Dumb fire Pets / non Scout pets still broken...?

Discussion in 'Mages' started by Deezknives, May 24, 2016.

  1. Yards Well-Known Member

    I raid in a high end guild, I see all the parses on longer duration fights and I know what they are capable of. A summoner who is bad can parse the same as a top end T1 player and a summoner who is good can double a top end T1 player. Even the summoners I raid with tell me how broken their dumbfires are so yes they are completely broken, it's obvious. Don't get me wrong I like their crazy op dps, it helps us clear raids a lot faster but at the same time I don't want to read people trying to deny they are broken. If you are a summoner and you are not dominating every parse you are doing it wrong.
    Beee and Jrel like this.
  2. Safirah Member

    Do you honestly believe that summoners are okay right now? If so, you must play with some very poor summoners to come up with information such as this."Swarm pets are finally scaling like other ablilities..." what? When they're receiving fervor, they're not scaling like other abilities. Look at patch notes lately? Check out what happened to RO, mimic, FB and so on, (p.s I do think mimic needed a nerf, just like summoners)those are all not benefiting from fervor any longer. I just don't understand how people can like this buff summoners got when the necromancer was already arguably the top dps in ToT: Conjurors needed a buff to share fervor with abilities like EB, summoners didn't need all their swarms hitting with fervor.
  3. strange New Member

    Don't care canceled sub good luck
  4. Easiette Member

    I know exactly which "necros" you raid with and i'm convinced everyone in your guild knows their thing, so what you are saying is that on non trivial fights the necro without hammer is doubling your parse and the one "with" hammer is then obviously quadrupling your parse?

    Yes before our pets got "fixed" (scale, benefit from fervor/buffs etc) + crazy high pot gear entered this game i was up in the top 3 all the time, now usually #1 if the encounter allows it.

    The way DBG handles itemization its bound to create a lot of exponential unbalance (i seriously cant see how they will ever fix that issue)

    This list you mention is afaik still benefiting from fervor, just not double up..
    I am a necro so ill be the last saying i don't like where summoners are right now. Other classes have had their OP status a lot longer.
    I just think saying something is completely broken is a horrible way to try and correct things and not constructive at all, our dumbfires "should" benefit from fervor etc just like any class has his arsenal affected by it, the fact it turns out do do more damage then intended might require some adjustments but not by halving summoners dps, cos that's whats being inclined here.
    If its unbalanced then suggest how to fix it, talk rational and constructive else u get no love from me

    Besides that, i am not insinuating i am the top of my class but i am certainly not bad at it either and in my guild our assassin dominated single encounters and our swashy was king of AE by a decent margin in ToT, and then I've only heard the stories about the beastlords and rangers potential from other guilds.

    As a summoner my opinion is that our pet + dumbfires should make up about half our damage and when i break it down that's just about what they are doing now, bar the occasional fluff parse.
    Reducing damage from a dps class should not be taken lightly since it can lead to psychological instability and uncontrollable urges to quit a game all together :p
    so maybe its the other dps classes that should be looked at instead. :rolleyes:
    sycla likes this.
  5. sycla Active Member

    I remember the time when poison alone was doing more than what summoners did and the next xpac when lock were doing twice summoner damage..and the start of tot when bl's were untouchable on the parse..
    just wait a few months and we will have a new class dominating the parses..i hope its the wizard class as they are long overdue
  6. futurama New Member

    I think Yards and Easiette are saying the same thing, an awesome summoner will dominate all parse where as a terrible summoner such as Easiette will still top most parses.
    Entropy likes this.
  7. Therein Active Member

    Before "fixing" the pets all of the T1 were competing a decently close race. With potency inflation, scouts started falling behind a bit. GU100 hit and casters in general started pulling ahead of scouts with chanters outrageously ahead of everyone. They fixed mimic and "fixed" summoner pets, which not only replaced enchanters with summoners on the parse, it catapulted them even further ahead.

    Itemization issues aside, they have tinkered with mechanics that have completely broken all sense of balance in the game. Stagnation of these issues at such an amplified value like this is making a lot of dps not even want to log in. Why even bother to play a dps when you feel like you can't compete anyway?
    -Soteria- and Neiloch like this.
  8. DoomDrake Well-Known Member

    yeah, yeah, yeah .. that's exactly what Mogrim was talking about warlock focused casting .
  9. Anaranj Member

    Exactly. For years I've seen on the forums the main argument for the little damage that did the summoners was that we were a "T1,5" dps class and, therefore, our damage should be far less than the damage done by other DPS classes. At that time the chanters had their usefulness and their role was not merely a dps class. But what were the summoners? It seems that we should be always settle below the parses. Now things have changed. Now we're up in the parser. Probably in a few months another class will take over. What is wrong with that?

