General gameplay, transparency and rng madness!

Discussion in 'General Gameplay Discussion' started by Ryve, Feb 11, 2021.

  1. Ghostouls Active Member

  2. Smashey Active Member

    Why do people keep posting that? Its social media numbers. We know EQ2 has 21k active subbed accounts since the new company took over and released the numbers. We know very few people play the game.
    Siren and Flatline like this.
  3. Tupperbeast Active Member

    Because it might be his opinion and there are always people who are interested, and Darkpaw is not really new to be found under other names like all fake companies that have been doomed to fail.

    And the article is about general criticism and suggestions and ideas to design the game differently whether Daybreak accepts that is on a different paper.
  4. Ryve Ryver'Fish

    To get us back on track......

    There have been a few discussions regarding rng and balance and this is absolutely something that needs to be done carefully.

    I 100% agree that an element of rng or wild-card is fine in terms of mechanics/game play, but the reason there is so much anger and frustration is that we have moved to rng being the only way to earn anything.

    Usually there is a balance of, clearly defined paths to earn (see not free or handouts), whether that's unlocking achievements or earning enough currency to purchase items you want for your account. If along the way, the gods blessed you and you got that item in a random roll awesome, this is an added BONUS and should not be the only way to earn something.

    The excuse of previous exploits with armour has been addressed, and more viable solutions offered than what we currently have so this being the reasoning is just unacceptable.

    The current state of loot tables and rewards is causing so much harm to the community. In a bid to 'shake things up' or whatever the justification is, you've created the following:
    - Lack of interest in Heroic content, what's the point? The rewards vs effort is not to scale, so people just don't bother. They go through the motions of trying, but not out of enjoyment of the content but because it's the ONLY way to earn anything useful.
    - PQ's being the only way to gear for raids, or progression....requiring no skill, server lag and again praying to the rng gods
    - Removal of reforge to create balance ... just made all gear obsolete unless it has casting/reuse. You could save some time and not update the rest of the items because other than briefly meeting a resolve check, they will be ditched as quickly as possible. Or be reasonable, and bring reforge back and explore a more viable way to address stat inflation and need. Running 120 content but wearing level 96 adorns?! How is this balanced or scaled to current content? Tanks are struggling with casting/reuse for Bulwark..... it just doesn't make sense.
    - Gating Prestige points behind 20 weeks of active game play...... there is 0 incentive to run heroics, it is a genuine struggle to form a group and if you do it's pot-luck take what you can class wise and give it a go. Lots will seriously struggle to get this, unless of course you where lucky pre-fix....why people got to keep unlocked aa's when they where unlocked 'not as intended' is beyond me... how is that fair or balanced?!

    Finally returners .... you may as well install a revolving door right now. Established guilds and players have always opened the door for returners, took them in and guided along the way to help them find their feet. This is becoming increasingly difficult and RoS is going to effectively end returning/new players being able to access end game content.

    For a new or returning player they have to battle the following, whilst individually you could compensate for not having 1 or 2 from the below ..... add them all together and you are ultimately screwed:
    • Ethereal Jewellery: A significant jump to core stats and resolve to enter into heroic/rad content, with no way to earn the items now or even similar. End game raiders are STILL wearing all 3 Eth items (aka... they've killed everything new and there is NOTHING BETTER), plus the Pearl items from last expansion oh and the Horseman Hollow belt. So that's potentially 6-7 items from previous content as there is no better.
    • Ethereal spell upgrades: Sol Ro granted classes new abilities, Master & GM could be purchased for Ethereal currency, if you didn't play through the summer the only way to level these spells is research (4 months each?!) or to drop some serious ££
    • Completing old raids and achievements for Blue adorns - Just grant them for completing the RoS sig line, charge some RoS currency if you must but keep the focus on current content.
    • Levelling green adorns - RoS greens are a rare sight, so those new/returning would take the freebies in the crate and have to go back to BoL content to level them whilst they prayed/made sacrifices to the loot gods for a current tier adornment
    • Language component for RoS sig line - those who didn't play BoL, before they can complete the current quest line they need to go back and complete the previous tier signature line to learn Akhevan. This quest again is a must, especially for a returner/newbie as it is key to getting the Celestial weapon. (wahoo something guaranteed through quests and not rng!!)
    • KA/PoP raiders flawless buff - for those wanting to compete in current raids
    • Ascensions - It's a challenge to farm for pages in current RoS content. Adept pages should be dropping in solos, Masters in Heroics and Ancient/Celestial in raids. Take those journeyman's out of solos ... it's a waste... also take out the lesser versions aka Brittle Armour pages are dropping in RoS, this was upgraded to Brittle Amrour II 2 expansions ago!!
    • Spell upgrades - Where are the masters, ancients and celestials hiding in RoS?! Super low on drop-rates.
    • Red Adorns - Yes the crate gives a couple of sets, but lets be clear the Destruction set is key. RoS red's are a rarity, so a returner/newbie must go back to flawless an old raid zone or farm BoL heroics/solo's hoping for a drop.
    There are plenty more to add, if there's key ones I've missed please do add and I can amend!! :)

    Ryver'Fish The Diplomat
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  5. Drax Member

    As a recent returner (I last played in 2016) all this 100% applies to me. The frustration it brings is massive. I have really tried to get myself geared up to the point where my character might (just) be viable in heroics but the game of RNG Bingo has finally beaten me down and I have cancelled my sub. Your 'revolving door' analogy is perfect.

