ avoidance on him while tanking in mostly dps stuff? Please stop making things up pull up your ACT and provide all of us with a waansu fight where you avoided less then 25% which would be the absolute maximum avoidance that would be possible if Waansu actually struck through at a 75% rate. Fact is you don't have a clue what you are talking about, but if you really want to get into this you will find yourself on a hugely losing battle, brawlers have been screwed over massively itemization wise since this game started and all I would have to do is to point on the massive difference in the many weapons and shields available to any plate tanks in this expansion when compared to the absolute few and garbage weapons brawlers have been given.

BChizzle wrote:

I guess our brawler is just an exception because he does great, tanks great, DPS's great...and in his words thinks all tanks are even right now. Maybe you should ask him for some advice, I mean if you wanna make yourself better.
Oh and grats on killing an easy mob at the end of wing 2. We ran out of time Sat night....will be dead tonight. As if that fight is such an accomplishment. Think we had it to like 20% on our 3rd pull or something....like I said dead tonight and moving onto better things.
EDIT: Oh and I want to correct myself about my statement earlier. I did not mean the ONLY tank that can stand up to him during that time....I meant the BEST tank to stand up to him.

Bruener wrote:

Your brawler worships the ground I walk on. And as proven countless times with your statements he clearly doesn't communicate well with you when it comes to brawlers, all anyone has to do is look at your past posting around brawlers which exhibits very little clue as to how the brawler class works. Rewind to a month ago when you didnt even realize our avoidance was tied to our stances. Using Cory as an example for your argument just displays how much better a tank he is then you in every way rather then anything about how classes are balanced. I mean lets be real you are the same guy thats claiming bard and tank dps is on the same level.

Bruener is Azure Skies?

BChizzle wrote:

LOL, you are deluting yourself if anybody even looks up to you in this game. Cory is easily 3x the player you are as a Brawler, and you can go ahead and ask him how he feels about my ability as a tank. You can ask anybody I play with and I am confident of their answer. I am sorry you just don't seem to have a clue on how this game works. Yes Bards can parse right along with fighters....it is not hard to see, mostly because the majority of everybodies DPS comes from the same place...temp buffs from other classes.
But hey lets ask the people that know you what they think of you.....I am sure everybody is in consesus there too, at least the people we know mutually, unfortunately the outlook isn't good....
And yes Vinka as the profile says I am AS, have been for a long time now. Fantastic guild with great players that don't feel like raiding 5-6 nights a week. Killin as much stuff as a lot of guilds that do raid that much. Toon name is Duele.

Bruener wrote:

I think Cory is good, but lets be real, Ive tanked more, I dps higher, and pretty much beat him in every possible measuring stick you could come up with except for hours spent in battlegrounds. But you keep making absolutely outlandish statements about tanks being balanced (despite the fact there are more SK's alone then brawlers combined) or that tanks parse at the same level as bards (LAWL).
Fact is the last time plate tanks cried about immunity to strikethrough you were claiming we were at the same mit levels as plates while parsing the same (LAWL AGAIN). Maybe you guys should bring up the whole part where we are the best choice to tank on Hard mode klaak because of his higher strikethrough, you know the mob whos biggest challenge is his fear which any crusader can be completely immune to.
Facts are immunity to strikethrough makes about a 10% difference in avoidance which is easily offset by the fact that we are forced to turtle up to even avoid anything while you can tank the same mobs full out offensive.

I have nothing against Azure Skies (in fact I like them very much), they're a solid guild that gets things done and doesn't start drama. I can assure you than any disagreements you and I may have are entirely with you, not your guild. All I have to say is
1) Waansu does not have 75% strikethrough and
2) Cory is an awesome player and an awesome person

Vinka@Antonia Bayle wrote:

Well I would hope that any disagreements anybody has with what I say is with me and not my guild....they are 2 entirely different things. As for the Waansu comment I have no clue what Waansu's strike-thru is and am not the one that stated such...instead I gave an example of a mob that at times has 100% strike-thru, something Blanka said doesn't exist.
Yes Cory is great, and despite what Blanka may believe there are players such as Cory that can do everything he can plus some without all the drama. There is a lot of mutual respect between Cory and I and I am still LOL'ing thinking about asking Cory about him worshipping the ground that Blanka walks on....gonna make for a good guild convo.

Bruener wrote:

I knew and raided with your guild before you were even on the server. I knew them when the better half of GOTJ turned into Azure Skies. I've like every Azure Skies person I've talked to, but tbh I probably wouldn't like you since I don't like when people pull made up things out of the air and try and pass them off as fact to keep other classes down. It is great that you found a guild that puts up with you, but just because you are in it doesn't mean any single one of them agree with your views, rather from my experience they laugh at what you say much like the rest of this forum.
Until you admit that that tanks aren't balanced, and that crusaders are overpowered compared to every single class in this game nobody is going to take anything you say with any bit of value.
Ill also let you know that brawlers arent the only class that can stay in for a short time on the mob you stated in fact any tank with a stoneskin temp can stay in as well as one like an SK that can just let the hits shoot off their bloodletters. But the mob isn't designed to stay in even for a brawler you are meant to joust it so your example is complete garbage. Keep trying though, when SOE makes a mob that is actually 100% strikethrough all the time you can come here and QQ about it. I look forward to your thread about brawlers being OP because they are the best choice for one mob in this game while SK's are used for the rest.