The only thing that's changed for us since EoF is a reduced recast on Inspiration. We can still only use it once every two fights if the raid is going fast enough. Before EoF, I could use it once every three fights... big difference. You are probably in a bad group setup. I bet the swashbucklers are getting all the dps buffs and you're getting zilch. Group setup makes the biggest difference in swash dps. Also, Fae are a good only race, so of course there are going to be alot of new swashbucklers. Just wait till they come out with a new evil race, then watch the Assassins/brigands/bruisers roll in...
I play on pvp...on pvp servers, theres not a class in the game i have less than 90% win chance except assissins with new 7 sec jugular (thats pvp duration) + freezing strike (root). In that case, I use my tsunami belt if Im not dead b4 stifle breaks and stack it with my engarde. Only way to beat good ones w/o miracles now. Anyways tho, If swash gets nerfed pve big freakin deal....200 less dps with a big [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] nerf. Swashies get nerfed pvp....our burst dps which is 3-5k then consistent 900 goes to 2-4k consistent 700. This hurts fighting Tank, Templars, inquisiters and wardens. Also Furies with new root line can keep us away to heal thru our burst dps and waste our inspiration (not finesse...but inspiration = Best single timer in the game...better than decap imo, jugular might be better pvp wise). Like I was saying, no need to go tootin our own horn, I'd rather let this thread die cause people alrdy know what we can do, I'd like to keep the noise down
You don't actually need to be overpowered to get nerfed. You just need enough people calling you overpowered and a consensus if formed rightly or wrongly that you're overpowered.... then it's simply a matter of time before a dev gets nerf happy. Sucks, but it's the way it goes. It's doubly sad when a class being good at what it does is grounds for the label "overpowered", because that's all we're looking at with a Swashbuckler. A class that does what it does well.
I actually don't think we're overpowered at all - we just have potential. Many classes have a TON of potential, but players simply cannot realize it. If you realize a swashbuckler's potential, you can do a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]load of damage and outparse alot of people. But...Before I recently bought masters, I was out dpsed regularly by an assassin with TERRIBLE gear, mostly legendary and treasured....Why? Because he knew his class. This was back when I had adept 1's. My average parse was 1100-1300, with an occassional spike up to 1500. He parsed 1500-1600 consistantly. With his horrible gear. He KNEW his class. Now that I've bought my masters and such, and I am very well geared (compared to some others, but I have a ways to go), I parse 1300-1500, consistantly, and a spike up to 1900 is very common. In labs last night, I parsed 1950ish for about 5 fights in a row, and that was just with 2 mob groups. Rangers who know what they're doing have also been known to out-parse me. I think it comes down to skill with your class. Swashbuckler's aren't intended to be top dps, but a swash who knows his class REALLY well can outparse anybody who doesn't know their class as well as he does. Generally I'm only out parsed by people who know their class as well as I know my swashbuckler.
See Leithe, That argument does not hold water. I know how to play my assassin. I was top parser in my guild. Now that EoF has arrived I am #3 behind several swashies. Even a swashy that was regularly parsing 400 below me is out parsing me now. Swashys have made a huge DPS increase almost over night. Other than EoF's arrival, nothing else has changed. Message Edited by Jvaloth on 12-03-2006 04:05 PM Message Edited by Jvaloth on 12-03-2006 04:07 PM
Maybe the swashbucklers know how to play their class more than you know yours Not saying you don't know yours, just that they're more familiar with theirs than you are with yours. The top ranger in my alliance would outparse me by about 200-300 if most of his spells weren't adept I. As a result, I usually beat him by 200-300. The top assassin would outparse me by about 100ish if he had better gear.
Lol, Read what I'm typing Leithe. I was parsing #1 now I'm parsing #3 OVER NIGHT. Did I suddenly forget how to play my class and 2 swashys suddenly figured out how to play their classes? NO. EOF came, Swashy AA's came, and now swashys are the #1 DPS in the game in any situation. Anyway, I'm done trolling here, just a bit miffed that you guys got a massive boost at the expense of a less versatile class such as the Assassin when Swashy are supposed to be Tier 2 dps.
Actually, none of our AA's increase our DPS. Most of them aren't that great except for Reach and the inspiration focus. Neither of them increase damage on anything. Reach increases range at which you can attack from, inspiration lowers the inspiration reuse timer. edit - Correction. Hurricane focus gives a higher chance to hit multiple mobs. However.. it's only 5%. It's not an ENORMOUS difference. A difference, sure, but not a HUGE one. Message Edited by Cocytus on 12-04-2006 04:29 PM
I bet that the big difference is based on the fact that they were ready for the cap to be raised and had a lot more STR. If you can't adapt, you fail. Its not your class, I watched other assassins adapt to the change and get back on top. How did those swashy's get all those EOF AA's overnight? Wow they are good, must be the class...
