Look, I'm sorry if I misused one word. I think you pretty much got the point as that's all you complained about.
More evidence that Stormhold is Befallen, or the devs messed up: The "The Bone Bladed Claymore" quest states this: 'I have taken the ancient sword from it's resting place in Befallen' You get the sword from Stormhold near the staircase. That's pretty concrete if you ask me.
Have you read the story on the claymore. Chestguard the qeynos knight took it from befallen and had it with him when he made stormhold keep. And like in befallen it went all undead. So in someway its a copy of befallen yes but it actual gaming story its a differant place with its own story even if its not so unique its a DIFFERANT place. Also About blackburrow QEYNOS IS NORTH(destroyed was rebuild north of old loc) of its loc in EQ1 so yes the tunnel can be south of the city 500 years later. I know its a strech but a feasable one. Just picture this for a moment. One day the world u knew changes in a instant. All a sudden the ground shakes sky falls and everything is out of wack. Between the moon's falling pieces and the rest of the planet which was kept relatively save b/c of the GODS(they leave and the ground shakes oceans flood and sky rains and thunders and like hurrican winds all over) That can change a place are off center of where they were in eq1 is it likely for that ratical of a change nope BUT possible. land masses shift and with velious(spelling) somewhat melted, which cuases rising water lvls its very feasable for what is in eq2 can happen from what we know in eq1. So in the end its NOT LIKELY BUT FEASABLE with what we know here on earth, And on anther note to agu about exact loc in a world where cities can be relocated to a moon i don't see revalency. Message Edited by iceriven2 on 01-30-2005 12:08 PM
EQOA i was one to take this history i say it doesn't match so its not true, but i was wrong. I been doing some quest and listening to what some NPC's are saying and EQOA lore comes up. Does it match with eq1 nope not at all but through human history when did we think something was so true(world was flat) then find out its not. Same here yes there is nothing in eq1 that says there was a highbourne but how many history books don't have all the fact. i would say all. WE known though several things that leaders for somereason or other keep info or events out of history for as long as possable. So unfortaly you have to think along these lines when it comes to EQOA when comparing EQ1 and EQ2. Events and history that was passed down became distorted and loss simple. just to show another real life example the city of Troy. Was in a greek epic stoy though for ages to not be real when in the 20th C was rediscovered rewriting history books, point in case EQ bring what really happens when consider "Lore" to a fantasy world yes its a game i wish it was more cut and dry but it is not. Plus the way all the "lore" is it keeps things wide open for new stories that are from the past( other word expansions)
Actually they do, EQlive was out long before OA, EQOA's lore did not match up with EQLive, therefore 3/4 of their lore is faulty and should not be taken into any account. There that wasnt hard
Ok, my humble opinion on the Stormhold/Befallen issue is this.... Devs create the Befallen Dungeon to be placed in the appropriate area. Devs realize they need a dungeon on Antonica and don't have time to build one from scratch. Devs place Befallen Dungeon on Antonica and rename it Stormhold. Devs write lore to tie Befallen and Stormhold together and explain why there's a dungeon in Antonica that looks a whole lot like Befallen. But hey, what do I know.
So you're saying there's a Befallen, but then a clone of Befallen that's not really Befallen but Stormhold and the claymore is in the clone of Befallen called Stormhold but it still thinks it's in Befallen? Right.
By that logic, none of EQ2's lore should be taken into account, since obviously so much of the lore here doesn't match up with EQLive either. Destroyed wizard portals in places they never existed in Live? Blackburrow and its Everfrost tunnel? Nektulos Forest to the west of Commonlands? Befallen/Stormhold controversy? And the list goes on. Maybe we should just not even bother with any of it, since none of it matches up perfectly with your immaculate vision of the lore EQLive. :| Message Edited by Jaron95 on 01-30-2005 11:00 PM
ummmm yeah u might have it right i know it confuses me a little. Stormhold my have been a copy of befallen but in game lore says they are two seperate zones.
Look blood, I tried to be as nice as I could with telling you that you were wrong about lore, but now I'll be blunt. You obviously have no earthly clue how lore works in any way at all. In every game with lore, more lore is brought up that was never known before when there are expansions and whatnot. EQlive was made from whatever vision Scott Smelding (sp?) had at that time. He comes up with more ideas along the way and puts them into effect on expansions, thus, Highborne, Fayspires, and other things.
Uhh, you know the devs for EQlive and EQOA were for the most part completely different, EQ2 had a lot of the old devs. Yeah a lot of EQ2's lore doesnt match up but most does. EQOA on the other hand is way far off, sure there are some simularities, but for the most part it's folly.
