diablo??? did anyone say diablo? what about a gaurdian, a templar, an assassin, and a wizard? who said anything about balance??? we only got 4 classes here right? what are you other 20 idiots doing here?? we dont need you for anything...go home. these are the everquest 1 auditions... Message Edited by SageMarrow on 03-18-2005 11:54 AM
Being in the fighter = tank archetype doesnt mean that Monks should be able to tank everything. It only means we tank better then any mage, scout or priest class! And it doesnt matter what you quote from any SoE employee / official statement. They get payed to keep the community happy and are basically salesmen that know how to formulate their sentences to make you believe you heard what you wanted to hear while not making any hard commitment regarding the issue.
Umm gage, it makes perfect sense for them to not LIE, but play around the issue. the game is split 3 ways. those that know = Computer programmers and 6-7 year MMORPG players those that think they know = majority of players here now, limited experience in marketing and programming, PnP players with equal expectations. those that dont know = Fans of the game, of the company, new players to MMO's totally, compare the game to something else out there and take what they can get as opposed to asking for top notch efficiency on every level. So yes, SOE has to please all these people at once. Most players are somewhere in the middle, i admit that i am as well, i also believe that you are too. They tell us what we need to hear, the bottom rung will take anything as long as its informational, (if they know where it is to read it in the first place). and the Upper Rung (those that know), merely shake their heads and laugh at us squabbling because they know better... Take this post from moorguard:: To be clear, these new recipes do not enchant every crafted weapon or piece of armor in the game; only certain ones. The pristine versions of certain weapons and armor can be combined with the magical extracts to make these new items. If an adventurer already owns the appropriate weapon or armor and hasn't attuned it, the items can be handed to the proper artisan to be used to make the new items. If an adventurer who owns one of the weapons or armor pieces that can be enchanted is of the appropriate artisan class, that person could use the magical extracts to create his or her own enchanted items whether the pieces are attuned or not. The recipe doesn't care whether the item is attuned, but if the item is attuned already it can't be traded to someone else. We don't plan to introduce an unattune function. My point in the chat last night was that these new recipes aren't about giving every adventurer an easy upgrade to their gear. The recipes are being added to give artisans more cool stuff to make. Think of these items as new gear that is being added to the game. Just because a new item was added that has an advantage over something you worked hard to get doesn't mean that your existing item is worthless just because it isn't the best anymore. Standard pristine armor will still have the same value to the wearer and provide exactly the same protection; it just happens that something new has come along. =========================== Moorgard EverQuest II Community Guy ______________________________________________________________________________________________________ now if you read those two paragraphs in red, its apparent that it is total bull crap and a way to get themselves out of the fact that they do not want to implement an unnattune faction because of multiple reasons. It is also common sense that pure adventurer types have no other purpose or real use for fun outside of perfecting thier characters. Farming money for loot, as well as farming loot from mobs and raids in an attempt to be the *best*, or at least a good character right? but not being able to have the **best** without starting all the way over in order get the **best** ebon/augmented armor, is clearly unfair for those in game that have worked to get the full suit of ebon or augmented to be told that something better will be available next patch. now i say all that to say this, YES they do use a LARGE amount of PASSIVE and DOUBLE speak in order to please the masses and not get killed behind these issues that are openly game shifting and uprooting for many. :smileyhappy: Message Edited by SageMarrow on 03-19-2005 11:55 PM
