I am bringing up BG's cause I know that I will enter it with my guard. And I will maybe join a group without a healer. Thats the case
I will second what Netty said. Guards are well balanced atm, I personally would like more hate tools and survival tools than dps. I don't mind that other tanks dps more so long as I survive better and hold hate just as well if not slightly better.
Ok I cant DPS.. But why does it seem like that zerkers can hold aggro better and that their survivibility is better without heals even?
Badly played, I can survive for 30 Seconds against some X4 Raid bosses without a healer. Zerks deal better (far better) in heroics because of how their temps work. Guards are good at absorbing very high damaging blows. Zerks are good at mitigating many smaller hits.
You got raid gear. Other people dont have that like me. I am not saying that the gear decides 100% of your playstyle but it makes people really good and those that hasnt not equal.
Honestly my tank is just a group tank. But I have always rolled a tank ( end game ) in every game I Have ever played. To me a tank isn't about the amount of dps ( though it is a plus ) its about the ability to hold agro. With that being said I do feel that guardians are extremely good at holding single target agro, and even group encounter agro. However we really slack off when pulling more than just 1 mob or 1 group at a time. What I mean by this is a geared sk can pull the first half of Dreadcutter, while also maintaining threat on what 20-30 mobs the entire time. I have tried this on my guard ( though i know he isn't geared out of the teeth ) and it could be my play style, but I can hold agro on about 1/2 to 3/4's of the mobs but it is a ton of work and sometimes I can't even hold agro on that man due to them being separate encounters. Seems to me like we need more non - encounter specific abilities. Prolly won't happen but who knows
Because of AA I have 14 stoneskine and an 18 second long Invulnerability... if that can't make you last at least 20-25 seconds then you are really getting plastered. In Heroic set ups having Raid Gear will show more than in raid to some extent. I agree with Plavem though. A tank is Aggro First, DPS Second. Yes the fact that I AE-Autoattack 100% of the time and parse 100K roughly on Auto-Attacks alone speaks volumes to my gear-power, however what makes me hold hate is how I rotate my taunts and utilize my abilities. Everquest 2 is one of the few MMO's in my experience where actually knowing what you are doing is required and not a benefit.
Tbh to pull many mobs and have the dps dps on the pull is harder on a guardain. But tbh i pulled half the zone with my guard aswell. Its easier on aoe tanks yes but tbh it should be aswell. Even did hold 98% of the time. I did lose aggro on some mobs at some point but tbh it dident really matter. Both guards and berserks are pretty diffrent to play imo. Its good fun imo. I have tanked DC on my guard with a conj healing... defensiv tho and was not really any room pulls going on. Why? our healer went LD so i tanked the trash and the last 2 names with out a healer. Zerks works better on smaller hits and tanking more than one mob. Guards are stronger on harder hits and singel target really. And thus zerks work better on most heroics. BG:s well tbh i dont run them anymore. I have won the dps parse on my zerk on some bgs but i have never won the heal parse. Ever. neither in group or raid bg... you name it. There are infact alot of tank classes that are easier to keep up with out heals on some things. SK.s are pretty beastly as i rember them from BG:s yet i dont see any complains at all about them. Tbh there is a bg forum and this is a guardian thread so i would say if you have problems with BG stuff just post it there.
The last 2nd to last mob in sleepers tomb gives me the most problems. Im not sure why either. Maybe I am doing something wrong. I never stand in the green stuff, I can hold aggro on the adds, and the mem wipe doesn't really effect me to much, and I get almost all interrupts, but somehow it one shots me, is this a mechanic? The reason I bring it up, simple SK's and Zerkers that I have grouped with as a dps seem to have an easier time tanking this mob than I do.
Hmmm, not sure, sounds odd. I've always just pulled it to the corner, stand there with everyone stacked on the bosses rear, and burn it down, don't ever get one shot by that mob. I'm more likely to get one shot from the last boss, but that's only if an interupt is missed and a stoneskin is down. Also @ Netty, same here on the guard. Dreadcutter is pretty much a 2 pull zone on the guard. Its a work out for sure, but isn't that what makes it fun? I always warn people "remember, guardians aren't aoe tanks" -- and then I pull half the zone at once. heheh
2 pull? I 1 pull the whole thing on my Guardian... just drag Muglug and Blhorgot with me up to Goldstain only hard part is the stairwell because healers tend to lag behind and have LoS issues. Not to mention it is easy to over-pull in there. The pulse-damage the trash in DC has tends to overwhelm healers. Then again I do have to say... my guardian is far overgeared for Dreadcutter.
