That's one thing we need! A stance / buff that increased defence and avoidance for each creature attacking us.
yeah that would be awesome - kinda like the octorgon octopus in the treaty for treasure isntace where like over 100 skeles can spawn during the course of the fight so you have to kill it fast. only issue with that is, whos computer do you know personally that can handle 1 raid boss + 24 PC's + 30 extra mobs all fighting at maximum attention and strength without moving at the speed of molasses dripping through a funnel. i lag up when i have another group next to mine in regular everyday scenarios. let alone 23 otherpeople trying thier damndest for 30 mins straight and finishing the fight with 9/24 alive all oop. which would be awesome either way... lol thats an epic battle. thats not a bad idea sniper, either way it seems that its gonna take some work to get this balanced out beyond this generic approach that they are taking fix's and patchs - it seems as though if it doesnt help thier marketing scheme in some way (mentoring = timesink tradeskilling = and a 10000000 other things that can be tied to marketing and maximizing profits before twinking the IN GAME schematics..) they arent directly concerned with it right now as far as adjusting classes.
I will tank a raid 4x mob when I get better gear, i.e. some more pelts and maybe a master chest. My guild is ok with it, and more importantly, our guardian MT encourages it.
Weaker taunts/ hate management abilities. Weaker mitigation. Admirable ability to get totally spanked by mobs behind you. That's giving up a lot for a tank. I would rather give up my 10% advantage of dps for Guardian capability. No, I shouldn't have played a Guardian then; class abilities are the last reason I play a monk.
I'm with ya here SomeDude.. I have built my monk around doing nothing but tanking and can't wait to try some raid mobs myself to see what this is all about. Kharza 40 Monk Mistmoore
well thats cool and all, but whats the point in being the second runner? the first time through -- when you dont know what to expect...the best tank is still gonna do the raid first before they stick a monk out there...(probably the first 2 times considering the first time is usually sloppy regardless) and nobodys guild is taking a voluntary wipe, "just to let the monk tank it"... right? or am i trippin?
which brings us all back to my original point as to why there is any push to this at all. (JUST TO SAY YOU CAN)
No, you're wrong. The point to why there is a "push" for this is because of how we are built. We are built to tank. I don't care if you believe that or not, it simply is. Now if we can't tank raid mobs, if our DPS is less than a whole archetype and some other fighters, if our useful buffs are non existant, if our utility isn't useful or desirable on raids.... what is our purpose in the end game? Since we all know that the brawler subclasses are indeed tanks, and as of now we have next to no raid desirability (a long with a lot of classes) the only way I know of to increase our desirability is to ask to be better at our intended role. At least that makes the most sense to me. Just wait until more and more people start hitting 50 and finishing heritages and get tired of harvesting/mentoring. Then you start to look at raiding as your biggest time investment on your lvl 50. When your class plain just isn't wanted/useful in raids and people are telling you to take the 30+ real DAYS you invested into your character and toss it and "reroll if you want raid usefullness" please come back here and tell all of us how much you love the "versatility" of your monk then. Because remember you are commenting on a part of the game where we are balanced and working as intended. No one denies that. But being content with one part of the game doesn't fix another. Soon enough when more and more guilds/players reach endgame and you see just how utterly useless some classes are in raids, then maybe we can discuss this again. Either the archetype system works and they implement it game wide, or they devise another system for raids. Because having 18 of the 24 classes as pretty much "fluff" raid invites is [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot].
