Jarey@Nagafen wrote: If you wanted any sort of say or to have input considered, you really should have posted earlier, it's a bit late now. ALL we can hope for is that they realise this isn't enough and make more changes and soon, if other tanks are going to keep the defense they have. Also, pretty much everything you said has been said already and subsequently ignored! The flurry is the one that annoys me most, Assassins get 15% on their Mythical, I see no reason why such a low % is given through this AA, ANY class can get almost equal to this with ONE adornment.. Got your back - Useless. Flurry - All classes can get almost equal with 1 adornment! Shoulder the Burden - ALL fighters can use Trak shield, which is better! Block - A Single use block, most classes have something similar through AA or a CA ability in these end lines. ALL OF OUR END LINES are either useless or can easily be attained by all or most other classes in the same form/close to it/or better! Show me the adornment that will give a Guardian Reaver/Blocking Mastery/Perseverance or many of the other fighters end lines... ohh that's right, there is none! I have NO IDEA why GYB was kept as a fighter only AOE avoidance. STABILITY - As the target mob gets lower in health the Guardian gets more confident in Success. (SELF buff) Stability I - reduces incomming damage by 5% - If Target is below 80% HP Stability III - reduces incomming damage by 10%. - If target is below 60% HP Stability IV - reduces incomming damage by 15%. - If target is below 40% HP Stability V - reduces incomming damage by 20%. - If target is below 20% HP Suites the Name, ORIGINAL, NOT Overpowered, USEFULL in ALL play styles. But yeah, whatever, it's too late now Flurry - AT LEAST 10%, why even bother if it's this low, people will take it because it's the DPS line and it's 1 point, NO OTHER REASON! Reaver is a 5% Increase to spells, I'll get our SK to parse it but I'd assume around a 3% increase in TOTAL DPS. This flurry end line needs to be similar and 3% flurries to Auto attack WILL NOT be a equal increase in DPS. It would need to be 5-8% to be equal at least.
omg people go to test and play your toon see if it seems better or more dps and then make real replies and how it could be improved or what is good, don't cry because you are not getting the new super tank of the 2010 raid year be happy we are getting any attention at all and hope it goes through this time unlike the last fighter revamp
Hilty@Unrest wrote: I'm on test now, and if you think these changes will bring Guardian up to the same desirability levels as the other plate tanks you are VERY much mistaken! I don't want to be the fotm tank for 2010/2011, I just want to be f**king balanced! Auto atack only, below are my stats. 78 DPS gained from Auto attacks only, seem worth it to you?
I'm trying to pick out why i would use anythign in the aggression line.. seems kinda like it was thrown together with no actual thought of what it does.. provoke increaser.. increase threat persecond of this ability by like 34 "Cripple" is now "Shoulder the Burdon" and transfers 10% threat from the target group member to the guardian. since transfer on threat is capped at 50% this ability isn't worth spendign 20 points in the aggression line. "Enhance: Sever" is now "Enhance: Hatred" and increases the guardian's threat generation by 2% per rank. Umm wth i'm at 18% with just improved moderate and str line from warrior tree.. If anythign warrior tree needs to be looked at especially end ability of STR can we get that changed from expires on when target over 50% to just reducing its duration to 20 seconds. think of it as eq1 warrior beserk when they fell below a certain %.. do the same here. and have it last as a temp buff. "Enhance: Concussion" is now "Enhance: Shout" and increases the potency and reduces the resist chance of Shout. It iwll increase threat persecond on this ability by 144 per second. "Enhance: Reinforcement" in the original slot has been replaced with "Enhance: Call of Shielding" which increases the spell by 5% per rank. not to bad but can we get the defense changed to a uncontested avoidance say % parry or % riposte. "Enhance: Moderate" now increases the target's crit bonus by 1% rather than reducing hate gain by 2%. this is nice. but say we spend 5 points in it can you add so it also adds 5% crit bonus to improved moderate. "Hold the Line" and "Aggressive Defense" now trigger threat 100% of the time on a successful block. "Aggressive Nature" now increases the threat amounts on "Hold the Line" and "Aggressive Defense." can we get this changed to have a higher base as spending 5aa's for a 25% increase on an ability that has a base of 2079 threat doens't seem worth wild or even worth the points. with a 39% block chance, 300 swings in an encounter. with duration of 9 minutes. This is normal hard mode tox for our guild currently. This ability would only be 866 threat per second. Hell undeniable malice does more threat per second.. maybe add a damage proc to hold the line of say 800 damage also.. "Double Attack" is now "Flurry" and grants 3% Flurry chance rather than 9% double attack. The flurry % is to low to make it worth the increase to dps we are going to see from other classes.. make this 9% flurry and it'd atleast increase our dps by 400 not 78 like it is currently. Aggression line isn't really that impresive.
After checking out these changes, I have to say while a couple of them are nice, this really isnt going to make guardians worth giving up any other tank class. I love the guardian sphere change, i also like the change to moderate. Aggressions line really does kinda suck, not worth spending points for shoulder the burden, esp if you cap at 50% hate xfer. I agree that 3% flurry is kinda too low. Doesnt really add alot of dps. I would still like to see sentry watch changed since it can still get us killed. Last man standing should last 10 seconds instead of 7 hits. On hard super hard fight, those 7 hits last 2 seconds and doesnt really help if your trying to survive a certain AE. Warrior tree still needs some attention since str, wis end lines are pretty much useless. I understand that your trying to balance and not overpower the class. But with these current changes you are not gonna see guardians starting to be played again. Still need quite a few tweaks to make us even stand a chance at getting a raid spot.
