Before you guys jump on my case, I am not talking about the damage it can do. I've seen level 70 rangers crit this art (and combined with a proc from stance and bow) upwards near 10k. Even with perfectionist, we can still only use it once every 10 minutes... It is under powered cause of the recast timer... 15 god darn minutes?! Wizards, Warlocks, Assassins, Brigs and Swashies all can do the same amount of dmg with 1-3 CA and then turn around and do it again in like 45 seconds... Funny thing is how simple the spell is to fix so that it is more usefull than just to be used on a tough boss. Lower the recast timer down to five minutes. Make it so that it can not be blocked/parried or deflected... nor can it miss. It a Wizzies ice nova is resisted they can use it again in what... 20 seconds? If we miss or the attack gets avoided, we have to wait 15 minutes to try again... and let's face it, 99% of mobs are dead (even raid) within 5 minutes. I can't tell you how many dps classes have laughed their ***** off at me when I have told then about Sniper's. Sure they are impressed at the dmg, but then they ask about the recast... that is when they fall out of their chairs laughing. the recast makes the skill useless in 90% of encounters... *sigh* So what does everyone think?
hmm i would love to know what CA my assassin has that does 10k every 45 sec. its not underpowered in the least. assasssins have the same thing decap is a 15 min timer. that is not supposed to be your bulk dps spell. its more of a fun spell imo. every 10 or 15 min we get a nice spike of dmg. wizzy get the 45 recast because they do not get autoattack dmg. they need the short recast on their nukes to attain the high dps we do not.
Sniper's shot is not equivalent to ice comet/nova or assassinate/decaptitate. Storm of Arrows/Rain of Arrows is and you can do 25k+ with it. Every 3 minutes (or 2 minutes).
Not on single targets ... Perhaps increase the damage on Rain of Arrows to ~ 5 - 7.5k ( Fusion ) as well and bump Sniper to ~ 7 - 9k ( Decap / IC )Andariel 70th Ranger - Darathar
Perhaps because I have a master Sniper Shot, but mine says just about 8k on the high end. I have ~400ish strength. Considering we have the focus line, and high ranged crit chance AA, we can usually get crits with this skill. My current HH is 16,143 damage, and that is without Perfectionist (still 8 aas to go), granted, that is raid buffed/mob debuffed, and decently geared. Not saying I would not like it to be up more often, I would, that and Rain both. Actually, i want my AEs up more often more than anything.. man I cannot stand it when people are pulling so fast I have no AEs to use on groups, and my DPS looks pathetic that round. Some faster recast CAs..a real conundrum there.. increased DPS, but also increased power usage/arrow expenditure (not that that cannot be easily solved.. but I am not about to give SOE the benefit of doubt again (hey I played EQLive as well, I have gave enough. Anyways, just saying imo, there are more pressing matters, and it is a skill that is 12 levels old. Merkades, 70th Ranger. Siege, Najena.
Sniper shot is not underpowered in most aspects. The only part of your arguement that i agree with is that is should not be avoidable. Wizards have a 45 sec recast timer on Ice Nova. They pay for this though in their ability to take a hit and also that if the consistantly use Ice Nova and Fusion they will die quickly. Assassins have Assassinate/Decapitate while we have Sniper Shot. These are in essense the same skill. They both have a long recast timer of 15 minutes. Sniper Shot has a much long cast timer compared to Decapitate. The major difference between these two skills is the tier in which they lie. Originally Assassins had the only one shot kill in t5, Dof went live and Sniper Shot was introduced along with continuations of skill lines. With KoS SOE felt it didnt need to make up completely new skills cept 1, Hawk Dive(semi-useful). They decided to just continue on with skill lines. Because Assassinate was out of date as a lvl 50 skill, they upgraded it at lvl 70. All this really does is show the flip floping of top dps among predators. DoF was rangers, now KoS is assassins. Hopefully it will swap with the next expansion or the one after it. As for actual damage it can still hold its own in high damage skills. The key to it is str buffs. At Master 1 with max str it only goes up to 9798. With the use of focus aim and aa lines you can get it to crit with 12k. The secret to getting the really high hits is to time it along with other debuffs. Currently my high hit is 17908 and most of the other people that beat me are assassins.
