Personally, I'd rather we not bust out the log files. I see this turning into another thread about some other class. If you want to discuss brigands, please do it in the correct forum. We spend way too much time talking about other classes.
Agreed, there are already parses all over threads in this and other forums....it isnt going to change any one persons opinion...it will just have us all engaged in YET another class vs. class thing. Saihung 53rd Ranked Ranger
If the thread contains claims about Brigands outdamaging Rangers then expect a Brigand to have something to say about it.... if you dont want the thread to become a comparison with other classes stop making comparisons with other classes. If you don't want to get embroiled in log files, don't make claims about what your log files show. I'm reminded of the Warlock in the main forum who titled a thread along the lines of "If we whine like Rangers will Warlocks get fixed?".... and then he threw a hissy fit when a bunch of Rangers turned up to take issue with him. If you don't want to talk about Brigands in this forum... don't talk about them.
Not to add fuel to the fire but said class just ruined me and another ranger in a group. At some points she did 50% more damage then both rangers, reason some rangers complan is because it is just that bad. Oh well...
It's not about comparisons. It's about you, a brigand who came to the Ranger forums and claimed that one of us made a false statement. And, instead of providing your proof, you demanded to see *his* logs. And it seems that everytime some other class comes here and makes challenging remarks, the thread gets derailed into some discussion about that particular class. There is nothing wrong with making DPS comparisons with other classes, and it's certainly not an invite to derail the thread into some idiotic discussion about why I'm more broken than you.
He's the one that said he had logs and that they dont lie.... I'm merely saying fine, post them.... it was a matter of opinion either way until a Ranger resorted to the higher authority of some logs somewhere... same as Infinity the other day with the claim that there's more high level Brigands on his server than Rangers.... I merely said, fine, which server? As for derailing the thread... the premise of the thread is comparing the Ranger class to other classes.... it's not detrailing one one of the other classes has the audacity to talk back. I would like to see Rangers improved. I personally would like to see parrying of ranged attacks eliminated.... I still haven't observed my Brigs ranged CA ever being parried and I remain convinced there's a parrying modifier on each CA that Rangers get the short end of the pointy stick on. I would like to see Ranger AAs improved. I feel the AA suite for Rangers is decidedly lackluster... I think they could have done better with recast timers for both Assassins and Rangers via AA but for some reason the devs appear incredibly gun-shy of Predators.... I'd like to see Rangers dps made more stable if that's possible as it appears highly variable.... I'd like so see all this if for no other reason than my alt is a Ranger, and while he might be only level 40 I enjoy playing him and would like to see his lot improved (there's no issue I can see at the low to mid levels, I just logged off from soloing even yellow wyrms literally non-stop for an hour in Lavastorm). Rangers got their first round of fixes though positive constructive feedback. If the Ranger community sinks into a downward negative cycle the devs will just avoid them. I'm convinced Warlocks and Wizards get the brushoff from devs and community with little more than "Wizards and Warlocks always whine". All that will happen is you'll add Rangers to that list. Comming out of the nerf the Ranger community was impressively possitive focused and I certainly feel it created an impression in the broader community. I also feel that there needs to be real focus on where Ranger issues lie so that they can be raised as specific issues with the devs.... we suck, everybody is better than us... simply isn't much the devs can get hold of.... there is an issue with both predators of highly variable results with their toons. One Assassin will report that his dps sucks. Another will report that he's topping the raid parses.... and I've seen similar statements from raiding Rangers.... why?... What is it that makes Predator dps so variable from toon to toon? Is it group composition? Lastly my very personal opinion is that in groups the dance between melee and ranged skills can be a real hamper, and dps can be lost moving between the two... it's not possible to move aside melee CA for the Ranger without killing solo ability (pure ranged soloing aint going to happen as the risk to life comes from getting hit upside the head).... might it be possible to add an ability that when used roots the Ranger in the spot and reduces his ranged CA recast timers and increases his melee recast timers?... this would allow Rangers to focus on Ranged combat exlusively in groups, increase their dps and not hamper their soloing.... just a thought.
Let's get something clear, since you decided to mention me. I generally post in-game occurrences or add to a situation that another ranger has experienced. Now some people can have their opinionated ideas and post all they want. I don't pay for anyone's subscription allowing him or her access to SOE's EQ2 boards so power to these people. Now there are serious problems with the ranger class, which MANY players with a plethora of hard earned stripes have documented (see the sea of posts on this forum). In no way shape or form is some fly by night gift to gaming going to tell me or the well-respected players, that have spent copious amounts of their precious time documenting said problem. Thanks and have a wonderful day!!!
