Dungeon Maker Changes Coming Dec. 16

If you can buy a toon 85 / aa's masters and great gear /vs any and all kinds power leveling its gotta be about money. Stop nerfing stuff. Yer miffin people off. No matter how you level up its easy to sort the good players from the not so good. On top of the exp nerf now the rewards for DM tokens will be sold in market. Its about the money.

I've gone through DM dungeons several times; at first I went through friends' dungeons to see what they were like, then later I went through a few once I saw some of the rewards I could get with the marks. I never cared about the exp; in fact, it surprised me the first time when I leveled with a character who went through several of them.

But I DO want the marks. I don't care about the exp. Please, keep the marks as a reward. Otherwise I doubt I will ever bother going through one again, and I will bet the system will end up gathering dust, as so many have already said. That would be sad.

And I agree that those who just purchased it should be reimbursed their SC. It seems very unfair that they weren't warned when they bought it.

Here, I'll help you out SoE. Here's the steps to take for force everyone to enjoy your new content.

1. No experience for toons level 96-100 outside of new content.
2. Remove the availability of Chonomaging and Mentoring for toons 96-100.
3. No experience for kills, only for quest completion.
4. After 1-3 are ready, roll all characters back to expansion launch date.

That should take care of people trying to "cheat" the system and bypass new content.

This isn't about tokens and at this stage, there's no point in having people run the dungeons for tokens. As I and others have tried to explain, you can't just reset tokens and call it a day. What you suggest involves going into each and every character and removing that currency. That's many thousands of characters that would have to be cleared. If they could ever do that with any currency, they probably would have, but they won't because the potential for bad things to happen is there. This is an MMO, after all. It's like a house where you install a new light switch in one room and it flushes the toilet upstairs.

They would not have to do that individually, that's ridiculous. They'd run a script or just clear that column in the database.

It's still more complicated than just obsoleting the currency and giving all the items away for nothing.

The lazy way? You don't even know how many things they have on their plate right now. If anything, it's the smart way, because as I keep saying, things can go wrong, even when you do everything right.

Don't use DM to level quick, it makes you bypass the game... then you can't experience the content. To play a true MMO you need to group with others to live the experience. BUT you can pay us 35 dollars and we will allow you to bypass content and not group with others. Seems legit.

P.S. How about a name purge so people who currently play can get the names that haven't been logged into for 6 years.

You're getting things mixed up there. Advancing to 85 gets you closer to where most of the grouping (and all of the raiding) is actually happening. That's bypassing old content from years ago, which is no longer relevant. The DM change is all about those folks above that level still trying to take a fast track to 100. This is bypassing content they just spent the last year developing. Do you see the difference?

Nope, I do not. The wife and I have a small cafe. We truly enjoy making great food and beverages and love it when the customer takes the time to enjoy the food we create. That said, we also love it when some customers return, spend money and gobble down the food as quickly as they like. In the end, a business is about keeping the customers coming back and turning a profit. The way in which you enjoy our product is not as important as the fact that you enjoy our product and keep returning for it. Dip the french fries in the homemade soup or your milkshake? Have at it, enjoy it your way, you paid for it.

Those people that rushed to level 100? You think they did it so they could drop their subscription and quit the game because they finished? Last I heard they were trying to get to the content they enjoy more so they could continue playing their way.

To be fair though, at your last bit, that has literally happened 3 months into the expac THREE times in a row now. Hit cap/gear up as much as possibly can, drop the sub right there and stop till the next one. It's why people have been complaining about lack of groups so much, even on the far-more-populated AB lol.

If SOE listens and does not kill the token rewards, then no, the feature will not be completely dead. Yes, it will suddenly become significantly less popular, as the "cool kids" (i.e. those that were using it exclusively for powerleveling) will essentially quit using it. But, if there is still some reward to running a DM (even if that reward does not include any xp), then some folks will still be happy to run some DMs for a bit of fun on occasion still -- which to me would be what DM was really originally good for, just a bit of a diversion that gave you a few kicks and a bit of fluff as a reward.

