what?? your opinions or ideas do not hold any merit in the subject of fury power issues because you have not done the same encounters or played your toon at the same level, as many others have that have the same issue. obviously a pure casual playstyle where you play as a purely healing toon without pushing your class to the limits does not have the same issues as many others who do play their toon this way (& from talking to many over the years, yours is in the minority). as arielle posted on the warden boards, " Also - the way druids are 'built': you sip power while healing, but if you start nuking you use power like a mofo." this is more extreme when using infusion because of our lack of self power management like a warden has with their myth & our dependency on chanters, clickys & power procing gear. some encounters are to the extreme where we (now get this)...even DON'T use infusion & BARELY nuke (except for t1 nukes just to take advantage of the illy power on dmg buff procs from their myth). we can cast 3 heals/cures & our power is GONE, that's right...GONE, just 3 spells, no nukes, full to COMPLETELY dry on power. use our overclocked manastone, within 2 more spells, it's GONE again. my illy is EXTREMELY good at keeping me up with power, but sometimes it's absolutely ridiculous. there are several fights EVERY xp that are like this, but once again...only those that are posting on these boards have seen those encounters. i used to not even have a chanter in my group years ago in another guild because of the shortage of chanters & we still raided high end & killed avatars, i wore ALL of my power proc gear all of the time. it was manageable but extremely painful. i could barely dps because of power issues, had to watch when i had infusion on, & some fights even full on heal without infusion, were still extremely extremely hard on power. i know some casual guilds have issues with keeping chanters/bards on the roster & having enough to go around for the entire raid. that's why there have been posts asking for chanter/bard buffs to be rw & asking that encounters not be so dependent on 1 of each per group. not every guild has that benefit. i know everybody plays their toon like the furys that have posted here backing me up on the power issues, but not everyone plays your playstyle either to "never have an issue". why force 1 into playing a certain way just because they don't have enough chanters to go around? i personally got so bored out of my mind when i was playing in the guild where i had no chanter, that i switched to a templar for my main because that's pretty much what i felt like i was playing & they didn't seem to have near the power issues that a fury does even when you're playing them both to full on heal on the same encounters. & call me what you will, i know i play my class well. my track record in ww top 5 guilds for the last 7 years is evidence of this. i don't think i'm the best, the 1 that i consider the best & my mentor stopped playing years ago. i'll never consider myself the best no matter what people say, i just know that i'm good & understand my class & how to push it to the extremes to get the job done & enjoy myself doing it, otherwise i wouldn't still be playing after all this time. i don't expect people to bow down to me as you say, just to listen to my ideas as i listened to yours, until they were sniped back with power issue? where's this coming from? no fury i've ever talked to has had a power issue. they obviously haven't been watching the posts that many furies, including me, have been making on flames & these, yes THESE official boards. check the archives, they're there.
" i don't expect people to bow down to me as you say, just to listen to my ideas as i listened to yours, until they were sniped back with power issue? where's this coming from? no fury i've ever talked to has had a power issue"-Aricajade Can you please start quoting the reponses your scewing since your propably confusing readers with your lack of comprehension. If your responding to multiple quotes and players...since you have been a more vocal forum user... you should recall how to use this. "they obviously haven't been watching the posts that many furies, including me, have been making on flames & these, yes THESE official boards. check the archives, they're there."-Aricajade Yes I seen those posts. Some of the furies did complain they don't have enough power to play both dps'r and healer. I didn't post on their power complaining subject because even then I didn't have a power isssue so didnt need to complain aswell. I know alot who may not post on forums who know how to play their toon. People complain and want more and more for their class all the time. Just because we dont post on those threads doesnt mean those posters opinions count and others dont. . edith ps i dont read flames. its one big forum made for those who can't behave on soe forums or in a few cases were banned from official forums. Lovely sections like rate a ******, your guild sucks hall of shame. I wont waste my time there
wow you failed hardcore, obviously you dont understand the quote reply system either. I guess you get 2 stars for trolling actually i give up on you and ell, I am saying apples and your read oranges. Maybe instead of *** for tat round and round you can just comment on issues. I feel like i somehow got redirected to eqflames by accident
no I understand, I just don't really care. p.s. the previous post were the responses by the "healing" furies, who say they are were the ones that weren't being listened to & told THEY were the ones doing it wrong because they weren't playing "our" way. as you can see...just as judgemental & close-minded as we are claimed to be.