Sage, you are an idiot. Period. No one was ever promised that their t5 rare armor would be the best for any amount of time. In fact it isn't the best. There are tons of master chest armors out there that are better. The new stuff is *TWO* pieces. The BP and the legs, and certain weapons/items. This is NEW its not an upgrade. You have to have an additonal component and subcombine to get the BP/leggins with the proc. *IF* someone makes a t5 rare piece of armor after the patch without that other rare, THEY GET THE SAME ARMOR THAT IS IN THE GAME NOW. They aren't lowering stats, lowering AC, etc etc. Its the SAME [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] ARMOR. The enchantment process being added is a *NEW* feature and enchanted armor is a *NEW* type of crafted armor. Since when is anything fair. What about when expansion comes. Do people who buy all ebon armor before the expansion expect to get a full suit of t6 rare armor the next day? New content/items are always developed and released. If people are that [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] worried about an in game investment and are huge whiny [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] cry babies who feel some sort of ENTITLEMENT all the [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] time then they should just sit around and never buy anything, because who knows what is going to be in the next patch. Also your stupid list of "types of players" is utter BS. 6 to 7 years of MMO experience doesn't mean anything for two reasons: 1) You can continue to be an idiot with crazy ideas for 7 years, hell an entire lifetime. 2) YOU AREN'T DEVS. YOU GUYS DON'T GET PAID TO MAKE/BALANCE THIS GAME. YOUR OPINION IS JUST THAT, AN OPINION. THERE ARE ABOUT HALF A MILLION OF THEM OUT THERE ABOUT EQ2. UNTIL YOUR NAME IS IN RED, YOURS/MINE/ALIENS/OUR GRANDMOTHERS OPINIONS REALLY DON'T MEAN SQUAT. We don't get paid to make the game, we PAY to PLAY it. I don't care if you are a programmer for 200 years and you've played every MMO since MUDs for 24 hours a day and run concurrent subscriptions to every MMO available, that doesn't mean your understanding or ideas hold weight or precedence over any other player. You calling someone an SoE fanboy is laughable, since your the biggest negative dillusional conspiracy theorist on these forums. You admitted you don't even PLAY the game. You've never been on a raid. You hardly tank. Yet you think your understanding of the game is better because you go to college for whatever the hell you go for, and you played EQ1 since release. WHO THE HELL CARES. Plenty of people did that. You still make no sense, make wild assumptions, jump to conclusions, exaggerate, etc and so on. Seriously Sage, if you hate the game, the devs and think everyone is lying to you, trying to ruin this game for you, WHY DO YOU CONTINUE TO POST HERE. *sigh*
You don't have a point. You think you understand the game and the devs better than other people. You are irrational, have ludicrous ideas, and speak about things concerning the game that you do not have experience with. You think the devs are paid to lie to us and "pull one over on us". You feel that every change they do is unfair. PLEASE explain to me WHY people deserve to get their attuned armor unattuned and enchanted? WHY does everyone feel such ENTITLEMENT in this game? OMG GIVE ME A RESPEC, OMG GIVE ME ANOTHER ONE, OMG LET ME UNATTUNE MY RARE SO I CAN GET ENCHANTED, OMG ME ME MEMEMEMEMEEMEM GIMME WAH CRY WAH. GROW. THE. HELL. UP. Its a game. It changes. You are NEVER guaranteed anything, ESPECIALLY CONCERNING YOUR ITEMS. They aren't even changing the armor. PEOPLE ARE STILL GETTING WHAT THEY PAID FOR. T5 RARE ARMOR. SAME STATS, SAME AC. NOTHING IS CHANGING. Believe it or not, Moorgard is telling the truth. Enchanted armor is a new item. Period. It requires a pristine BP or leggings to be made, but those are part of the recipe, part of the subcombine. Its not the same item. An enchanted rare BP and a rare BP are D-I-F-F-E-R-E-N-T. Therefore no one is entitled to anything. They got what they paid for and attuned. Rare armor. End of story. You still have NEVER explained to me WHY its in SoE's best interest to LIE to the people who pay their salaries. Please do so. Oh, and I'd rather be a "fan boi" then a conspiracy thinking pessimistic exagerrating blowhard. Message Edited by Gage-Mikel on 03-20-2005 12:28 AM
Good. I hope you mean it. You add nothing to this community but negativity and arguements. Good riddance.