But, if the Marks are still removed in addition to the XP, then yes, that will indeed completely kill it. As has been said before, no one but the most devoted decoraters would waste their time on something that they get no reward for doing.

I'm glad to see it's not being completely removed and will still be able to be used by decorator's and RP'ers...and that's awesome. Although I did pay real money for this feature, it doesn't bother me that they are now going to give it away free, as I have had the opportunity to enjoy it at least, and now others who didn't have the opportunity to enjoy it will have that opportunity as well.

I can thoroughly understand the removal of xp from these dungeons, but don't see why dungeon marks should also be removed. These marks are one way to encourage others to run these dungeons, and by removing these rewards, you now take away any incentive to run the dungeons. I think that was poorly thought out and should be reinstated. Hate to see these things taken away, simply because they have decided to go the route of making this feature free to play.

Not much more to say than this.

Here is a novel idea: make your content engaging, fun, or at least useful. Then, people would WANT to play through it.

SOE this is the wrong approach. Casual players are leaving the game in droves. (insert long rational analysis here)

Wake up. Somebody needs a pink slip.

TLR version Bypassing the Game system and Power Leveling is perfectly fine as long as you are willing to pay $55.00 to do so. Also why would we give you items for free with Dungeon marks when we could make you pay for them with station cash (real money).

THIS FOLKS IS THE BOTTOM LINE REGARDLESS OF WHAT WE ARE TOLD OR MADE TO BELIEVE

Heck. I wouldn't mind if they kept the marks in, as long as there was a cap to the number that one could earn from completing a given DM dungeons and as long as the things available for purchase were limited to decorations and appearance gear.

Hi, long time player (got my 11th year reward and all that) and even longer time customer. Been a Sony player since Kunark. was released for EQPC. I understand the desire to do what you want to do and I understand the whole "screw it" attitude that you guys are having with the frustrated feedback you're getting from players. That said and please take this in the best way possible; who are you to tell me, a person who has sunk thousands of dollars into SOE games over the 14 years I've been paying, how I should play the game I've paid for? If I want to take the short cut way and skip content that I've done on multiple characters throughout the long life of this game why are you taking that option away from me? It's like a car manufacturer getting upset because someone added a cigarette lighter in their vehicle where one didn't exist before.

If this is about SOE losing money on Heroic character sales (which I really think is the main culprit here) then make it pay-for-access or access to subscribers only. You'll get money and people can still play how they want. I don't see the purpose of removing a feature from a game that doesn't break the balance of it.

I'm from what i think is the smallest server for this game (Storms). Even during peak hours, there not much people around and half of them are in raiding guilds. It's hard to find groups outside of our guild and most PUG are not able to find key players to play with (Tanks mostly).

On Storms, there are very few people who are not playing in end game; the new players often leave the game before reaching level 100 or even 95. The only way to bring more people or keep the current number of player is PL to endgame so they have a chance to actually play the game.

I dont know for other server, but Storms is slowly dying and this move just speed things up!

It seems, Deveryn, that you are stating that this whole mess was caused by the testers, and beta players, If they hadn't complained about using monster characters, the dungeons would have worked as intended.


DeverynWell-Known Member

Almee said: ↑

“SOE's biggest problem is that it doesn't listen to its testers and beta players. The problems with the DM feature should have been caught before it was offered for sale to the public. To my way of thinking, I was sold a defective product you all don't want to fix. You need to find a way to make it right to the player base that just got the short end of the stick.”

The problem is they listened too much. The original DM product was fine. Again, there was nothing to be nerfed until they allowed players to use their actual characters. That's what got us to this point.

I find that difficult to believe as a former professional beta tester, program developer, and programmer. One of the first things you test a program for is exploits. Give a few college guys the program, and a small keg of beer, and you'll have your exploits identified in record time.