This is a game of numbers. People see nice dragons and fairies, which are neato, but to excel at actually playing the game, its purely statistical analysis, information processing, and communication. The maximization of any class in this game is to do as much dps as possible while keeping the force alive. How this translates to a Fury specifically is that you're a dps class that cures and heals as a speed bump. The evidence for this is overwhelming as most encounters in DoV along with its additional content releases most of the encounters could experience no deaths with a HPS output of no more than 4k, while a knowledgeable fury with the correct hardware could push 400k dps on the encounter. With that being said, and I can't beleive this is even being discussed as it's been nailed in the coffin for years, but Infusion and AE avoid are the ABSOLUTE must haves for any fury whatsoever. Serenity can be debated given content and gear usesage, but is still used since the other 2 options, especially rebirth can be detrimental to scripting (soloing is pretty much whatever, but soloing id rather have serenity b/c you prolly don't have the gear anyways.) As far as power issues are concerned, they are real. We have incredibly high power cost heals, AFAIK the highest, and when this is copounded with detriments from endgame encounters their blanket debuffs typically list "consumes 280% power" or similar effects. This would cause a single cast of autumns kiss, for my group specifically (8 targets), to consume 2,964 power in a single cast. These kinds of things are unacceptable and where these demands originate. Many of these encounters also reflect health damage when power is consumed, so far as enchanter will kill themselves while power feeding making the issue even worse. My template for playing the Fury has been emulated by high end raiders since EoF, when we were given real DPS abilities and in most cases still holds true. This information was not compiled by myself alone and has been discovered by outside sources independantly. It is simply the natural state of excellence for this class, which given ever changing parameters in an online game are subject to challenge. At this time the challenge has failed.
This entire debate is just a fragment of a much larger problem, an over-riding opinion of many players, and posters is thus: This is not the case, and it hasn't been for a *long* time especially with the Fury class which has abilities designed around them dealing damage. (Just have a look at the mythical buff, only one aspect of it actually helps Fury's heal - the rest is about helping their group/raid perform better whist thy themselves do more damage.) EVERY class is a DPS class; some scripts even in herioc zones are simply not possible without everyone DPSing including the "healer furys" out there. Trying to deny that DPS and Damage spells are as much part of what makes a fury, a fury is like trying to deny the fact Fighters have swords as well as shields. A fury needs to be both a healer and use their nukes if only at the absolute minimum to trigger the mythical buff on the MT shaman and in doing so they have absolutely appalling power usage - and the better the fury the worse their power usage (as they are able to cast more spells in a shorter time, thus contributing more to the raid). I've raided with a fury back in KoS/EoF and it was terrible then; its worse now due to raid effects even tho the options to regen power are a lot better. I play a Pally as my main now but at least I have an option to stop attacking - if a fury runs out of power (and they often do) their group dies ; even if they are being careful it is still impossible to cast a group cure without any power. I have said for a long time but a fury should have a self buff able to proc power when casting spells; that or allow animal form the ability to cast beneficial spells.
again it boils down to role management. Likewise defining/changing a class around specific encounters. Are we healers that do good at dps, or mages that can heal? Can you see mages that can toss occasional heals being told to toss their heals at every opportunity (ie spamming heals at the MT or OT even when they are at full health) because they can? ie maximize healage. EEKS. If you are in a group with another healer or two, then because our hots kick in only after the wards and reactive, there is plenty of leaway for dpsing, likewise more fault tolerance for power issues, unless the tank staying alive is dependent of us spamming single heals proactively rather than reactively. In a solo healer group, that luxury is lessened. One can't remove the need for cross healage and cures from the equation either if you want a honest debate. Those take away from dps for sure. If you have found a way for them not to, please tell me! I love to dps. *grin* So it boils down to what is ones primary role? Be it in a raid, or a group. Anything that compromises that primary role is not good. When it doesn't compromise that role, by all means go for it! If you want the primary roll to be DPS then a priest class is not your best choice. As for problems with specific encounters, thats exactly what they are, specific encounters. Like i mentioned elsewhere a raid wide encounter buff that triggers power regen on cures or heals (or even more specific class casts) would solve that, no need to change the class (thats of course if SOE didn't intended for those power issues for healers/fries - in which case the argument for more regen is null and void right from the get go........) If triggered on specifics, then SOE still maintains the power drainage for other classes if thats what they intended (and more than likely did!).