Alright then let me clarify (even though you are right) I am geared with CoE HM/Avatar/Plane of War gear including my Mythical Cloak. That helpful?
So? you still need to hold every mob you pull.... So the point still stands that guards can also hold aoe aggro fine. Its just abit harder on the pull... Its not like i am running around and pulling like that in Wurmbone zones or something on my zerk... You do it in the easier zones on every tank. class. Sure you could probly do it in wurmbone aswell but tbh same there guards will be able to do it aswell. Its just very hard on the healer as no healer can cure everything 1 group of mob normal cast on them with group cures.
I'm done with the class... haven't played in 2 weeks and have no desire to play the class again. It is a fine class for tanking PoW, although not required. It's pretty useless beyond that. When I return to the game, it will be either as a monk or pvp class depending on where I feel like focusing my game play. Hope the 3 or 4 of you left enjoy your fun and well balanced class.
Why is the class useless? Its all about the player behind it as it is with every singel class. I think we all agree on that guards need a dps boost in form off something fun to be more fun in heroics. There are still plenty that raid on guardians. so 3-4 is pretty lame to say imo. Well if the class dont fith you dont play it. a tank class that can tank any mob in game is no unbalanced as you claim imo.
I guess guards are not useless, but they are certainly not needed when other tanks have more than enough survivability to tank (which is probably just about anything in the game) and bring twice the dps. And it's a waste when good valuable players play mediocre classes. I don't understand why you try to argue with me when ultimately we agree. The last numbers we had access too on eq2players estimated guards as the second least played class in the game by a long shot. Brigand is/was the least played class by a small margin. Maybe I'm a pessimist, but I seriously doubt there has been an explosion in the guard population. I wonder how many of those "raiding" guards are pulling anything that matters.... how many could easily be replaced by brawlers or another tank that brings either more dps, or more dps boosting utility. The dps output is so pitiful it's hard to hold aggro from other tanks, and you need a **** group setup to do it (coercer, dirge, transfer). Guards do templar dps for what? An additional 2% survivability on my character sheet? That comes in real handy when you're plowing trash, running heroic content, and tanking 95% of the endgame content. All tank classes can tank any mob in the game just about; there's a whole lot more to balance than that. But to play along with your simplistic view of balance, it would suggest all tanks should be doing monk level dps since they can tank anything any other fighter can.
All tank classes cant tank every singel encounter in this game. There are ways around many of them yes like stacking up healer death saves and so on. Im not sure what kinda of problem you have when tanking on your guardian but tbh i dont. I havent raided on a guardian since dov but heroics? well i hold aggro from pow geared players with a troub illu set up. Just try and tank a hate shuffle mob on a crusader or a berserk and see how fun it is when you are missing tools like mantisleap/reinforcement. Yes brawlers might have a edge over guards but guards still have to tools to tank everything aswell. In top end guilds when they just burn stuff down yes guards might be lacking. For progression guilds i think guards would be the best main tank hands down. I will never agree with you tbh. Well they do need a dps boost and some fun stuff but calling a tank class worthless or pointless that can do so much as a guard can with ease is just plain stupid. Monks might be abit over the top as they have been in a long time but tbh a well played guard is pretty sick. 2% more surviveability is not really true either. Guards might not be as fun on burn stuff and heroics but isent that why they did ask for fun fixes? it is.
The problem with guards and heroics I don't think is so much they can't do it, its just they take a good healer to do it like other classes do it. I mean our death saves are kinda lame. I think it was what 18 stone skins that we have? But what good is a stone skin when every mob in the game multi attacks. Most stoneskins are for 1 to 8 ( i think could be wrong ). Well if you pull like 4 groups of mobs and they multi attack or flurry... there goes every stone skin you have. Just saying. I think the stone skins need to be a duration.
If there are "ways around many of them" you are saying they can tank. Your posts are always full of contradictions. Low dps. you just agreed with me again. play a guard then if they're so sick.