Now if we can't tank raid mobs, if our DPS is less than a whole archetype and some other fighters, if our useful buffs are non existant, if our utility isn't useful or desirable on raids.... what is our purpose in the end game? Since we all know that the brawler subclasses are indeed tanks, and as of now we have next to no raid desirability (a long with a lot of classes) the only way I know of to increase our desirability is to ask to be better at our intended role. _________________________________________________________________________________________________________ well we arent going to start this back up again... but im not a *versatility brawler* i personally said leave us with the tanking ability we have now, and give us MORE dps and a unique group buff that only we get. that way - that would make us better tanks despite our "short comings" (in comparison to plates) without all the mumbo jumbo of screwing with deflection and avoidance to high heavens with nerfs and patches and nerfs and patches. thats what ive always been saying... it would cure all the worlds ails at one time. give a unique buff like the one you called overpowered, that is definately useful on a massive scale such as a raid and just ensures kill speed and consistency in regular encounters. we tank just fine 1-50. and come raid time we are 2nd tank/dps/utility without question. that would make us better frontal MT'S since our killspeed/damagetaken ratio would balance out, without having to be twinked into oblivion. and give us a definate spot next to the scouts in the melee damage department doing dps because we will NEVER be better than or on par with gaurdians in AC-HP-aggro control without some major change of some sort. so if that doesnt make sense then i dont know what does. if they let us keep the dps we have now and make our *deflection* just as good as plate armor without the armor and the shield, then we are just gaurdians with fancy animations and extra dps...(but they cant let us have both because then we become *overpowered* and the true *best* of both worlds. which would be nice - but we know better... that would solve EVERYONES ISSUE at once.. which is what ive been *pushing* for all along. Message Edited by SageMarrow on 03-17-2005 12:21 PM
I have not posted alot, but regularly read the Bruiser and Monk forums. For you to tell any Bruiser to not post in the Monk forums, regardless of what thier post may be about is asinine Gage. You make alot of good points about Brawlers and our roles and skills, but I know I've read you saying that Monks and Bruisers are basically the same. So why are you basing your banishment of the OP to the Bruiser forums on the fact that he is not a Monk? Conveinence? Just because he raises the question of Brawler as DPS role that you hate so much (no idea why you hate it so much but hey whatever floats ur boat) doesnt mean his poll or POV has no merit. You group Bruisers and Monks together all the time on the Bruiser boards (and I happen to agree, the difference is negligable). Dont knock the OP for doing the same here. My personal opinion is that we are Tanks that can DPS at near scout lvls. My DPS hasn't dropped since ur post on 06 March. Here's hoping it never does. Orroro 40 Bruiser Faydark server
Because he posted the EXACT same thread in the bruiser forum at the EXACT same time. That's why. If you don't see a flaw in being a tank that does DPS "near scout lvls" then it doesn't matter anyway.
No Sage, its better if your ask yourself that. "My" purpose and "my" supposed crusade is only what SoE has said all along that our class is for and intended to do. All of these other ideas/arguements/etc are players wants/perceptions/needs. I'm not asking for my tank subclass to be made into a scout, or to be given some uber buff of unbalanced chaos. I just want to do the role we are made for better in the end game.
NO WE ARE NOT BUILT TO TANK>>>> WE ARE BUILT TO PANZER ... (smaller more mobile vehicle, less heavily armored, less survivability compared to a REAL tank.) and no - this post never made it to the bruiser forums... so burst that bubble buddy. this was strictly a monk question, there are alot more monks than bruisers buddy, there are alot more monks that take more pride in what they do or dont do than you buddy. so thats why i asked the MONK community - not the bruiser community- the bruiser community is about as thin as anything, and ontop of that - you wont hear their mouths until a nerf happens. so if you can compare yourself to a gaurdian and say that you were BUILT to tank over or near a gaurdian or in almost the same capacity, please stop smoking whatever it is that you are. so one star me all day. i dont care - it wont matter in the long run. i dropped the argument on this long time ago- so those of you without common sense have at it how you like. what class that was "Built to tank" doesnt get a taunt for 20 levels and has to use group buffs to lock in aggro and cant take a punch from anything 5 levels higher (or 4 without elite gear), without an incoming wipe? surely not monks, yeah right= you werent built to tank - you were built to off tank - post agility nerf. how many ways to i have to say it: (one star this lol) a.) will never have the same amount of HP b.) will never have the same amount of mitigation which equals consistency in tanking c.) deflection is and will always be random and not worth the risk when a gaurd with more of the above is available. d.) no attacks with taunts built in for aggro building. e.) lower ac and defensive capability that will not ever get on par with a raid mobs attack capability due to the trivialization of EVERY THING else in game. f.) the classes will never be balanced around raids, they are only in game to tide over high level players until an expansion comes out with more levels to obtain.. (if the game went to level 100 we wouldnt be having this discussion till about a month or two from now, and you STILL would be a sub par ENDGAME "tank") So with that being said, feel free to post a rubuttle to that... wont do anything but make yourself look down right stupid.. let it go. raids are for the sole purpose of keeping high level customers in game so that you have a goal until they can expand on it from there. there is nothing complicated or new about raids, same principle as any other fight- only the mobs have 80k HP. no advanced AI or anything different- just stand in front - hold aggro - drain power - wack away until dead. for players that are hard core and want to play their "MAIN" and spend alot of time farming loot for the best weapons and armors available. before expansion 1 there will be a few players with full raid armor for what??? so that they can just upgrade again at level 55, and all that work was for nothing? PROBABLY- but it kept you interested long enough to get to level 55 without you quitting or going to another game. SOE mission accomplished...get a clue.