I love the idea of Furies procing power back off of nukes. I'd trade my Wrath's Blessing for this in a heartbeat (shhhhh don't tell Erianna)
I believe there a different styles of playing a Fury. I specifically change AAs to practice different specs and different styles of play. No person should feel denigrated for playing their specific style of game play. Sometimes, I think EQ II gets stuck too much into specific "templates" as the preferred style of play because it is considered the "best" format. It also depends at what level the Fury is and this and, in turn, this can influence their game play. Also, what type of group the player is in can influence the game play style? Are they in regular group and the primary healer, mage group, raiding, or duoing? Having stated that though, if someone asks a specific view or feedback that is different. Also, one can have a debate without the other party feeling put down in some manner.
Alternately, having Feast give back power would be helpful. I do like my proc heals in retrospect. This was suggested by another on our last forums. I believe most priests do not have as many power issues that we have and once Wardens, our counterparts reach epics they no longer have this issue due to buffs. I think asking for this is not unfair of us. Having a power buff of some type would not make us "uber" per say but help us do our role better and, perhaps, make us more easily join groups / raids.
No but there are plenty of fights, which apparently you haven't done, where a warlock has to spam their power regen because the illusionist cannot keep the group's power up. This is outlined above by Widem, where power usage is tripled or more on every cast on many endgame mobs, as well as draining 1000% more health from you than power. This bears no relation to this discussion. The people asking for these changes are solo healing furies. Some solo healing furies may not have the issues, but they aren't the ones doing the encounters. This isn't just one endgame encounter, it's a large number of hardmode fights. Fights where simply standing there with no infusion on and only healing and curing, which can be something you do nearly constantly on a lot of these fights, will drain you dry in no time. Remember how manaflow kills your illy? No you're stuck relying on an outside power feed. Oh no, some chanter outside the group got cursed/feared/killed. You're now out of power and unable to do your job, grats. That is a pointless idea, like I said before, because it takes the drain out of the equation, it might as well not be there. A power regen you have to actively use is much more interesting in my opinion, especially since if it was triggered on hostile spell casts, you'd have to do your full job to stay up on power. This will be my last response on this subject. I can't believe how many of you are adamant on ignoring or pretending there isn't an issue here. If you aren't having those issues, that's fine. Go away, and smile to yourself that you're more awesome than us endgame guys with all our power issues. Let us have our discussion about raid desireablility and power fixes that we've been wanting since original release. This isn't even a discussion by many of you at this point, it's simply, hurry up and respond to and pick apart anything El or Arica says. Find something better to do. Nothing being asked for here is going to hurt you in any way, unless having to use another ability actually bothers you. In final closing... Wardens, myth buff lets them do their job and dps as a bonus. Almost always grouped with a coercer. Inqs, Passive buff where someone else gives them power constantly, and almost always grouped with a coercer, plus a group cure + heal with no power cost to help on terribly draining fights. Mystic, Myth clicky is full power/health for entire group. Almost always grouped with a coercer. Defiler, cannibalize, almost always grouped with a coercer. Templar, probably the only other healer with as little power utility. Almost always grouped with a coercer. Now, this may change if you are illy heavy/coercer light, but normally, unless you're running two mage groups, or have an OT group with an illy, we are the only solo healing priest, and the only one grouped with an illy 100% of the time. If you are in a fight that splits up your raid, or a fight that can randomly curse people, putting them out of the fight for however long, or any number of things, you can quickly find yourself in peril of being out of power all the time, EVEN WITHOUT INFUSION OR NUKES. There are at least half a dozen encounters from HM DoV/PoW that I can think of off the top of my head that have these issues. Compounding that is the expectation in any realistic high end guild that any fury you recruit will dps as well as their other jobs, and you will see the reasons for our frustrations. Why deal with the headaches when you could simply get another healer that can do the same dps, the same healing, and have no power issues. That is the underlying reason for people wanting these power fixes for years, and having