I'm not saying you're not a good tank, or you haven't had good healers. I'm saying that from where I'm sitting, a skill that does a notable amount of damage to you for not all that large of a DPS kick is shooting yourself in the foot if you're the MT. Let's just agree to disagree and focus our rage against Guardians. ;-)
from your logs with master 1 you are doing good dps and it looks liek a worthwhile skill if pulling large amount of blue/white mobs...I am saying I felt at 21/22 it was not doing enough damge to jsutify post nerf...that is jsut my opinion howver.. I do believe it scales and whether its as worhtwhiel at 21 as it is at 40 is up to the person using it. I am simply saying that skilsl scale and that each point on the way to peak may or may not be as balanced as the other points. For 50 points damge when MTin I cant see it worht it in the 20s however at 30 we get another nice boost in damage so maybe its worht it then I have not sued it as I do not have predefined guild group and pickup groups rarely if ever pull blues enmass without major issues. I dont agree taht saying ..hey Im 40 and blood rage is worht it....as a flat out statement for all lvls is one i dont share welcome to your opinion however ,again, from your logs it looks worhtwhiel in the scenerio you wer ein for sure.. Message Edited by OverlordMLF on 12-06-2004 09:11 PM
I've only got Adept I Blood Rage..my Berserker Barrage is Master I tho. But really EVERY group fight we do I use Blood Rage before I pull. And not once have I had any troubles using it in a fight. I usually have an Inquisitor and a Defiler or Warden in my group. So I always have at least 2 healers when we fight. But when I was duoing in Feerrott with my Inquisitor buddy I'd put buffs up then run into the groups with Blood Rage and throw a Stunning Cry (if no healers in group.) Really though you guys/gals are going to need to play around with it more before you come to the conclusion it's not worth using. I'm just trying to help here. If you don't want to take the advice you don't have to. But just know that I will keep using it because really it's more efficient and in the long run the loss of health is remedied by having healers. You might need to play around and let your healers get used to it. But really it does help with our DPS.
Blood Rage maxes out at 31. So 31+ its not going to do anymore damage then at 31. From 21-31 yeah at levels it will start doing more damage, but at those levels the mobs you are fighting its scaled to just right. I've not said that at 40 its awesome. I've said that its been great to use from ever since I got it (yes I know when I first got it was overpowered, and funny thing as I said before I didn't use it much because I thought it was still broken from Beta.) Use it or don't its your decision. Just know that when you do use it in a group that your very familiar with you will get a great jump in DPS from it.
Perhaps its still a level thing though, despite the skill damage not scaling much after 30... I know at lvl 23, the damage I take per hit as MT can be pretty gruesome (and I have reasonable AC for my lvl), with my health sitting around 1200 buffed, and mob hits around the 350ish mark not unusual (over 1/4 of my health in -one- hit), I could find myself in trouble pretty quickly if I use bloodrage and get a couple of those attacks on me. How does mob attack strength scale vs HP at lvl 40 and beyond - not talking worse case, but for your average group-grinding mobs? Perhaps thats the reason we're noticing a big disparity in the utility of the skill.
I'm a level 22 berserker now, and I use this for every multi mob fight I have. I also MT, and I have had no issues with the one bub of health, since I have that back before I get hit anyway. This almost always goes off at least 3 times a fight (occasionally I get the 0-2 range, but not very often), usually before the first mob is dead. Most multi fights are mobs of 3-4, so just assuming it is three mobs, this is almost 500 less damage overall that has to be done to complete the encounter. This combined with furious onslaught does pretty good damage overall IMO. Even fighting the groups of gnolls in TS that barrage has caused me no health issues as far as tanking.
I take it back, I think you miss the entire point. Message Edited by OverlordMLF on 12-07-2004 07:11 AM
I did some testing last night with my 23 zerker and the results came out exactly as I had thought they would just from casual use of blood rage. 1 hand + shield vs grey double up mob on auto attack = 0 procs in 3 fights dual weild vs same mob on auto attack = 1 proc in 3 fights 2handed axe vs same grey mob on auto attack = 12 procs in 3 fights !!!! Are you using 2 handed by any chance Theyne? i have noticed it seems to proc ALOT more using 2 handed and is very very worth the cost, but with 1 handed and dual it is so rare I am usually just hurting myself by using it. These were the same results I had seen using it casually while grouping but had never had the same mob under controlled circumstances to test it. If i am planning on blood raging, I whip out the 2handed axe.
could you _please_ give us the same parse but three time, once each with a different type of weapon (DW, 2h, 1h+s) ? this would realy help the discussion moving forward.