    Ryve, I really admire your drive & determination to try and get the Development Team to change direction. You are clearly made of sterner stuff than me :)! Personally, I have recognised that DBG/DPG are totally wedded to the RNG mechanic which is, therefore, very unlikely to change. Rather than trying to force myself to play a game that, fundamentally, isn't enjoyable I have taken the oft quoted advice that "if you don't like it then don't play it".

    Good luck & best wishes!
    Flatline likes this.
  6. Ryve Ryver'Fish

    It's such a shame you decided to leave especially over something that could be prevented.

    This is my last ditch attempt to make some positive changes, and i'll be joining you from the other side, cancelling subs and no more expansions here. For the sake of my friends and what not, I want to give it one last shot and changing things first!
    Tunes, Amybelle and Flatline like this.
  7. Drona Well-Known Member

    Are this tone deaf?

    No one said, they should get BiS for no "effort" but people don't want to it to cost 1000s of real world money as well and rightly so.

    If anything Ergrott is evidence of the current problem with the game! The ONLY way to get it is pay 1000s of real world money or wait 2 or 3 years to get the currency by playing the game normally. You think this fine ?

    The game always had RNG but never to this extent with pretty much everything being locked behind it....
    Amybelle, Ryve and Flatline like this.
  8. Benito Ancient EQ2 Player: Lavastorm Server 2004.

    So true.

    Ever since vanilla EQ2 (Qeynos/Freeport), you had to camp named for a drop (RNG). Do people not remember camping hours upon hours for specific items in Thundering Steppes in 2005?

    The 'currency for loot' phenomenon is much more recent where Summer Ethereal coins became a big deal in like 2016.

    To be clear, I'm not trying to encourage asceticism. But folks need to remember the roots of this game and other MMORPGs: camping mobs and dealing with RNG.

    If the devs want to maintain rarity for Celestial/BiS/raid loot (accessible by "casual players"), they can alleviate the effect of disappointment by making the items tradable. People will enjoy the "lottery effect" as making 1-2 Krono on a rare item can quickly assuage people's sense of "wasting time." There is actually a demand for tradability, as, based on anecdotal evidence, players continue to transfer back and forth to IoR. Instead of transfers, why not let the broader population deal in Krono? Daybreak will make much more revenue from Krono sales directly on their site.
  9. Flatline Well-Known Member

    Couldnt agree more @Drona.

    This was - the medallions - the perfect play on "well here you go have some medallions that was otherwise only available via real life money injection (dont dare to use the 3 letters!!)" which appeased the masses, but due to the reality of the math was nothing but a gesture.
  10. Gillymann Abusive Relationships Aren't Healthy. J S.

    The over-reliance on rng can be chalked up to two dominant factors, both of which serve the comany, and not player enjoyment: (1) A time sink to distract customers from a lack of content, and (2) encouragement to skip the grind by spending money in the shop.

    Barring a giant infusion of staff resources, this is not likely to change. It is what it is. Be honest with yourselves and make a decision to stay or go without any irrational expectations.
    Drona, Bhayar and Tanto like this.
  11. Bentenn Active Member

    Ethereal jewelry is not required. End game raiders are wearing some simply because the extra 2k pot. That’s not make and break especially if you get the ethereal ring off RNG lol..

    I had to go back and do the language component because I hadn’t. Did that on 8 toons, some of which hadn’t completed bol sigline. You only need to get seven quests in btw. Not that hard.

    Horseman belt on broker...most are actually cheap..

    Ascensions...most guilds have depots that are most likely loaded with these to craft. I just changed to elementalist last night and via guild depot almost all my elementalist spells are GM.

    The blue adorns.. pretty sure you get the not upgraded version in the box, maybe not, but can pick one up for simply running SE heroic. Not hard. Sure not current content, but I see lots completing it anyway.

    The only thing you complained about as a new player that makes absolute sense is the spells. There should be a way to upgrade them other than research and ethereal coins. Everything else was just not wanting to take the time to just go do it. I’ve helped at least 6 people come back to this expansion and got flawless bugs, runes, upgraded ascensions. Even ran the old Celestial doctrine quest for upgrades. New players have to put in a little effort to get most things that are obtainable. Let’s face it, not every guild completed flawless POW and SE. why should everyone have the same rune....go back and do heroic and get that rune, blue triangle rune out of box and forget where third came from. Have to look at my toon again. All that write up to hit one valid point,,,

    Spells need to be able to be upgraded other than ethereal currency....that’s what you should’ve stated.
  12. Ryve Ryver'Fish

    As my post stated.... in isolation each of the points are not intense, but add them together and it's alot of time, energy and resource spent in old content to access current content effectively.

