Azrael_888 wrote: Devs giving us their current timeline is not a "promise". It's communication. Stuff happens, things change, schedules have to be adjusted. And they've been communicating that too. And IMO Sentinel's Fate is bigger and more polished. 10 days to go!
Rothgar wrote: i thank you for your swift replay and hope this can be something that gets fixed early in to the next exp to say the least Uncle
When this post got moved to the ranger forums I despaired of it ever being read or addressed. The very fact that it got a dev response at all makes my day, and the fact that its a "we're working on it" is just icing on the cake, hopefully it will be sooner rather then later.
Striikor@Nektulos wrote: Still not hot on advocating something that would almost certainly be nerfed later. They could put something in small enough where it wouldn't get nerfed but it would be more or less ineffectual if our DPS problems are so dire. Although if they put in aoe auto/flurry in the same day they nerf casting and recast on 'Hunter's Instinct' I imagine many rangers wouldn't care heh. As for Azraels reply, unless the devs say 'I promise', its not a promise.
Rothgar wrote: Good answer. Finally a Dev that not only communicates but does it honestly and makes sense.
Calthine wrote: That is your "casual" mentality. In my "hardcore" mentality, Sentinel's Fate is currently bugged and is in unfinished state. There are a lot of things that needs to be done in 10 days that the developers have had so many months to do so. I'm sorry to break your hope but it is certainly not polished as well.
Calthine wrote: I wish you weren't paid to say that, because I'd like to believe it. However I look at the state of the game under Gallenite and now, and its not even comparable. Gallenite was able to do an expansion every six months and still get GUs out on time, and then when they moved expansions to a year , he was able to do them on time and get out 10 or 11 GUs as well. Sure the game had issues back then, and so did the expansions - but they were doing them on time. All the preamble around these huge delays in 09 (almost everything that went live in 09 was delayed) and with SF were supposedly to guarantee polish and more content, neither of which have been delivered. Also, saying SF is bigger and more polished isn't very honest Calthine, at least imo. However I guess we play for different things and maybe Domino's part of the expansion is done, and that is what you're commenting on since its your main concern? I'm sure this post violates one of Kiara's many rules and I'm sure I'll get suspended from these forums again if not worse but someone chose to bring my words here and you chose to comment on them and as such I feel the need to defend myself as non-confrontational as I can. Comparing 09 to now to the game under Gallenite isn't even possible. The only players I see staunchly defending this current team and this current state of the game either have extremely casual attitudes or whose livings are padded by reporting on SOE in some way.
Rothgar wrote: I cannot express my gratitude for this reply. Thank you. Please let it be as soon as possible, because as soon as SF releases, rangers are going to be in a terrible way. They really and truly need a serious overhaul.
I appreciate the reply, and understand the trouble with the mechanics of aoe and flurry. However, the extremely low ranged dps compared to melee dps is not a new mechanic that has to be fixed. It should be a simple matter of adjusting ranged damage components. At the bare minimum, you could boost the mythical damage rating. It is rediculous that 2 low end melee weapons can out dps the auto of the mythical in the hand of a ranger. And by a large percentage.
Calthine wrote: Ok. So devs giving us a timeline isn't a promise, but when they do it over and over, at what point do you realise what's happening around you instead of just nodding your head and going with it? Yes, stuff happens and things change, but that's no excuse for things to be pushed back longer and longer. To hear a dev say that they do not have enough time is what I find to be the most interesting. Not only did they have a whole 15 months to work on this, but they pretty much should have been working on this and only this, since the last GU pretty much had no content and Halas is being pushed back. BG's are not even on beta yet, and they have been one of SOE's biggest marketing points to the xpac/GU. And to say that SF is bigger and more polished is funny as well. Things are still buggy and not tweaked, content still hasn't been implemented, and here we are 10 days from the pre-order launch! I have a feeling that week will be pre-order beta testing and then the first 3 or 4 months of the xpac is going to be "live testing" Again, I'm not trying to offend anyone or put anyone down, but when I see people saying things like this, I have to wonder if they even log into the game.