In no way is some fly by night gift to gaming going to tell you what?... Something? Anthing? What is it you wont be told? Or are you simply the person that wont be told... especially by some fly by night. Oh and which server is it exactly has more high level Brigands on it than Rangers?.... or perhaps?.... gosh no, you're a well respected player.... surely... no... you wouldn't simply make stuff up now would ya? God forbid that somebody should call you and it and say "hey, you made that up!"
i would be more worried about the brawlers, who are supposed to be tier 3 dps than about the brigs, who are supposed to be tier 2. on our raids the ranger gets beaten in dps by brigands only once in a while, but brawler can match with them easily every time. also our ranger dont get outdamaged by a "good" brigand that is doing 800 dps, as the ranger is parsing higher ususally.
Do not belittle the rangers that have worked so hard providing analysis and feedback. Anyone who has posted or read these boards for a minute know exactly who they are. I used to wonder why none of them hardly post here anymore, unfortunatley I now understand...
Wow, I feel so much more enlightened and accepting of the problems rangers face as a class. What a RELIEF to know that brigands arent outdamaging us...because to be honest I could care less. What matters to me is the numbers. What is T1 damage numbers on average and where do we fit in on that....that is what matters to us. So, before you resume your derailment, ask yourself....Is this worth my time to post in a thread about a topic that isnt related, only to face opposition to your derailing it? I couldnt give two whits (let alone one) what your particular class does dps wise compared to rangers. I do care if you are a t1 dps class (hrmm...brigands are utility arent they?), I do care what your damage numbers are if they are in t1 and you arent dps. So...to reiterate, NO RODGER NO RERUN NO RENT!!! Saihung has lost his mind.
I see what you mean. This thread just turned into an out and out he/she said brawl...lol. Anyway, moving back on to topic...I agree whole heartedly that rangers only have dps. We cant contribute anything else to the group, no buffs, no heals (we do of course have debuffs and slows) and solo I pretty much am hard pressed to destroy as much health off a mob before it gets to me becuz once it does it starts to kick my butt...heh. Poison is an asset, but not much when I see other classes that I have nuke or beat the heck out of mobs that are green heroic. That's not at all a knock. I know there are reasons for this. I dont understand class distinction that well, so I dont knock it, I simply play those chars that have the traits I need for whatever mood I'm in. I might be in a tanking mood, or a healing mood, or a mood to sneak up stuff and smack it...lol, but whatever. I find that I still love my ranger as I've reached lvl 60...Thorny Trap a lvl 52 root that I only use when I'm soloing has helped me out alot. It does help me to arrow down whatever mob, in rational means, til i can get it far enough down that its either dead or once it gets to me its gonna die soon. And I can smack it as many times as I want, if it hits me harder but at a slower rate, I'm still gonna get my butt kicked, so carry alot of arrows, my kiddies and remember to use your slows. Oh a little off topic: my guild leader is a swash and she's always asking me if im using my combat skills everytime I can. I tell her yeah, so I think, but might be wrong that our recast timer is a bit slower than most. Becuz while I have most of my power left, hers is halfway gone during a fight. So I think its a matter of recast becuz I use my skills so that when most of them are still darkened I have one or two I can still use otherwise if i just mash one after another I cant do anything but use normal hits while everybody else is working their spells and skills? Message Edited by Likias on 04-10-200611:15 AM
Ok Ill post some From Trials Zone Gave some examples of short fight ,,30 ish seconds , longer 40 ish , about a min long fight , and 1.5 and a 2 min fight Even have a fight where Rangers come #1 in the parse ... the thing is ..rangers seem to be stuck in the 700's where Brigands can hin 900-1000 , so can monks for that matter, but our Str AA line monk wasnt on so it doesnt show up as oftern as it could. I picked these fights so they are biased, they are the fights where the brigand didnt die , where the brigand did well , where the fights were over 30 seconds. There were others where rangers came in 1st in the parse. the Dps was at 700 ish , and in most cases its because the monk died on the pull , or the brigand died in the fight the Assasssin pulled aggro. 