I read through a lot of the posts on this thread and I admit I'm pretty bummed about the sloppy layout of some of the zones, particularly Antonica. But I don't really think Blackburrow is in the wrong spot at all. After reading this post I was pretty annoyed by it, but then I thought about the difference between EQ1 and EQ2 and Qeynos Hills and Antonica and realized something. Antonica isn't messed up. The cardinal directions are. When you left Qeynos in EQ1, Blackburrow was straight out, and to the right. In EQ2, when you leave Qeynos, Blackburrow is straight out and to the right. It's still in the same relative position. This would also imply that the Shattered Vale is probably supposed to be Surefall Glade, and I'd buy that considering there's a druid ring in it (even though there wasn't one in Surefall, but hey...druids hung out there). Therefore, I don't think they messed up the locations, they messed up the orientation of the whole zone. What's WEST in Antonica ought to be NORTH. The whole zone is 90 degrees off. As for the other stuff like Neriak being in the wrong place, I dunno. I've never been in the Commonlands. However, the thing about Stormhold/Befallen being out of place, I think that's just nitpicking. I'm 100% sure that it was originally intended to be Befallen, but then for whatever reason they decided to move it to Antonica, and thus make up some weak story about why it's not actually Befallen after all. While incredibly lazy and lame...eh, /shrug -- it's good enough for me. I am pretty let down in the Dev team for blowing this sort of stuff. I can appreciate them wanting to make it very different from EQ1 and not simply rehash old geography with new graphics, but some of this stuff should have been a no-brainer. I actually find this aspect of the game the most dissapointing of all. There should have been a lot more continuity in both zones and lore if you ask me. Message Edited by carthago on 01-31-2005 10:03 PM
This may have been mentioned in 6 pages but I am not done reading FG is Foreign Quarter. it was sealed off from the rest of Neriak when the Leatherfoot Raiders attacked after all the DE warriors where sent off to defend Nek Forest (this is part of the Cauldron Hollow access lore). The set up of FQ is very similar to FG in EQ2 the first gate is very much the same first gate in EQ1, the area to the right that used to lead to the Ogre/Troll area has been blocked by a cave in (in the shadowy room). Obviously, this being a new game the set up wont match 100% as the area is an enhanced dungeon experience rather than the small city zone not of EQ1 that was never meant to be used for much more than selling and banking. The door at the end of Neriak leads to the Sanctum of Bone not Neriak, at the very end of that zone is the Seal of Neriak that can be broken, but I do not know if there is anything beyond that (most likely this will be an adventure pack). None of the zones will be 100 accurate with EQ1, for one thing EQ 1 zones where small and confined EQ2 is open and spread out (Example is Rivervale, its a huge sprawling town as compared to the small village in EQ1) and nothing will match 100% otherwise its just EQ1 with prettier graphics. So you need to suspend your disbelief and accept a few oddities in the location of things in game.
Don't, if Runnyeye is any indication Emperor Crush the 4th will be level 60 packing a nuclear bomb lol.
IIRC the leader of the Knights went on a quest for the BBC which would explain why its in Stormhold and not Befallen.
Here is a thought The BBC is sentient, it is quested for by the Knight and taken from Befallen. It then twists its keeper to its own dark desires, Chessguard becomes obsessed with Befallen, to the point of designing Stormhold to be a clone of Befallen at the direction of the BBC. Then the same thing happens there as in Befallen. IRL I think the most likely explanation is that SH was meant to be BF but was moved and the lore was tossed in to explain it away. After all they make corrections to quest wording all the time. Because the quest says Befallen doesnt make it 100% concrete, they could patch it tomorrow to say Stormhold which throws the evidence out the window.
As for EQOA and EQL lore, as I said before in another thread, in terms of RP value, stories, legends and histories become changed and distorted as they are retold, new tellers put their twist on it, histories are skewed to favor the faction of the writer, etc. Especially in a time before digital media, which EQ is. Many inconsitencies can be easily explained away as being changed through the decades as its told and retold. Erud becomes 1 man when in fact he might have been several men, cities are omitted from the telling because their legend might inspire people when inspiration is not wanted. What happens then in a sense is that EQOA is the "Reality" of what happened and the history in EQ:L is the result of 500 years of distortions and retellings. Take King Arthur for instance. Common legend holds he is 1 man, modern belief is skewed towards him being an amalgam of several men who's accomplishments are combined to create an inspirational perfect King. This story is used to direct people's beliefs and actions to a certain path (Chivalry) as they are encouraged to "Be Like Arthur". Think of it as ancient propoganda. Its easier to follow 1 man than a group of men. 1 man has a clear vision and path in front of him. A group has their overall agenda but each member has his own sub agenda. Its easier to rally the masses to 1 man than 4 men. Much the way Kennedy became a great president as his "legend" expanded, He becomes a visionary who led us to the moon and promoted "Ask not what your country can do for you..." (Wow there is a blatant peice of propganda id I ever saw one) rather than a man who A) Cheated on his wife B) Led is into Vietnam and C) almost started a nuclear war and D) had questionable ties to organized crime. So the Highbourne who fled become the Erudites, the leaders of the exodus become Erud the superhuman uniter and saviour of his people. Granted my knowledge of EQOA lore is limited BUT its not about the specifics of the lore but about why the lore might not match 100%. We see lore as gospel truth, we are used to digital media that can perfectly preserve the speaches for the future. But what about lore from the 1300s? If we knew 100% of everything that went on, we would not need historians. We have speculation, commonly accepted theories and rumor. In game the lore from EQOA would be considerably distorted in EQ:L so you cannot take EQ:L lore as 100 truth, same as EQ2 lore of EQL is not always 100%.
I have a whacky idea about the Qeynos/BB thing. I just noticed that Qeynos is an island. Would it be somehow possible if it broke off from the south during the shattering and was pushed north?