Lol shaggis :smileyvery-happy: Seriously, this thread is all about loving swashiness... don't come in here crying nerf because your parsed [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] went limp on you. It's one reason I hate parses, nearly as much as I did in WoW--though they're more necessary here as a gauge of *ahem* how well one is playing a dps class, where in that game it's purely for [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] satisfaction--people get all bent out of shape when they play what they consider a dps class and can't hit the top 1 or 2 with ease over people who play their ***** off getting to the top of their game. Imagine if people were concerned with having fun instead of maximizing their dps or finding out who does a better job of maximizing dps than them. *gasp*. Swashies are fun, plain and simple. I've only got a little one, and she dies an awful lot (like my old assy who couldn't solo her way through a blue-waterlogged-con cardboard box), but she's neat and fun, and considering my assy was freakin sweet at her level when I played her in groups, my swashy will be too if I get her there.
I love when someone gets out parsed then of course it is the other class that is uber. As others have said, the only major dps boost we got with AAs is inspiration on a shorter recast, this does add to my dps,we don't pull super fast in raids so I may have this up everyother fight depending on how fast we are pulling. Course then there is the zone, I was out parsed by a conj pet in lyceum it was doing 1500+ some fights, but then that zone is there pleasure palace. There is the AA for huricanne but I hardly doubt 5 % higher chance to proc is overpowering. the 5% more chance to proc poison? ooh scary uber *smirk* course I think all poison using scouts got this. Now if you took some time to actually look out our AAs, you we see the majority of them help our debuffing which I am all for! though I'm just not clear how debuffing more wisdom, or debuffing dps is going to up our dps and make us Godlike. ,Another chunk of AAs increase our range, and a I believe one others reduce another recast with still another adding a bit to a duration of a temp buff.. What are these magical AAs that have added so much to our dps if you would be so kind to tell me? I did find last week I was doing more dmg than ever, but for the first time I had a dirge and inquisitor giving me buffs, OMG nerf Dirges and Inquis they are behind the swashie power! D
I guess its about time I replied again. Did swashy's get coule for their AA line? what are your weapon skills at compared to theirs. Notice anything else about your hit rate %? I think you can piece it together. Over any single fight, nothing changed as far as DPS. Theres ALOT of reasons for what might have happened. Not one of them has to do w/ the new AA lines. It might have to do w/ EoF though. Whats your STR compared to theirs? whats group makeup? Whats the % to hit compared to yours? I know mine is higher than our assassins.
I must admit, I love my swashie. I even try to RP when I can. SOE definitely got the Swahbuckler class right so far (still a few minor bugs post-EOF to work out but I digress). This class is fun.
Swash's are good, unfortunately we have crappy range dps. What comes with massive melee dps is serious vulnerability. If we don't have a tank to dump aggro to we are gimped. If we can't melee, we are gimped. When it comes to raiding, a swash is great for mowing through trash, but when it comes to taking down various named mobs we can really make a healer work overtime. Raiding, swash's shine in the MT group. We do alot of AE damage that we can transfer (keep in mind AE) to the main tank.
That's because we're not a ranged DPS class. A week or so ago, I was grouped with an Assassin, up in SoS, that was 5 levels above me. He & I were running neck-&-neck as far as DPS went; some fights I out-DPS'd him, other times he out-DPS'd me. I don't know what the difference was between our equipments, because I didn't bother looking or asking. I did, however, get the impression he wasn't being as "active" as I was. There are MANY times when I FEEL overpowered. But feeling is a ways from being, & I know full-well that I'm not all that & a bag o' chips.
*grabs cane and shambles into the room* Listen ye young whipper snappers. I've said this time and again. Very few seem to see the light. DPS for swashies is an ancillary benefit. Our primary role, our single purpose, is debuffing the mobs offensive capabilities. Our real job is to reduce the DPS the mobs do. Our seconday job is to do a truckload of DPS. Arguably, we are a tier 2 DPS class, not tier 1. Swashies posting top DPS on raids are either exceedingly well equipped, or raiding with Tier 1 classes that aren't doing enough. We can do tier 1 dps at times which rocks, and a well equipped swashy with great poisons, high strength, buffed to holy hell with a great weapon using inspiration is truly a sight to behold. But our primary goal is debuffing. Everyone seems to forget that. A swashy doing their job on a raid is a swashy that is ensuring that the raid targets are doing half their normal damage output and can't hit the tank.
Many of what others are saying are spot on. I've been a MT swashie on our raids for some time now. The benefit of this is I don't worry about AoEs unless the healers are getting low on power. This certainly helps my dps. I'm also very dependent on buffs for high dps. We had an inquis in the MT group for one of our raids this past weekend and it made a huge difference in my dps. If I don't get buffs my dps is impacted quite abit, only makes sense as for my build auto attack dmg can be 40% (or more) of my total dps. So in that sense our class may be the one most enhanced by dps /haste buffs. I can out parse our wizards for dps in some fights but they aren't in full proc gear and we have no support for wizzies on our raids . So the dps they do is all on their own. While I will have some form of dps buff, hate transfer to the MT and safety from most AoEs. I too find on names my dps can be spotty, AoEs with knockback (if I'm not jousting I now position my back against the wall to avoid having to run back). Fear etc all impact me, (as they do all the melee classes). The other thing to keep in mind is the one AA that increases zone wide parses for swashies came pretty early in the AA tree, It came with 11pts (I think). My guess is the assassin and other dps classes will continually get their dps improved as they put more and more points into AAs. Their are only a few more AAs that will up dmg that i will be getting and none of them will provide huge gains, most the rest of our AAs are to improve our debuffs (which I think is great). D