It was the responsibility of SOE staff to ensure any changes, made to the core program, were free of exploits before the changes were released and people paid real money to buy the features advertised. I feel like I was duped by SOE.

I can tell, from the negative response posts, that many other players feel the same way. By the time I bought DM, SOE was fully aware of the problems but was still selling the product to us suckers.

They knew, when they sold DM, on Cyber Monday, that they were going to axe the feature. That's a pretty callus way to treat your supporters and customers.

Even if they try to make it right, now, we are all going to worry about the decision-making policies at EQ2 headquarters. Either DM was damaged goods, from launch, but no staff saw a need to fix it during its 2+ year run, or SOE knowingly sold a product it was going to axe. It comes down to bad business any way you slice it.

Folks, long time player here, also from shortly after Kunark was released. I ended up leaving EQ1 about a year after WOW was launched because I was tired of enduring the nerf ax, of which I have already commented on earlier on this thread, and came back about two hears later to play eq2, and have been active ever since. I am a mature player, over 50.
In the game, I craft, decorate, explore dungeons, quest and roleplay, and am on AB. I have three active accounts and many alts. I have one character maxed to 96, not even 100 yet, and I enjoy occasionally working an alt for a bit in the player dungeons as a change of pace from the regular grind. I have been exploring the new content on my main account and woundering if I sould bother buying it for my other two paid accounts. I have bought a lot from the station cash store, prestage housing, housing items and several insta 85s, as I knew I would never level up some of my rp alts from scratch and didn't want them to take forever. Over time im sure all this has added up to quite a bit.

I bought Dungeon maker stuff because was planning to create a dungeon with active 'monsters' that would be fun for other folks to run though, when I got the time to do so. Now to put it frankly, after thinking about it, if all experience is removed and the tokens, im not going to even be bothered with it.
I have also enjoyed greatly occasionally taking a few of my alts though others dungeons for a different place to 'grind' for experience, though the max I ever stayed doing such for a couple of hours. I do not visit these every day, nor make it a habbet to power level as that would get too boring.

Now..as im running though the Phantom sea, yes , I have heard that there were folks that levels up to 100 in like a day or two. Good for them. I was not jelous. Why would I be? They being level 100 before me does not effect me. Folks being disturbed about it? How many? and are these veteran player? I doubt it.
The 100 level folks complaining about the content not being challenging? I find it challenging, just not very interesting.
If folks level up to 100 and complain because the mobs aren't splatting them, that's their problem caused by only them, and does not effect the rest of us...or at least not most of us.
I am NOT feeling cheated because others leveled up in two days. I intend to go though the new zone at my own pace, and reserve running in the DMs for my alts later...or rather that had been my intention. (take a look devs, ive got over twenty alts on different accounts).

Bypass adventuring with no risk? My alts die a lot more in the player dungeons than in the other enviroments.
The quick leveling ? Folks can level by grinding elsewhere as quick if not quicker. Exploit? Now you are insulting us.
Easy button to push? That's just as insulting.
Don't want to fix it and would rather concentrate on creating new content/adventures for everyone, not just the smaller number of players that create, use and visit these player made dungeons? Errr..... that is just plain bad press right there, makes folks sound lazy and I know you guys aren't. Seriously , Sony lay off too many devs in their cost cutting and streamlining measures? I hope not.

Heres the fix folks, and I could live with it, and I imagine most others could too.
Don't take a sledge hammer to the works, too many of us like our dungeons and want to have at least some of us still visit them. Use a surgeons knife and heal the patient instead of killing it.
Reduce the experience gained by a half , or even three fourths, leaving something there still as a reward for venturing though it. along with dungeon marks as well, but reduce the amount earned there as well.
You could also put a cap on things...whether its how many times a person can run though the dungeon in a given time, or even no experience after level 85. That I think might be a compromise we all could live with.