No Sage, its better if your ask yourself that. "My" purpose and "my" supposed crusade is only what SoE has said all along that our class is for and intended to do. All of these other ideas/arguements/etc are players wants/perceptions/needs. I'm not asking for my tank subclass to be made into a scout, or to be given some uber buff of unbalanced chaos. I just want to do the role we are made for better in the end game. _________________________________________________________________________________________________________ yet you have no earthly clue as to how they can do it without making us gaurdians??? the raid mobs aint changing - and you cant be changed to fit them - so yet again - all of you mighty one star posting monks or whoever else... PLEASE LET ME KNOW HOW TO DO IT????? (make raid mobs easier? then a guard will still tank better than you lol_) (make specific raids that ONLY WE can tank, then the guards wont have anything to do, which im sure you dont care). We have said all that already - so if you have a REAL solution MONK TANKERS, post it, otherwise dont read on. after the inevitable had been seen, gangster - family man - and almost everyone is quit posting about this- you will never tank raid mobs in the highest capacity, you will ALWAYS BE SECOND CHOICE, whether you are capable or not. as another poster said a while back. its either going to be a roaring success or a miserable failure- which is still INCONSiSTENT while mitigation is not. and in a 40 min fight - you WILL for the most part get 4 bad rolls and die... its just about gauranteed at some point during a 40+ minute fight. and NO- this is NOT SOE"S game - IF WE BECOME GUARDS WITHOUT THE GUARD- you, and ur band of misfits will be the only ones left playing this game. because if it happens to us - then sony has taken the easy way out and the rest of the classes will soon all be templars. there will be no such thing as raid balance. or diversity for that matter - and there will be 4 classes and a buncha fluff...so my opinion matter greatly - i pay thier bills. if we organized a group strike until everyones class bugs and balance issues were sorted... you best believe we would get some s*h*i*t fixed in a hurry...(they just know they have enough noobs to keep the circulation going cause they see the pretty graphics and play on into a tizzy thinking this is the best crap in the world. ) so gage just cause YOU wanna Raid tank for YOUR guild when they get to level 50... go play a class that can do so- since you can get a level 50 char in 43 days- get u a gaurd and do that- quit being reluctant to work brother. cause something tells me that even if a guardian in your guild surpassed you in AC = HP = and aggro control ability...you still wouldnt let him raid tank... poor guy would have to play dps behind the mob eventhough hes better than you..not out of player skill - but simply because he is better equipped at his core. it could be a monkey typing behind the computer for all you know. but the proof is in the gear and stats... not the "player skill"... yet again - get a clue. tanking a raid for the most part aint complicated- zone in - the mob is sitting there waiting to get ***** by the angry mob of adventurers who are all alike but different in a similar way...wow Message Edited by SageMarrow on 03-18-2005 05:19 AM
Oh. http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=7&message.id=4121#M4121 ^^^^From bruiser forum ^^^^From monk forum Not only did you post it in both forums, you copy/pasted. Its the exact same post. Quit lying. You had a bunch of bruisers tell you its a tired and old arguement too, and that bruisers are tanks. Message Edited by Gage-Mikel on 03-18-2005 09:22 AM
well if you noticed - i honestly forgot :smileyvery-happy:... not a lie at all - haha- i didnt post anything there - i actually forgot it was sitting over there after than day or so... either way- ironically enough... you didnt say anything about anything else.... EDIT:: and now that i read it - i posted my opinion there ONCE, and never looked at it again until you found it. and you know thats not like me to let my opinion go unheard... work with me commons sense/ work with me please. Message Edited by SageMarrow on 03-18-2005 10:43 AM
Go back to your bruiser forum or the brawler forum Sage. Get the frak outta the monk forums. BAHAHA! Common sense?! With you? Common sense would dictate that if you're a fighter, you tank. Afterall, that's what the basic tenet of the archetype system is about. FIGHTERS TANK. PRIESTS HEAL. SCOUTS STAB. MAGES NUKE. Makes sense doesn't it? Well, if you had any common sense it would. =P
