Focused Casting

Discussion in 'Mages' started by Penta, Sep 5, 2015.

  1. Koko Well-Known Member

    Not really a fair comparison as gear is kind of a really big deal. A simple exercise would be to determine how powerful a single temp is relative to EncDPS output, then compare that value to the increase from an item.

    e.g. Which is better, a warlock with spellbind or a warlock with XYZ crit bonus/potency item?

    If you want to argue that Fiery Blast is worse than Focus Casting, a strong argument would be to compare the FB damage multiplier to FC rather than personal evidence. Granted they are two completely different spells with different strengths (see my earlier post), but it would be a start.
    and a Ford 4x4 is a sportscar because I saw it get off the line at a stoplight faster than a Lexus that one time.
    Tharrakor likes this.
  2. Lare Active Member

    It's call swings and roundabouts. Warlocks for years where the long lost red headed step child of a forgotten gnome. Then they changed FC to what it is today and it allowed them to compete.Wizards ruled the roost for years TOP DPS class before Beastlords.

    ADD mud flation and a few expansions later to now where we are at the end of an expansion being fully geared to the teeth.
    Where u DPS most zone with your eyes's closed with fast burned and ignore strats.

    Yeah right!
  3. Karsa Active Member

    C'mon now Koko there is no need to throw 'Rocks'.I've misplaced my janitor's hat....p
  4. Mogrim Well-Known Member

    I'll take your challenge, Penta.You seem be struggling to understand the mechanics of the game. Overall, I think this is probably why you're as angry as you are. Let me take you step by step through this.

    1) Eci's only hits 5 targets. Apocalypse only hits 5 targets as well. Apocalypse does have the versatility of becoming a red w/ our myth clicky on, but it cannot be a blue. So we only realize a 5-target hit potential if the encounter is linked.

    2) You claim Blast of Devastation can be insta-cast for both classes. I'm not sure what makes you believe this. It cannot be insta-cast for Warlocks. We're playing the same game, right?

    3) Rift can hit up to 12 targets. Yes. It also does less than half the damage of Fusion. Less than half. In addition, Fusion was created to be naturally 10% harder to resist. It was also created to have it's stun/knockback effect last .5 seconds longer (2 seconds versus 1.5) That still sort of matters on AOE fights, as a majority of resists that someone experiences are from unbuffed AOE mobs.

    4) Essentially, your Blast of Dev is always worth casting due to how quickly it can cast. Similar for us with Rift. Rift versus Fusion and Fusion is way stronger on small encounters and single target. Heck - if we've got a 6 mob fight, Rift will still do less damage, because Rift only does approximately 44.5% of the damage that Fusion does. I'll explain how I figure that out. 6*.445 = 2.67 - that means that against 6 targets, Fusion will still outd amage Rift by more than 10%, provided Rift (which has a better chance to be resisted) is able to land a 100% hit rate against the 6 targets.

    5) Apocalypse has a long recast and a low reset chance (9%). Nothing special or exciting to talk about here. Not even sure why you brought it up.

    Both classes get a massive temp. If a few adjustment tweaks are made to FB, they'll be roughly equal in power, too. Just not on fights that last less than 1 minute. (Which really shouldn't ever be what you use for your "evidence" that there is a kink in class balance)

    Warlocks are AoE restricted, significantly so, at certain times. If the fight is a blue-specific AOE fight, then a lot of our tools are forced into a less efficient single-target role (Apocalypse, Dark Siphoning, Absolution... and don't even think about using Dark Nebula at that point because it is terrible on blue-fights). Beyond that, Firestorm and Cataclysm are pretty similar. Our Skull Focii ability is identical to what you guys get. Your insta-casts are both blues (Blast of Dev and Ec'i) - one of our insta-casts are one blue, one is a green/toggled red.

    Essentially again though - Warlocks and other classes are all pretty balanced, but I've spoken with several Wizards and I do agree the solution is a few tweaks to YOUR temp. Not to ours.

    My Communion comment was intentionally exaggeration, btw.
    Foretold and Selaphor like this.
  5. Foretold Well-Known Member

    Schooled ^^^
  6. Gillymann Abusive Relationships Aren't Healthy. J S.

    Yay! Yet another cry to nerf someone else so I can be better. Yay!!!!
  7. Tharrakor Well-Known Member

    Good warlocks are rare, very rare in my experience and they definitely do not need a nerf
    As I read through this thread it became obvious that this is a wizard being jealous that FC is better then FB, I do not disagree with this but calling nerf on another class is the wrong approach. Also I believe it is against the forum rules if I remember correctly.

    Instead focus on what can be done about your class and suggest solutions. It will be ignored most certainly but it's allowed and it won't provoke others :)

    I would very much like if FB was handled like RO/VC. One button for charging it and one for firing it. It would be a very nice improvement to FB.
  8. Foretold Well-Known Member

    Yeah, the worst part of FB is when the mob dies in the middle of the FB chain, before FB goes off... that's the reason why my wizard stays mothballed while I roll with the warlock. That and I suck at wizarding.
  9. Tharrakor Well-Known Member

    Yes that is very frustrating. Also being able to charge on trash and use on nameds will give the wizard some of their ST potential back for burst fights
  10. Belton Member

    1. Only you have this for ANY player WW. So invalid friend. Sorry.
    2. he's also not exaggerating. So FC can be reset by Apoc right? Apoc can be reset by Eth wand. You tell me how IF you get that combo to reset for you on longer fights how that's even REMOTELY balanced for any other DPS class. Please. Stop.