people who have no inkling of those feelings can be quite frustrating at times. Yes, I could settle for doing less than my class's maximum, but then I wouldn't be worth a raid slot. It's as simple as that. And for mid tier raiders, you have the golden age of power consumption, with mindless turn and burn mobs with nearly no special effects. You are geared enough and grouped with chanters often enough to experience neither the pain that is endgame raiding, nor the equally frustrating situation of grouping casually where you don't have a chanter, or soloing. Yes I can do my job without a chanter doing heroic stuff, but it's so trivialized by gear and effects it's not even an accomplishment. As a matter of fact, outside of endgame raiding, I have fewer problems with self power management of anyone I can recall doing PuGs with. Soloing is the same thing, gear trivializes content to the point of me room pulling heroic mobs, AoE heirophants grasp with animal form running, and bam full power. In percentage based, endgame encounters though, there are simply not enough viable tools to be able to do the job without wanting to pull your hair out. I can point/counterpoint with you guys all day, but without that experience, yes, it will stay apples and oranges. This isn't even me looking down on you in any way, it's simply me trying to explain the unexplainable. I can power level groups in SS contested, pulling 4-5 encounters at a time, tanking them all, running out of power about every 10 minutes, and manage myself just perfectly with no chanter. I can stand in place in quite a few endgame fights, cast nothing but heals and cures, and be out of power in less than 5 minutes. I'm done here, take what you will from this post. Being cordial is not a strong suit of mine, and this post has about stretched me to my limit. All I want, and other people asking for power changes want, is due consideration of the REAL problems here, and for people of OUR OWN CLASS to quit getting in the way of changes that would benefit everyone that plays a fury, be it solo players needing help root/nuking mobs for long times, or heroic groupers without a chanter, or raiders with poor raid setups, or raiders with great raid setups on fights with screwed up mechanics.
I have always had power issues playing my fury and I have been playing one since launch, engaged in all types of play this game has to offer. I've never been an active forum poster because of the time it takes but I wanted to post about this because in every expac I've always advocated for some power regen utility through beta and test feedbacks. I am a really big fan of changing Feast to regen power instead of health, it would also be nice for it to be made a group buff or straight up power tap debuff instead of it being reliant on the mob losing 20% health. Animal Form and Rebirth could both use an upgrade to be more useful for those who like to use them, I just cast Animal Form on the necro and I personally haven't used Rebirth since EoF because it has always meant another death. As El stated above we are really the only priest without any actual power utility that can be used reliably in all types of play. Sure Animal Form does regen some power but beyond solo play and maybe some heroic we are giving up way too much losing all of our benifical spells.
OK so I finally got fed up and decided to post in this thread, the first thing I want to say is to the people flaming the eq2flames posters at least go and read the fury and warden boards over there, they are full of helpful and informative posts from the best furies in the world yes some sections live up the name of the forum however those 2 don't. Now I was a warden until DoV when I finally betrayed to fury, before actually betraying I made a point to read up about the class and find out as much as I could about whilst doing this reading 2 names that are prominent in this thread were 2 of the most useful posters on both the official boards and flames, they were Elhonna and AricaJade, they are both amazingly helpful and successful furies. Now since I betrayed I see exactly what the power issues are with fury, I have raided with some very good guilds and killed some of the hardest encounters in the game and guess what I 100% agree with Arica and Elhonna there are fights where you cancel infusion, use all every power item you can get your hands on and still be out of power most of the fight. So my next questions are for Ladymist, you say that you don't have power issues, I just want to know a few things 1. Whats the hardest mob you've killed in this game (raid)? 2. What is your actual raid spec cause you stated earlier that the spec on eq2u profile was for soloing? 3. What power items do you use to keep your power up (overclocked manastones/pots/power roots/etc)? This thread has some nice idea's on how to deal with the fury power issues however its become derailed because some people on this thread are just ripping apart others idea's and playstyle of the fury class so lets agree to disagree and actually get the power issue fixed.