    I'm not saying you can't go back and so some elements (those still active anyway) I'm saying that for someone new, returning or changing it's quite a hefty list and amount of time to access current content you've paid for. That's my point.....

    And for the record, none of my posts are a complaint, they are simply an attempt to shift some balance back and make current content more accessible. I've been nothing but constructive and I'd urge you to do the same.
    Romulus likes this.
  13. Flatline Well-Known Member

    You essentially just validated all the points in the post INCLUDING the RNG `.. if you get the celestial ring of RNG` ...
    Yes its all possible - except ethereals which is 3x2k potency compared to RAID T3 gear and other stats not `2k` - compared to heroic gear its A LOT more ..
  14. Tanto Done, finished, gone.

    This is the post which everyone should really be digesting.
    Flatline likes this.
  15. Cisteros Active Member

    I returned a month before RoS dropped having left sometime after Rum Cellar but before ToT. When I left I like to think I had a good handle on game mechanics and spent a lot of time trying to understand them and have a general idea of where my metrics should be. I took things slow coming back. Did the sig line from every expansion, did not even know about the Panda quests until I was working on PoP. Concentrated on just leveling my old main for adventure, though I did work a few support tradeskill alts through those lines. Writing this it dawns on me that the reason I found the tradeskill content more enjoyable was that the mechanics had not fundamentally changed.

    I actually am luckier than most, my old progression guild did not kick me out so I had a few friendly faces and ears to bend and one person in particular went out of their way to fill holes on adornments, class ability upgrades and mount tack. But, and I know I was just as guilty of this during the years before I left...when you are playing things as they release and learn along with the entire population, you just kind of forget the things you take for granted are mysteries to someone new or returning after an extended absence. Just from this thread I learned there is a SE spell for my class I don't have. I have no idea what other must haves are out there that I am unaware of, and as such, cannot even ask the right questions of the people available to me

    Then new mechanics. Everything revolves first around resolve. So I chased it, got to the BoL heroic threshold 2 days before BoL dropped. Have done a fair amount of work on new expansion. My resolve is fine for Heroics now at 4890. But apparently I have so much more work to do with half of what seems the be the baseline for fervor (not resolve as originally posted) and 30k-70k deficit in potency. I am not sure if my HP are high enough. I have no idea where my DPS should be. The numbers are massively inflated, with some having 3 commas, but the killing speed seems to be in the same ballpark as when I left for solo content then. But I go and do PQs and my DPS is lower than raiding AoM 7 years ago unless something has a fluke hit on a random base zone mob respawn. How does someone who missed the evolution figure it out?

    A google search turned up a lot of references to EQ2 Flames, but no active url. It was a cesspool, but did have people who dissected data and gave good info on where metrics should be. Has a new resource been created that served the same function?

    That rambled, but I was trying to give my own experience to tie in to the topic of general game play and the obstacles one has to overcome returning
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  16. Bentenn Active Member

    Trust me.. no one hates the RNG factor more than me.. especially when it came to shadow harvesting and getting crystals, etc.
    If they are raiding at t4 top end, then the ethereals go back on after people have the resolve, sure. Not many people is at that point.
    The post was to say how hard it is for a player to catch back up, and its really, really not. If they want to jump into a guild that's raiding then sure, they are trying to catch up quickly.
    First by doing the old stuff and getting a feel again for what their particular class does, it will help in the long run.
    Second they can then get the stuff the need doing the old stuff to "catch up". Using the stuff from the box makes the content prior to ROS way easy then.
  17. Drona Well-Known Member

    I completely agree with both your points and I personally think point 2 is the biggest reason. If you keep eye on the krono market on your server and IoR, you know exactly why they prefer RNG these days.
  18. Cisteros Active Member

    I don't think the difficulty of going back to do old content was ever the point being raised. The point was that it is something that seems mandatory if a new/returning player wants to do anything beyond solo content, which isn't the best way to retain that new/returning person

    I should reasonably expect that completing the latest solo tier of content should have me prepared to do heroic content. From all I have seen in game, that simply is not the case. 210 fervor and 238k potency is well below what I see groups asking for. Someone who is new or has missed multiple expansions may not even know about everything they are lacking. If they are not in a guild or looking to jump into raiding, who do they find to help them run this now trivial older content once they discover that they need something from it?
  19. Bentenn Active Member

    They could hand out 2 reduced blue fervor runes I guess. That is the only 2 items not given out for free...I guess they could half them,
    but as far as everything else. all SOLO stuff can get you to the stats needed for heroics, minus the 2 blue fervor..farming solos would get you 220 in every slot, except the 225 bracers from sig line and BIS 255 (infusable) weapon from sig line and the 230 cloak from sig line, and the (2) 245 resolve charms. Food/drink and correct spec also helps boost pot, as I"m sure you know..

    Everything is available including the red rune you get from sig line which was equivalent from diaku heroic last expansion... lots of free stuff and ability to be ready for heroics...

    Just because you see groups ask for it, does not mean its necessary. I just saw someone ask for 5200 resolve to run heroics.. over kill much...

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