Dual-Wield vs 1 hand sword & Shield ... Preference?

eqaddix

i see "...but you block!" several times per fight. even without that, i notice the huge jump in AC just in damage taken. Yes i have parsed it too.

and your 1-hander must really suck if you're doing much less damage than with a 2-hander. I do about 90% damage with my Bloodstain Hammer or my new The Moonlight Mace as i do with my Shiny Brass Halberd.

you can't use a [FaarNerfed!]ty 1-hand weapon and shield, then say 1-handers + shields suck. And if you have a nice shield and you never see a blocked hit, you must be bugged or doing something horribly wrong.

If you are duoing your probably better off fighting mobs that are either low con or solo, and using DW or 2H because of course it's going to take longer when you're the only one doing damage. That doesn't change the fact that you take a lot less damage when you use a shield. I should mention that you need to be as diligent with your shield as you are with your weapons... it should be white or better con and tower. Killing the mob is up to the rest of the group, keeping it pissed off at you and pointed away from them is up to you. Sure we can do good damage as berserkers, but a good MT considers that secondary. When i'm tanking orange and red ++ that shield saves so much damage I dont need to parse to see it, it's the extra lift that gets me up to thier level defensively. Last night, at 34 I took a group with a single lev 30 healer and no one else over 31 through RE down into level 39 boars & gobs with no problems, no way that would have been possible without a shield.

well said Diaboliq, and that's exactly the same thing i did, possible with a shield and skilled players.

All of my gear at level 44 is orange and yellow including my shield and 1hs, please don't make this a gear thing. I rarely duo, most of the time it's full groups or trio, like I said I don't see any messages that indicate I block a fight. Can anyone besides the uber Toxaur confirm a block message? Like I said the damage I give up with a shield equipped isn't worth the healing difference which isn't even noticable. But that is just my experience. Here is a link to my gear, not sure if anything will show up since I don't pay for that extra crap, http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/player.vm?characterId=117959106.

Is there any way to parse damage taken? Khalysta's doesn't have a total damage taken column. This way I can parse an entire day with a shield and an entire day without.

Oh and btw how do I do something wrong in getting a block? All you do is equip the stupid thing, wow that takes a genious. There is no block skill is there?

I'm not trying to make it a gear thing, I pointed it out because you lose a lot of effectiveness stepping down to a kite shield and/or as it ages into blue and green con, enough that it becomes less noticible fast. Your stuff doesn't show up, but no matter, if you say its an orange con tower shield I believe you. All you have to do to get it to 'work' is have it facing your enemy, just like defensive skills such as parry and evade it doesn't work against attackers beside or behind you. Yes, it should say 'but you block' or something very close to that in the hit line. You should be able to parse damage taken, http://www.combatstats.com/ is a pretty good log parser, i'm not sure how it compares to Khalysta's. If you find it's not helping you then possibly your fighting mobs that arent doing much physical damage or maybe the upper 40's mobs are so buffed now shields don't matter for anyone in that level range... worst case you're bugged in some way but I would tend to think not.

there ARE orange con shields and 1-handers that suck you know... con isn't everything. it's gotta have good stats too. Bloodstain hammer and moonlight mace are some of the best 1-handers for their level. my best friend parsed it and said i was consistently doing about 90% of the damage with a 1-hander, as i did with an SBH, which is the best 2-hander for that level.

and i still have some of the highest DPS in my groups, using a 1-hander and shield. So i don't know what your problem is. It may or may not be a gear thing, but i am curious...

what 1-hander and what shield do you use and what level are you again? and what 2-hander?


Message Edited by Toxaur on 02-07-2005 11:23 AM

I will parse this week. I am level 44, and up until a few days ago I was using Treebane, now I have Ebon Executioner's Axe. My shield is a Clay Guardian Shield I believe, I could get better but if I don't notice a difference what's the point on wasting my coin on somethingI won't use. My 1hs I forgot name when i get home I will post it, but the delay is like 1.5 and the damage is 40-100+ somewhere around that. I don't use it so don't know stats. I will try and track down some high end 1h weapons and shields though. I have the haste ring and FBSS also. Thanks for everyone's input I guess I just need to test things out again for myself.

what's the point of parsing then?

it's like comparing apples to oranges since it sounds like your 2h is far better quality.