Hrm, can't post for Theyne, but I generally use 2H when off-tanking, and certainly don't get those kind of figures... Auto-attacking: 0 to 1 proc per fight. Spamming every attack I have as soon as it recharges: 0-2 procs. If I fight a 3-4 mob group, starting with Blood Rage, then AoE, then spamming specials, I can usually pull a proc or two out of the hat, but I'm not seeing nice rates.
It seems to be that way for me ever since I got the Jagged Blade of the Berzerker off the black market, Recently got a Berik sword and if Im not MT, I switch it out for the Jagged Blade and have seen as many as 7 procs back to back, (hit Furious Onslaught and saw it go off twice before the Onsalught numbers ended) then went off like a shotgun, BOOM BOOM BOOM. My gf looked over and asked WTH I was doing to make the booming sounds hehe . Now I put Berik sword back on or my duals and I'm lucky to see more than 1 or two procs a fight with the same tactic and frequently 0 procs. Message Edited by Keethe on 12-07-2004 08:29 AM
I have no Dual Wields atm that are worth using at 42. I use the Treebane 2handed axe almost always except for doing some of the boat access or tougher fights (that I use my Venomous Voulge and Primitive Kite shield on.) But yes when I use 2hander it seems to proc more often.
Stupid question Thayne, when useing Blood Rage does the AoE aggro mobs not in the group your attacking? Just curious as I have been relucatnt to use it in duengon type areas.
I can attest that it does not aggro outside your encounter, I was pulling the groups of undead near the ruins for the druid armor quest and found it easier to shoot an arrow at each group and pull all 20 onto me at once and proceed with the beatdown, I noticed that as I switched mobs blood rage would only hit the ones grouped with the current mob I was targetting and a jolly caltorsis knight even came up and stood in the midst of the group to verify it for me.
Was allready answered, but just want to add something. We as Berserkers have 3 kinds of AoE's. We have the Blue Colored Icon Point Blank AoE's that hit any mob in the vicinity. We have the Green Colored Icon Group only AoE's. We also have Blue Icon Berserker Barrage which is a 2 mob Cone Effect AoE (meaning it works in a cone shape hitting mobs only in front of you and not in back of you.) Rampage at level 50 is also a Blue Icon if I recall correctly. And omg yall will love this one. It was a blast to play around with in beta. Its a AoE that everytime you hit a mob it goes off draining your power. Its a FUN one to use, but its very situational.
well an update, the past 2 days I have not seen a single instance of blood rage going off regardless of what weapon I am using. I even spent a while slaughtering greens/greys with a friend to complete a kill quest and popped it everytime I could. nada. It has been relegated to my "3+ group of blue or lower cons and only with a healer" spot. Which really sucks as I have it at Adept I and was really liking it, but not a single proc in 2 days is disconcerting.
When I first got Blood Rage, I thought it was crap and removed it from my hotkeys. Based on the information in this thread though, I thought I would give it another try--I went out and bought BR Adept 1 and got into an unsuspecting guild group to try it out. Long story short, I'm a Blood Rage believer now--I think Adept I made the difference. With 4-7 procs per use at 50-75 or so damage per enemy per proc, it is well worth the self-inflicted 297 damage hit in a large variety of situations, IMO. Now I generally use Bloodlust when main tanking for aggro generation, and Blood Rage when not tanking for added DPS.
well an update, the past 2 days I have not seen a single instance of blood rage going off regardless of what weapon I am using. I even spent a while slaughtering greens/greys with a friend to complete a kill quest and popped it everytime I could. nada. Might be a stacking issue. Note that it doesn't seem to proc with Bloodlust and probably some other abilities active.
aahhhh, that makes sense, I wasn't using bloodlust before when I got all the procs, then after trying bloodlust a little more I fell in love with the almost constant haste, I will try it again and turn it off and on and see what kind of results I get.