Sniper Shot is very underpowered IMO. Sniper casting time = 5.0 secs vs Assassin's Decap = 0.5 secs for more damage. Even if you hit 10K on sniper that roughly equates to 2K DPS (not including any forms of casting timers increase) vs. Decapitate at 10K (usually higher) = 20K DPS. But we are talking about 2 different tiers of ca's. Sniper Shot is what? lvl 55? (cant remember) and Decap is lvl 70. And not to mention, with Sniper Shot casting timer so long if you are in any type of big AE fight its almost to risky to attempt a sniper shot. There is nothing worse than going into stealth, starting up Sniper Shot casting timer to have it haulted after 3 secs of casting it :smileymad:
Agreed. sucks when you have to take time to stealth and then all our stealth skills have much longer cast times then others, which kills our dps the most every second your stuck in stealth longer then an assassin you lose out on all that auto attack damage.
Actually it is. 5 sec casting time compared to a .5 casting time strung together with your other high hitting arts (Killing Blow for example) makes Sniper's shot a poor choice to use in attempting to keep up with your DPS. Casting times are killers. Lowering the cast time to three secs would make the art much more attractive in my eyes. Falcon/Peregrian
Snipershot is not underpowered due to the teir of it's origin.. Although our big nuke is underpowered.. you can definitely say that, and for the 5sec cast time I almost find it not worth it, because even with the 22% crit modifier from my AA, I hardly see it crit. (AD3 base hit 4.2-7k, base strength 436...)
If they made Sniper shot too much better rangers would own on both single target and multi-target encounters. Rain of arrows is king, and its even a nice bonus on single target mobs. EX: assuming all cast timers are what they are according to the skill description, Decapitate is capable of doing 25k every 15 mins. Rain of Arrows is capable of doing 6K every 3 minutes. (these are max damages. a 25K decap is considering the ability is M1 and it crits, same with Rain of Arrows, mine is M1 and crits int he 7k range frequently) Now for a little math 15 mins / 3 mins = 5 5 X 6k = 30k I'll keep Rain of Arrows, thanks. Not to mention that if you have it crit on a 10 mob encounter on even one of those fights, your doing somewhere in the ballpark of 40-50k, putting both Ice Nova and Decapitate to shame. I look at Sniper Shot as a nice bonus in the ranger arsenal, i dont need it really, i can average 1.4k-1.9k dps on raid mobs without it, its just an extra attack to use on named mobs. Just keep in mind that for every 1 attack an assasin has, we have a matching one that does lower damage and refreshes faster. Personally i dont like waiting around all fight for 3-5 min recast abilities to pop up, i like to go go go. and as far as wizards, Ice Nova is a blast as long as they got a troub in their group and their tank rocks. it can only be used a few times during a fight max and very carefully because of the lack of aggro management skills.
Well, keeping on track with the discussion, we were discussing the differences between ours, and our predator brethrens single target nukes, and the value we get out of each for our 15 minutes wait time. Assassins get an equivalent to rain of arrows, although I don't remember it's specifications. Message Edited by xMiLoSiSx on 07-13-2006 10:21 AM
Rain of Arrows is the premier ranger ability just as Decapitate is the premeir assasin ability. those are the equivalents. there is no uber assasin AE. in fact ive never seen an assasin parse remotely well in an AE fight
Those are our unique class abilities, yes, but as far as big hit, long reuse nukes go, Sniper and Decap are the ones we look at. By equivalent I meant timer and damage range, I think it's just single target...?