If you used a 1-hander and shield of compareable quality, you'd notice a big difference. That's like me using an SBH for a 2-hander, then comparing it to a 1-hander and shield that were good.... 5 levels ago.

ya gotta upgrade your equipment constantly when you level up or you notice a big difference in effectiveness.

How are these for 1 hand and shield?



Message Edited by eqaddixx on 02-08-2005 07:20 PM

Level 30. I've played around with 1h/shield, duel wield, and 2h.

At this time I've found duel wield to be the best. I thought for sure the huge increase in AC from the shield would be largely noticed, but I don't really see it affecting my tanking much, if any vs. duel wield. It seems, the more times I can hit the enemy, the less likely they hit me. I have no stats or data to back it up, but it's just how feels and can be seen by how much mana per fight the cleric is using. We play together all the time so its very noticeable to him when he's working more per fight because of me switching to a 1h/shield.

2h so far just seems way too slow and again the fact is I'm not hitting the mobs as quickly, so it seems they are hitting me more.

Dual wield is the worst possible combination for MT. Your extra hits preventing damage makes no sense, that would mean with 3 assassins in my group mobs would be overwhelmed by hits and never swing at me. All you do with DW is increase the riposte damage you take, lose your blocking ability, and do an extra bit of damage that isnt your responsiblity anyway. Use DW when you can attack from behind... ie theres not a best configuration, there are best configurations for given situations. 2H is a better head on choice when your damage is more important than your defense, but your still being hit. Choosing not to use a shield when your MT in a group with sufficient damage dealers is just negligent, you might as well take off a couple pieces of armor too. An extra 5-10 dps in a group doing a combined 250dps is unnoticeable.

That looks like a good pair to me, eq. Tried the parser yet?

Personally at 33 I use my shield on anything that is yellow ^^ and higher and the SBH on everything else including some yellow ^^'s, it all depends on the situation. I have been told by my healers that they can tell a big difference between using and not using a shield.

I almost never DW as I seem to take way more dmg. There is a post from Moorgard on this to take a look at too if interested http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=chars&message.id=5584#M5584

Yah I am close to using the hammer so I will parse at 45.

i'm sure you will notice a jump in DPS with a decent 1h weapon like the hammer when you are able to use it. when you are able to use it, i would say that combo is good, yes.

OK..... did some parsing and research today...


23 Zerker....

2- hander Enemy Swings: 76 Hits:47 Parrys:14 Misses:15
Dual 83 56 16 11


OK... well within the bounds of chance..... pretty darn consistant.....now...

Sword and Pristine Ash
Tower Shield Enemy swings:71 Hits:47 Parrys:10 Blocks:2 Misses 12 couldn't believe this... 2 Blocks?? ran next 5 fights....
66 39 12 2 13 doh.... 2 blocks again???? HUH???

Notice the VERY consistant results of the last two runs....
Parry does NOT seem to be reliant on weapon..... but whats up with the Block rate????

Soooo.... I also happen to have a 23 Guardian....

Ran the same test with him.....
Sword and sheild swings: 69 Hits: 45 Parrys: 5 Blocks: 8 Misses: 11

I need to go run him a bit with a different weapon set up.... but based on this very limited data set.... it doesn't look like a shield is a good bet for a zerker....

OK.... 2 more runs with my Zerker... results were consistant....

Then I logged off....

came back an hour later and symptoms had changed....

Now, not only was my Zerker blocking at a much higher rate than earlier... but my Gaurdian was also Parrying at a much higher rate....

Same chars, same equip, same critters....


Something is a bit strange, and streaky... here.... ( can you say lotto????... hmmmm)

lvl 42 zerker, when i tank i always use a shield and 1hander. never done any kind of damage logging but i know the healers notice a difference. it does seem that you proc much more often with 1 handers too, when DW i attack 5-6 times to once with my 1hander and proc less it seems.

i block alot. always.

and healers notice a big difference in using a shield and not using one.