    Excuse my bad English :(
  10. DoomDrake Well-Known Member

    Could you remind me where you been when SAME discussion was going on about warlock focused casting?
  11. Therein Active Member

    Summoners have always competed ever since TSO, so don't feed people a line of BS.
  12. Neiloch Well-Known Member

    Heroic tanking pet, rezzes, no flanking or stealth requirement while doing T1+ DPS PLEEEEAAASSSE, thank you
    -Soteria- likes this.
  13. Therein Active Member

    I want to be able to hit one dumbfire pet ability and top the parse too!
  14. Anunnaki Active Member

    So much salt in this thread. There will always be a class that is the #1 dps, and everyone cries. Yeah, summoners are in a good place right now, why is that a bad thing? We were at the bottom of the T1 barrel for 2 maybe 3 straight xpacs. Now we are toward the top, but still not far and away #1 like warlocks were in AoM. ALL abilities should benefit from every stat (such as fervor), if they need additional adjustment, then base values can be adjusted, but arguing that they shouldnt benefit from fervor is asinine.

    This isnt even mentioning the stats that *still* dont benefit primary nor dumbfire pets. Along with the fact that dumbfires can and still often do die due to aggro.
  15. Ashandra Well-Known Member

    Fervor has to share with dumb fires or the class would have fallen further behind as future expacs come out swarms are a class defining ability and have been main dps for few years now , the amount of damage can be raised or lowerd now that the coding has been done . The hammer is a game breaking item needs to be toned down. Good Blords with a hammer are just plain scary.
  16. Easiette Member

    I do not visit this forum to come and complain about other classes's dps, and definitely not with non constructive arguments like: pls fix, they are broken
    Thanks for making my point..

    Competed with each other perhaps...

    As is such a favorite expression used on these forums, if your sorcerers and predators weren't blowing summoners away on the parse "then they were doing it wrong" (bah how elitist that sounds, /spits)

    Any real tank can do a much better job, any zone where my pet actually can tank can be tanked by any class if played right, or a merc for that matter
    My rez sucks unless i spend a lot of AA into it, which thank god is not being asked of me.

    I chose my class because i am lazy and don't want to use stealth attacks or dance around mobs. Been there done that in eq1.

    Please read your own signature and ask yourself what you are doing here.
  17. Neiloch Well-Known Member

    Tanking is pass/fail much like healing, people are dead or they aren't. As such, a necro and tank pet can solo heroic zones, a "pass.". "Doing it better" is of little consolation to anyone. Getting a 10 when all you need is a 1 has literally no benefit. Its like extra credit that doesn't help your final score, so its not really 'extra credit', just wasted work.

    Obviously since the necro provides the tanking, high DPS and healing for that matter you aren't going to find a class/merc combo that can come close in effectiveness. I've heard of other classes barely managing to solo zones, but not nearly as effectively.

    A group of 6 got their ethereal daily done about an hour ago by the necro soloing the zone named and the rest of the group at the ent. I know this because I was in the group and it at least matched the speed of a proper group since the need for organizing and coordinating multiple people was not needed. Any one with basic knowledge can attest to the efficiency of not having to coordinate multiple players while soloing/botting multiplayer content so any claim of 'grp needs to git gud' would come from ignorance.

    Theres at least one current, high end raid fight where its immensely useful because of power requirements. Simply being able to spec out for one of the better rezzes in the game is kind of a big deal.

    And to expect zero-point-zero drawbacks to this when other classes DO have to deal with it is completely unreasonable and flies in the face of anything resembling class balance. If you think flanking and stealth are purely 'playstyles' you are out of your depth here.

    Reduce the base effectiveness of summoned pets and swarm pets to compensate for the additional stat sharing.

    This was said multiple times in multiple places, even before the current state of having more stats shared was implemented, FYI. Summoners demanding fervor share, others saying if it did it would boost them significantly and a nerf would be needed to compensate. Fervor shared and no nerf is enacted, and here we are.
    If you aren't going to read the forums you might not want to act as if you have.

    The players acknowledging and defending summoner power based on give and take, ebb and flow of class balance are at least aware of the balance issues even if they are biased towards them. Acting as if everything is perfectly fine and there is no 'problem' is either delusional or disingenuous.
    Entropy likes this.
  18. sycla Active Member

    People seem to be missing the days when they could turn on auto attack ..go afk..come back when mob was dead and still top the parse.
    what does tank pet and necro rez have anything to do with summoner dps...
    If you really think moving behind the mob is difficult i dont know what to say.
    Everyone agrees that the base damage of temp/swarms needs to be adjusted but not to such a extant that we cant compete with other t1 classes.
  19. Therein Active Member

    Considering summoners were already topping the parse before they changed the dumbfire pets, it was not a needed change at all. Now it's entirely BROKEN, not "in a good place"
  20. Anunnaki Active Member

    Summoners were only topping parses if they were the only t1s, or your other t1s were slacking big time. This is an issue that was beaten to death even before they FIXED the class. This wasnt a buff, it was a fix to the class. If it truly isnt balanced, they will come along and bring them down eventually. It is NOT broken AT ALL. Summoners have been truly broken for multiple xpacs and now they at least get stat sharing on the important things, just like EVERY OTHER CLASS.