I really think(pray) more will be done, Xelgad said he is dong small steps at a time. So ok I am just hoping he will do more saddle adjustment before next exp.
Soul_Dreamer wrote: Xelgad please think about this post a little bit, and consider the possibility that guardians need more work to be up to par, or other fighters need to be balanced. If more changes need to be made, please don't leave them hanging for another year+.
The 3% furry is a joke, as Soul_Dreamer posted he has 78 dps more from it. This change will be a dps nurf to any guardian who is not over 100 double attack already, since DA and Furry are the same thing (an chance for an extra attack when your primary hand weapon on a single target) just on independent triggers. So in essence this change will have guardians loose 6% chance to have an extra attack untill they gear up at 90 at witch point they will gain 3%. It should simply be 9% furry, this would be the same dps as the old 9% DA untill the guard hits 90 and gears up, at witch point they would gain roughly 234 dps from Soul_Dreamer's numbers. This would just be making a stat that is easy to cap now move over to a stat that you can not cap now. It would not add any more damage than with how the original was balanced when it was put in, since when the aa were put in their was no way you could cap DA.
The Current Form of Guardian Sphere isn't working. I havn't actaully got it to proc a stoneskin. Plant is pretty nice seems to have a low resist rate.
Brildean wrote: Plant has a 5m range,,,so the mobs pretty much need to be on top of you... 15m or 20m would have been better... These changes do so little for the raiding Guard, I'm very desapointed... Casual/heroic guardians will benefit from the hate...thats about it...
Brildean wrote: What are you smoken? 5m range is less then social aggro man. It need to be 10m min, 15m-20m max for it do it be even compared to the zerkers or crusaders.
maybe i dont wanna be a zerker or a crusader.. this will help get those mobs that get our of control on ae pulls thatsa bout it. and the only taunt we have that isn't up to 5m is provoke and that is up to 15m sent strike 5m taunting blows' 5m sneering assault 5m cry of the warrior 10m shout 15m taunting assault 5m recapture 15m I think it fits in nicely.
You know...I'm pissed atm... My guild broke up a week ago, and I want to apply to a high end raiding guild and i was waithing for these changes to do it... I was on Test looking at them and I can tell you, theres is nothing in there that will help a Guardian be desireable again for a high end guild...nothing!, rien!, nada!, niente!, niets!... lets hope more changes are on their way and fast...
Rhita@Najena wrote: Agree completly on Last man standing. Looked over the zerker counterpart and 30 seconds of 10% heal PER hit is way more powerful. In a multi-mob encounter they would be full health constantly. Fix guards and bring them equal with our counterparts. Right now there is little to no reason to be a guard.
Rahatmattata wrote: look at the zerks cad crusaders theirs are like 15m. Our taunts have a larger range then this does. Like I said proximity agro is larger then 5 meters. Our CA are 5 meters, if you think that is fine then ur selling a good ability out.
Well, I think the range on plant is fine. I don't remember if it's 5 meters or 15 meters, but I never thought "gee I wish plant had a further range." If he shortened the range, then yea, that was dumb. Ardors wrote: Anyone that still hasn't betrayed or re-rolled a fun class is either a glutton for punishment or just weird. The grass is greener on the other side.
Toranx@Crushbone wrote: But its not a CA, Its a taunt now, and should have a taunts range. 10m at the very least, but why not 15m? The other tanks have one. To comment on the current changes: There are several problems with the new changes on test. First off, Guardian Sphere is broken, cant test that so cant accurately comment. Aggression line, 10% more hate gain and like 30% potency to taunts, not that impressive, while i use my taunts all the time 30% isnt really going to do much of anything for them. Shoulder the Burden. Useful in the non ideal setup, but as a raid tank, worthless while you have a coercer/dirge. Not to mention most grps will not go into a zone without some utility, so a 50% chance to get a coercer/dirge over illy/troub. So we can get 20% hate gain through AAs alone, not to mention all the gear that procs hate gain. Cap is still 50%, should be changed to uncapped like potency and CB. Why cant ours be uncapped too like dps? Got Your Back, useless in heroic content, decent in raids. Gotta say, not a bad idea taking off a set of AEs for 1 person in each grp that has a fighter. Still not game breaking. 3% Flurry, what a joke.... plant, not bad but i swear if i see every mob that matters immune im gonna shoot up a wal-mart Iron Will, reduce slow by 36%, worthless BG stuff, **** except for countering Torpor, but still meh. Changes that still need to be made... Sentry Watch, still can kill you, either gotta time it carefully or die. Should be fixed. Unyielding Will, until canceled, why not, every other fighter has one. Sustain, small chance to kill you but still a chance, needs to be fixed. Mit buffs, Mit is far too easy while avoidance is harder now, make them avoidance buffs and call it even. Fix guardian myth buffs, cuz we got the short straw of all tanks. I am in no way shape or form asking for more dps. However i dont think we should have to DW to keep up with crusader S & B, and still fall short. that 25% bonus belongs on 2handers and should weaken the defense of the crusader. Thats really all I can think of right now. I want to be able to cast all my abilities when i want or need to, not when I think it wont kill me.