Awwwe, are you intimidated Poor Sage. Its understandable, you make yourself look bad enough w/o being contested, I know. *pats his back*
hmm intimidated... no... to answer your bogus question - yea i took the bait everyone - everyone is not in a raiding guild , and everyone does not raid constantly, those that group and run solo and dont constanty get master chest drops- (heck i havent even seen one yet- and i know ALOT of people with the same luck)... rely on saving up money for other to make things for them. I also know ALOT of people with harvesting skills and dont take a moment out of the day to actually tradeskill. so yes = to those people it will matter. and if you think that everyone who plays this game is on the same level and page, you play a different game from me, saying as though all the people that i am friends with on my server rely on ME to keep THEM informed on changes because they dont come here and read this crap all day. I enjoy it. so i dont mind. you can call me what you will, but as i stated, you compare this game to what you have had in the past and are satisfied with what you get. if you want to splice technicalities as to say that im pessimistic all the time, in real life i expect the worst and hope for the best... but a perfect eq2 would be different classes with custimization options that mattered, with choices of which direction to take your personalized archetype branch, to embody whatever skills that appealed to you, while keeping with the same base of the classes. some devs that spent REAL time on class balance in all if not more situations, class specific armors for each branch (at least) that allowed further custimization of characters, an economic system that was thought out and in place when we got here, not one that evolves as we go with constant uprootings and uproars, a graphics engine that didnt **** 100,000 players that invested in geforce 6 series cards, classes that were built around play style preference, not jobs, AND = i dont mind saying that if this game doesnt evolve into at least HALF of that, then whether or not you/I or anyone else gage likes it- this game will be easily out classed. the graphics WONT carry it. not with MUCH better (conceptually) games on the horizon. and i wont play it as well as many others, this is just eq1 at its class base and concept...whether you like it or not. competition drives players, fun drives players, functionality drives players. so with your phylosophy of "we pay them to play it" you are SOOOO wrong. i promise you - that once anything with the look of Everquest 2 and the feel of WoW comes out... thats where everyone will be. take out the crappy graphics and cartoon looks and put it with everquest 2's engine and mix the gameplay... and what do you get? 750000 + 350000...hmm thats 1 million people playing one MMO. and its NOT hard to do. and will be done in the next 2 years if game designers wise up and quit trying to be "different". i compare this to what this game SHOULD be and what this game was PROMISED it would be...which it is NIETHER or even near that for the most part, everything about the game is next to cookie cutter and designed to make the DEV"S jobs easier. instead of making openly different armors they keep it plain and simple so that they can keep up with it. even if you get to level 200 you will still have the same heritage items and the same armor as everyone else your level. not items that befit your personal play style. all the casters will have the same crap, all the tanks, (minus us light armor guys) on down the line... there should be mana regen items as well as attack increasing items... so if you wanna be a power house 1 shoter caster you can = and if you wanna be a multiple caster over time you can as well. while there would be NO real difference in dps, it gives you a sense of individuality to say that one is more useful on a raid and the other is more useful on exp groups... while they still balance out in the same capacity. but the game wasnt built like this- if you played eq1 - then you would understand ALL the referecens, as much as you shout to the high heavens this isnt eq1, its still VERY VERY VERY similar brother. take it how you want it. believe it or not. and its leaning more in that direction EVERY DAY... ask around to players that come from eq1 and for the most part they will all tell you. same skit different day.