I still do not understand how people can still equate Rain with Decapitate. WHile I like Rain and have it at Master 1, it is not equivalent to Decapitate. How many group mobs do we actually fight? Sniper is single target as is Decapitate. I see the equivalency there. Rain is an AE CA. You may have your opinions on the usefulness of sniper but to discount it because "we get rain at 70" is silly in my opinion. I admit it, I like the big shot. I like seeing a huge number. But Decapitate can beat my critted shot even with a non crit. Look at the high hits on your server, the ones after the bug fix. Who is at the top? Every assassin. I am on Blackburrows list with a 16,683 at position 37. Almost every assassin in Bane is ahead of me. Of the top 10, 9 are assassins and one is a ranger (not sure when that 64K hit was made but I am assuming it was before the bug fix that allowed those). Just once I would like to break 20K. Looking at some of the names on the list, I think the majority of those 11-36 are assassins too. I have hit for almost 9K critting on a rain shot, but dangit, I want to drop that big bomb arrow. If you want to be satisfied with Rain as your "big hit" on trash mobs, thats cool, but give me a better sniper shot. EDITED Just checked. 32 of the top 37 are Assassins. Wow. Message Edited by USAFJeeper on 07-13-2006 12:41 PM
At level 50 you get your premier class spell. That is Storm of Arrows for Rangers, and Assassinate for Assassins. They get upgrades at 70, like all classes get their special level 50 spell upgraded. Sniper's shot *did not exist* until DOF. I'm glad they gave us a big nuke, it's our only really useful ancient teachings spell, in t6 or t7. You guys are too mesmerized by the "big flashy number". Rain of Arrows does *far* more damage over an entire raid than does the assassin one - you can use it every 2 minutes (with perfectionist)!! Sure, they get a big single nuke for the nameds, but so what? That's their speciality. Our speciality, compared to the assassin one, is we get to do massive AE damage. It's also a decent single target nuke, although not as nice as decapitate, of course, in that sense. So you don't get the high hit on the named, who cares? When you parse an entire raid zone, if you use Rain every time it's up, you will have done a lot more damage with Rain than the assassin will have with theirs. Many raid encounters have 2-3 or more mobs in it and for those it will hit for more. It also refreshes 5 times as fast, so even if you just hit single targets, it will do about the same! In return for that, assassins can hit a big mobs really hard when they want to, better than we can. I do agree the casting time on sniper's shot is ridiculous, but I think the whole set of ranged CAs have silly casting times vs. the melee ones.
if you wanted the big hits, youre playing the wrong class. for me, DPS is DPS. i dont care if i have a ton of little hits that add up to the bigs hits, i just wanna get there. personally i like the smaller attacks, it gives me more to do, makes hte class more fun Message Edited by LordAngus on 07-13-2006 11:06 AM
Yes we have underpowered CAs they are Stream of Arrows (a.k.a. random afk button), precise (a.k.a. crap i just wasted 2 arrows), and triple (a.k.a. crap there went 3 arrows I really should take that off the hot bar). Last weekend raid buffed, mob debuffed, fighting Alzid Prime in LoV. I hit Sniper, Veiled, and Rain back to back to back and had crits of 12k, 8k, and 7k sorry thats 27k damage with a quickness. I can't say those arts are underpowered. And you can say whatever you like about Sniper should hit harder cause its on a 15 minute timer but in all honesty thats a lvl 58 CA hitting a LVL 74 x4 raid mob for 12k and I've had it harder. If you want to fix our underpowered CAs great. I'm all for it. Let Steam of Arrows hit for autoranged damage Let Precise and Triple hit for autoranged damage with a damage multiplier for the 2nd and 3rd arrow like: base damage x1.5 for the 2nd arrow and x2 for the third at adept 1. Fix the arts that are underpowered leave Sniper alone.
Sorry but I am NOT playing the wrong class, We are about big hits. If Rain is equivalent to Decapitate why the longer refresh on Decapitate? Why is it the same as Sniper? Why is it called the most lethal attack in the rangers arsenal on the description if it is not? I am not asking for any attacks to be taken away, I just want my big shot to really be a big shot. Not a tier 6 leftover. And most raid encounters are not groups. Even assuming for the moment that they are, how many times even with perfectionist can you get it off? I will answer, once. And I dont think the average encounter is 5, its more like 3 when it is multiple. I assume Amend moves through most raids as fast as we do, so I can tell you at least half the fights, rain is not ready to go again, even with perfectionist. So, lets get rid of the strawman you threw up about my being in the wrong class and the number of little hits. The truth is that Snipers shot is a lot more similar to Decapitate than Rain and the two are vastly different in the damage they do. THey are the same in reuse timer, target etc. The ONLY thing thats the same between Rain and Decap, is that you get both at 70. Message Edited by USAFJeeper on 07-13-2006 02:29 PM Message Edited by USAFJeeper on 07-13-2006 02:31 PM