    3. Wrong. Im not going to get into our guilds parses but you know you are straight ************ here.

  11. DoomDrake Well-Known Member

    Everything about probability right? Apoc reset chance is 9% right? And what is a chance that Apoc reset FC? .. definitely not 50 not even 30 .. so at very best case scenario you looking at 3% chance to reset FC from Eth wand right? ... Correct me if I wrong but FC have to be coordinated with TW/UT in order to give maximum yield? and everything that is outside of TW/UT duration is just sustained DPS which aren't that great. Again correct me if I wrong main problem with wizard that their temps hard to sync with TW/UT?
  12. Belton Member

    1. WHICH they should! All said classes you listed are consider T1 DPS. This isn't WarlockQuest.
    2. Most of these said players you listed don't have competitive warlocks in their guild. funnily enough when Melio went warlock he completely destroyed Aniathor and posted some of the highest posted parses of that time-period.

    3. Finally you say something worth a damn. Although having Our dumfires reset(Not even Communion just Aqueous Swarm and Roaring Flames) would level out the playing field by alot.

    But please by all means continue=)
  13. Yards Well-Known Member

    I love how people think the wand reset is op for Apoc. Apoc is on a low reuse as is and if you get a reset you are not just going to cast Apoc as soon as its reset you have to wait for a given number of increments to lower cast time. Wizards can parse well if they know how to play class and suck if they don't. Warlocks can parse well if they know how to play the class and suck if they don't. Same can be said for almost every T1 so if you are a T1 and are getting blown out by a warlock it's your fault for sucking go learn your class and stop trying to blame it on another class.
  14. Belton Member

    If that was directed at me i am talking about his claim that he doesn't double people on longer fights. which he does. lol and the only reason is because Eth wand resets Apoc Apoc resets FC. It's not hard to see logic friends. Wizards are a whole different story lol. I won't get started on that.
  15. Belton Member

    WARLOCK FAN BOY I REPEAT WE HAVE A WARLOCK FAN BOY. Please don't respond if you can't use logical thought like mogrim does. you guys are incredible. If you truly think that warlocks aren't that OP.
  16. DoomDrake Well-Known Member

    Not to blame anyone (I am to far from coming back on top of the food chain after 10 years retirement) but rather curiosity what is driving me... Please enlight me - as I understand in modern day EQ2 everything is dancing around temp buffs .. and so to speak without Illy and/or Bard nor warlock neither wizard can put decent DPS compare to predators. Now as I understood one of the bigger contributers to the warlock spike DPS is FC which bump by CB by 75% off the base and add 100% to the chance assuming that we are talking about 10 second spike in every 2.5 minute (in best case scenario when Illy/Bard coordinate with warlock TW/UT). You do not need to be expert in math to see that this affect only burst fights (say between 1 minute to 2.5 minutes) and with every new 2.5 minute increment warlock DPS will go down (because of sustained DPS).
    I guess what I am trying to say in any fights longer than 5-7.5 minutes warlock won't be able compete with sustained DPS classes and current problem just absence of new content that do require endurance fights ? (like 30+min)
  17. Yards Well-Known Member

    I was just using the same logical thought as you...
  18. Belton Member

    They took all the endurance fights out lol. There were fights back when the xpac first dropped that did take that long because no gear. but now all the fights don't really take longer than 5-10 minutes (if you are in a top 10 guild from what I've seen at-least)

    Please tell me how a 75% CB pot spike every two and a half minutes (NOT counting if you happen to get a reset) makes sense? when any other mage don't have such an ability to make them go beast-mode like that? MOST fights are burst based now anyway(Add sets burn phases ect)... You sorcs. Cry and whine for our pets not to proc things anymore(VC procs ect) and we got defensive. now you guys are under scrutiny and you do the same ****! But when back then Any GOOD sorc could beat out any summoner. Now any half decent Warlock can beat the best summoners in game.
  19. Mogrim Well-Known Member

    1) I'm not the only person that deals with playing home-run-sensitive spike rotations. Assassins going all out for an FFU can have their parse ruined by a mob going damage immune at the wrong time, tank losing aggro, etc.
    2) FC can be reset by Apoc, yes. at a 9% chance. In a sub 3 minute fight, odds are I won't see a reset. In a fight 6 minutes or less, odds are that I won't see 2 resets, and so on. It isn't that significant. However, if I get extremely extremely lucky, it can be lulz, but the opposite is just as likely to happen as well.
    3) You aren't going to get into our parses because you either don't show up or AFK for half the content. The non-Warlocks who are actually here, Akaeri, Kaaria, Matt, Home, Kaizar, actually do shine and put up respectable numbers. You saying they don't just proves you haven't been on.

    1) When I say those classes will beat warlocks, I mean "they'll have no valid excuse at all if they ever lose to a warlock, ever". Simply removing focused casting from the game would absolutely remove Warlocks from being a valid class option at all.
    2) Your statement doesn't really follow. What I'm saying is, fully buffed, these players of other classes have been able to put down similarly impressive parses. That means the gap isn't what you think it is. The gap isn't between classes, its between players.
  20. Yards Well-Known Member

    In order to use fc to its fullest capability it has to be cast with tw, full increments, apoc, and pb. Since tw is on a 1 min timer even though fc may be ready to cast at 2:30 second mark you are going to be waiting for the tw on 3 min mark which isn't too big of a deal. I'm not entirely sure what summoners you know that are good if any but the conjy in my guild does fairly well and is in top 3 on most every fight occasionally wins fights ( and this is all done without buffs like ev etc ). On the names where we pull all the trash and name at the same time and the encounter only lasts 30 seconds he will lose by a decent margin but those fights hardly matter at all. Fc is good it may give warlock an edge but it is by no means OP or deserving of a whole troll thread as this one clearly is.