im here because im waiting for either the uprise or the fall out. IMO - you dont release a game if its not finished... point blank. and if you liked the archetype system, you wouldnt want to be a guardian without the gaurd and the ian...called monk and no i dont compare it to eq1 and am not satisfied, i compare it to eq1 and see the same darn game= same core of killing unintelligent steam roller mobs - same holy trinity of classes that are useful. (dont debate it please) and my opinion of the perfect eq2 would accomodate all - you me - gangster - sniper - neverlift - thrall = and everyone in between. and even some guy who played eq1 and wanted to still be his monk - and some guy who wanted to be a tank with fancy animations. and in case you havent noticed, eq2 doesnt even attempt to please every gamer, they build the game around what wil make them the most money... by not fixing what is wrong but adding in crap like mentoring so that friends will get friends to come and play, the trial of the isle, tradeskilling/timesinking - things that make long term money and keep players playing... (dont debate that either) everything doesnt have to be said aloud for you to believe it or think it gage, im am a huge context clues and pyschological presence of thought kinda guy. (aka thinking about stuff on a deeper level than what is seen or heard). and those that do that and dont accpet everything the devs say as concrete and truth get eaten alive by people like you who do. whether you believe it in Real life or not. everyone and anyone on this planet has an alterior motive behind every finger they lift in a lifetime. you lose purity of thought and spirit at the age of 3. thats not opinion- thats psychological FACT. so take that here, and what do you get? that means things that are put in game so that they can compete with numbers because SOE has MUCH more to prove than blizzard, SOE has MUCH more to lose than blizzard, SOE has MUCH more MONEY to pay back to investors than blizzard. And that too is also Marketing FACT. who do you think provided all the funding for everquest 2's new engine? it darn sure wasnt eq1 sales and revunue. because that still has its own functioning cycle going on that every penny is needed to break even as well as make profit on the top end. Eq2 was built with SONY money. Sony online entertainment is a subset of SONY the COMPANY. with that idea in mind that it would be yet another profitable avenue for the company as well as put them on top as far as prestige as they are in most other avenues of the technological world of being affordable quality product. Playstation 2, televisions. dvd players, etc Business FACT. So if you think for one second their arses are not under the fire to get sales and subscriber subscriptions up, you are insane brother!!! its okay to compete, but its not okay to be outclassed by a game that costs less to run and costs less to make. The CEO of sony that funded everquest2 doesnt give a hot darn about quality gaming, all he knows is that he has to meet his numbers for the month and every month, to break even, then make profit, and NO= sony is not aiming at breaking even... i promise you that. Now you ask why would they lie? because they have to keep subscribers. period. now you say that they cant please everybody, yes they can...but it will take alot more work than they can and or are willing to do. thats why NO MMO has done it yet. it would take alot more work than they have the time and money to give... i and everyone else just assumed that over the course if 3 years they wouldve gotten it right with everquest 2.. and if you think about it = the 2 years they spent building the graphics engine from scratch, coudlve been much better spent on class balance and economic stability of the game.... and i wouldnt mind if i got stuck in a wall or two along the way... and this is just another one of my outlandish assumptions is guess, but most would see it the same way. Message Edited by SageMarrow on 03-20-2005 02:20 AM
I think the biggest failure of the developers in this game is that they did not make EQ2 different enough that the players coming from EQ1 couldn't fall into their same game plans and roles. Because those old, tried, and true game plans still work, the EQ1 player says to himself "Same game, different graphics engine". The thing that is interesting is that even SWG is revamping their combat engine to be like EQ2. Expect to see crowd control, and hate management there. Expect to see scalable armor and weapons just like here. Pretty soon the tactics that work here will work there too. While this is a different combat engine than EQ1 is is similar enough that the roles remain the same. I fully expect to see someone who is like a "Guardian" class in SWG, and the tanking debates will rage there as well probably. It sort of makes me sad that SWG took this path. I'd like to play totally different games each time I go out and by a new software box. Why pay extra each month to play a game that is essentially the same with a different theme and skin. I am sure the people coming from EQ1 feel this way, and by rights they should. If you take a game and redesign it totally from the ground up, but you leave in place the halmarks of its predecessor, you leave all the roles in tact, you have all the same villains and monsters, you have the same skills and spells, then really you have the same game. If I invent a gadget, and someone comes along and improves it a bit and calls it gadget2, it's still a gadget. The same people who bought my gadget are going to like gadget2 because its better, but they still buy it because at its core its a gadget.
Well, it doesn't really matter what is supposed to be or what will be. As a guy who's healed monks/bruisers as tanks and guardians as tanks, I'd rather have a plate wearer every day of the weak and twice on tuesdays. SOE has huge, huge, huge, huge work to do before that's fixed. If they lower tank damage before they raise monk/bruiser defense then you're all just screwed royally.
Let me guess, Inquisitor or Templar? But it doesn't matter, I've had each of the various healers keep me up just fine in single healer scenarios