700 ish DPS is not T1 in my opinion . These parses dont demonstrate how bad it can be in our raids at times. When we have 3 of our Brigands and 2 of our monks who chose the Str line the parses tend to look like Monk Brigand Monk Brigand Brigand Necro ................... (01:01) 507876 | 8,325.84 Brigand 49986 | 819.44 Illusionist 45251 | 741.82 Ranger 42887 | 703.07 Monk 40689 | 667.03 Illusionist 37323 | 611.85 Assassin 35467 | 581.43 Berserker 35326 | 579.11 Necro Pet 34921 | 572.48 Ranger 30343 | 497.43 Bruiser 26924 | 441.38 (00:41) 307503 | 7,500.07 Assassin 39005 | 951.34 Brigand 38686 | 943.56 Monk 31055 | 757.44 Ranger 30891 | 753.44 Illusionist 22186 | 541.12 Ranger 21653 | 528.12 Bruiser 18816 | 458.93 Guardian 17540 | 427.80 Illusionist 15796 | 385.27 Dirge 13283 | 323.98 (00:35) 307503 | 8,785.80 Brigand 32494 | 928.40 Ranger 27205 | 777.29 Ranger 25169 | 719.11 Necro Pet 24645 | 704.14 Illusionist 24374 | 696.40 Monk 23429 | 669.40 Bruiser 21575 | 616.43 Illusionist 19729 | 563.69 Wizard 18630 | 532.29 Berserker 18217 | 520.49 (02:40) 1539987 | 9,624.92 Brigand 133183 | 832.39 Monk 122843 | 767.77 Monk 119019 | 743.87 Wizard 113208 | 707.55 Assassin 106618 | 666.36 Ranger 89139 | 557.12 Necro Pet 88755 | 554.72 Illusionist 85774 | 536.09 Wizard 85677 | 535.48 Illusionist 84434 | 527.71 (01:42) 852905 | 8,361.81 Ranger 76867 | 753.60 Brigand 72658 | 712.33 Monk 71631 | 702.26 Assassin 68991 | 676.38 Illusionist 63643 | 623.95 Wizard 60597 | 594.09 Bruiser 57931 | 567.95 Illusionist 57442 | 563.16 Ranger 57116 | 559.96 Berserker 48717 | 477.62 Message Edited by KannaWhoopass on 04-10-200601:30 PM Message Edited by KannaWhoopass on 04-10-200601:34 PM
I wouldn't mind our DPS staying the same if we got some sort of utility to go with it. I mean Top End Tier 2 DPS w/some Utility...as of right now I see no reason why a Wizard or Ranger shouldn't be on the same playing field DPS wise (which we are not). Who here was a Ranger in EQ1? How many other skills did we have besides using a bow! Message Edited by Kaleyen on 04-10-200603:48 PM
I've been a Ranger in EQ1 since the Kunark release. Holy cow, do we have utility. We have a real speed increase with levitation, damage sheilds, buffs to just about every stat, heals, mob defuffs, roots (I can park up to 6 mobs at a time, others claim to be able to do 10), snares (snare is very important in EQ1), hell I can't remember all we have. I haven't played much since EQ2 release. But, it's a different game and Rangers are a utility class in that game. We don't have great DPS, but we can tank just about any non-raid mob in a well rounded group, and our DPS is good enough to get us by. And, with the right weapons, we can slow.
Eh, Ranger tanks = Ranger down...But we did have great damage with our Bows, and that was our claim to fame. Our heals, buffs, regens, etc were nice to have but there wasn't anything that would save a group if it went south for a Ranger, they were just things to make the class a true "Ranger"
Personally, i can't comprehend how rangers don't get the best dps. I've been in many groups with people 5 levels above me and we are parsing the same(bruisers assasins brigands etc etc) We are versatile during any encounter, whether it be a named boss fight, or a encounter of 100 things. Being level 60 i have a constant dps of around 500 during the right encounters i grab about 800 and if my abilities are down i still get about 400. This is without poisons or sniper fire. While i parse in every group i go to i get the top dps 95% of the time when they are within 5 levels, (i even beat a 67 ranger) So it might not be just because rangers don't have the abilities, you just have to use them in the right order to acheive your maximum potential. And Ranger tanks are the win... 60 ranger tanking in SoS with his ironwood shield and cobalt longsword /flex Jest 60 Ranger Befallen Server The Rallosian Guard Master of Masters
Those dps numbers are pretty below what good assassins, swashies and brigands could get. The assassin in our guild regular outdoes me by 20-50% even if I have snipe up. He is a bit better geared but not that much better.
the numbers are also below what good rangers could get. or at least below what our rangers get in this zone.
What I find most interesting from a sociological point of view is that every class who asks for more DPS (or claims they should have their DPS) always cite they have less utility that other classes - Wizards ("evac isn't utility"), Warlocks, Assassins, Necros ("monks can FD more than we do"), Conjurers ("shards? coth? not combat, doesn't count") all do it, and Rangers are no exception. It doesn't mean these people are wrong (altho I do disagree with the concept of "no utility" these classes claim they have generally), I just find it interesting that so many classes have this view. In my non-uber guild, Summoners wins hands down, doing roughly 700 to 1000 DPS, Zerkers, SKs and Monks come next, hitting 500 to 700. After that we have Rangers at around 400-600. Everyone else, including Sorceres and Rogues, then to fall in the 300 area. This is roughly the same in raid and in small groups in my experience. Interestingly, level difference doesn't do a whole lot. The level 63 Conj does similiar DPS as the 70. The 70 Wizard doesn't do much more than the 62. (Maybe my level 70s are slackers =D). Anyway, there's something wrong with the damage tiers, imo, but I think most people agree. What most disagree on is whose class should have more.