I did not expect to read that much but as Boli pointed out ALL classes are expected to dps and do their job especially by high end encounters with dps checks upwards of 5 million+ per raid most recent Vallon Death comes to mind I know my raid failed with 3.2-4 million dps a fact I am not proud of and to this day am looking to up my own dps. Power issues are real for all classes in HM content but some feel it more than others and furies are no exception 80% of the time I see our mage group die its because; 1: the Fury is dead. 2: the Fury has no power. The other 20% is because someone in said mage group did something stupid. Prime power contenders are your healers and tanks. Healers have high power costs and Tanks are repeatedly drained by on-hit effects by many bosses now-n-days if either run out of power you can bet the mob will be loose or the group will be dead. Oddly enough reading these posts makes me want to continue raiding and learning odd considering recent events are driving me to quit lol. P.S. I skipped the last... 3ish posts since Boli am reading them now.
Ok dear all, i've read the whole thread about and got disappointed in all you furys I have a fury too and before the newest gu and expacc he was my main for mostly grouping and occasional purs as a solo healer or in a pair with other healer. Btw elhonna is not she, it's he i made the same mistake one time thanking both him and arica for help and advices. Now days i play coercer and let me tell you guys in all honesty i don't have issues with powerfeeding our mage group fury (she is doing great by herself in majority of encounters) very rare she is asking for power i constantly have issues with wizards though with their manaburn on top of the power sensitive fights. What i am disappointed in is just how you all go after each other with insults. We shouldn't be doing it. I have to admit that playing fury i had issues with power in some fights or not having them at all... is it due to wonderful powermanagement in a raid or a group or due to something else... i cary with me power potions alot . anyway what i would like us to do is to discuss what to specc and how to approach different encounters at our best. EDIT: come to think of it our fury may not have power issues because i constantly feed power to a wizard of ours who is in the same group with a fury
Cont... and how to approach different encounters to help each other... sry! Time was up for me to post
We need our own power regen option, all other priests but furies get one that does not prevent them from doing job of Healing, Animal Form would be fantastic if it would proc off our ranged weapon and/or our nukes if they wish to keep us from healing while we regen power. We're not meant for up close on the mob (not meant not that there aren't PLENTY of confused melee specced furies ) fighting. I was examining our new Prestige line and we're given 1 buff to our new AE that gives 7% health boost to the fury... WHY? Why do we need more health? I'm headin towards 62k hp at present i'm good with that number i keep the green bar full just fine. That blue bar ... that's another issue. NOTE: I know we have enchanters for power regen for a reason HOWEVER I point out again ALL other healers have some form of power regen, templar's might be the exception but I don't see them running through power like a fury who opens up full on a mob.
I would rage if the ability only procced on a ranged weapon as opposed to spells as well. Not that I foresee them tossing us that bone any time soon. We've only been griping about power for 8 years, why fix it now? Animal Form is like a lot of other abilities in this game for many classes, completely outdated in its application for the normal player. It's not confused when your gear is good enough to spec for max MA and high AoE auto. I've posted parses showing auto attack being my top dps output, especially on single target stuff, plus on fights where you don't have to joust it's nice to have free damage at no cost. I love health because HM mobs hit hard, and often bypass t-shell completely. Specced for Protective Instinct, and I can spike my hp up to over 100k solo healing the mage group. For the record, Stormbarrier procs 7% health per rank, to 21% maxed, it's a huge jump in health, but only really useful if you're a dedicated user of PI. A 30k+ ward on everyone in group is sick. What's even sicker is fighting mobs that hit hard enough to go through that, group aoe wards from procs, and Spirit of Druidism at one time. Most damage I've ever warded at one time was around 50k on each person in group. It's like having a shaman with you . Highest hit I've ever seen for PI was a little over 36k, so a group ward for a little over 216k. Like I said above, if you aren't fighting crap that hits through shell it isn't that bad, but there's enough endgame mobs that have me parsing 15-20k hps that to me it's worth speccing that way as opposed to getting both conversions from the prestige tree.