AE ranged auto attack and Flurry or Flurry type effects will NOT fix rangers, nor will they bring a ranger inline to a equally geared/mastered Assassin,Swash.Brigands are equal to Rangers in some cases, and this is just the melee end. Ranged auto attack is currently lower than melee auto attack. Our CAs ext dps compared to a swashbuckler or assassin are much lower. Why ? Because the have iniate higher base damage / lower reuse / lower casting speeds than rangers. Before Aeralik took over we were balanced for high auto attack damage, and high proc rates. Its part of why we had lower damage / higher reuse / higher casting speeds CAs. He changed the melee auto attack mechanic in the last LU of EoF (bards rejoyiced), our assassin took over the parse the day of that LU. Before that we were always battleing it out, after - he won unless he died. RoK it got worse due to the arrow fix, and melee getting better weapons. We got the arrow "fix" which was nothing more than him lowering the damage modifier on bows to match the arrow damage. For those that were not here: When you took off your quiver your bow would display for example 1000-4000, you would put a current tier arrow in your quiver and your bow would display (example) 700-3000. So you lost damage by equipping your arrows. When Aeralik "fixed" the arrows, after the LU your bow displayed the 700-3000 instead of the 1000-4000 that should have happened. So he nerfed the bow modifier to match the arrow damage, and its been that way ever since. After the melee auto attack buff, cant proc off melee weapons and we got the normalized proc rate fix, and then the cant be modified proc fix. So we no longer proced at higher % due to haveing a bow or off melee weapons. So you see, flurry and ae ranged auto will NOT fix this class. The modifier on the bow has to be upped or the bows have to have much higher DR than melee weapons. Our CAs MUST be tweaked to be inline with assassins / swashys since they are out of date due to the mechanic changes listed above. Basically we have to be rebalanced due to the reasons above, we dont need more CAs, or special items. The devs fixed DA, Crit,Crit bonus to all be the same so thats a good start, dont mess it up by adding "special" things/items that are going to get replaced, just rebalance the CAs we already have and fix the bow modifier (or arrow modifier) to where it was before Aeralik nerfed it.
Getting responses from Rothgar is nice, but like people have pointed out already, unless you hear "I promise", there's no promises. Sometimes, when you hear "I promise", it doesn't turn out to be the case, anyway. I get that the devs have a lot to do and not a lot of time to do it in so what the rangers want done doesn't seem like a big deal in the grand scheme of things... You know, it's interesting if you take a stroll around the class boards what you find. I checked all the other classes to see just who else was making noise like the rangers about issues with their respective classes and I was surprised. Everybody knows the stereotypes, those things that there's always exceptions to, but it's widely regarded to be fact... summoners suck, brawlers are wanted on a raid for their buffs, but no one wants them in their group, no one ever wants a fury for anything... rangers. The funny thing is, (and Rothgar or whatever other devs who may read this, go see for yourself, don't take my word for it) it's not there like I expected it to be. None of the other classes seem nearly as concerned with the state of their class going into this expansion as the rangers are... What does that say? Where does that land us on the priority list? Where should it? It's a bad state of affairs when top-end raid guilds are either asking, telling, of having their rangers (the few there are left) decide on their own to betray or reroll. When you can sit and spam 70-79, "80 ranger lfg for pof/outer SH, pst" and unless people know who you are, you won't get picked up. People have no problems taking a ranger to DF because the zones a farm run and a well trained monkey could pull it off on any class, but try to get a pickup spot for a zone that isn't a total pushover, and see how long you're left sitting there waiting. Why is it there's more complaining going on here than any of the other class forums? Maybe there's not enough of some of those other classes left out there to even bother to have a voice. Maybe they're genuinely getting their problems addressed and there's no need for them to complain. Maybe people who play rangers as their mains are predisposed to complain a lot in general. Maybe it really is that there's just that much stuff that's jacked up with our class. I haven't traditionally complained about the class (as much) as a lot of people have because despite all the stuff in the past that's been less than ideal, I've usually managed to personally do rather well, all things considered. But after taking a look around at a bit more of the big picture, things really do look pretty bad for the class going into this expansion. So to wrap this up, Rothgar, Xelgad, whoever pulls the trigger on the changes... If you're saying it's going to get addressed, but time's not going to allow it to be before the expansion lands, ok. Fine. Given what I've seen and heard on beta, I believe it when you guys say there's bigger fish to fry in the next couple of weeks. That being said, after all those things settle down and you stop to take the time to say "what's next?", and you have to prioritize whether the ranger class changes and respective potential changes to some of the relevant buffs/stats are gonna come in a month or two, or more like four or five months... Remember that as things stand right now, as far as your player feedback is concerned people are complaining a lot more about the ranger class than any other. In the beta forums, as well as the public. That may change, maybe something big will blow up and need addressed that no one could foresee at this point, but just remember how things are shaping up at this point in time before were 6 months down the road... Rothgar wrote:
@ Upirus Exactly !!! After thinking over it. It is good to hear that you want to look into it. But my concern is WHEN !!!! Many of us, including me, hoping of a timely manner from you guys within 2,3,4 weeks after expansion. But for all we know the "Arrow fixes" in ROK took 5 months into expansion, so how long will it be a couple of weeks, 3months,6 months,9 months just before next expansion beta ? Atm Devs disadvantage the ranger class as a raiding class by not having not really important things changed. I was thinking about what neiloch said not giving us something now that would neeed to be removed in a revamp. How about some meaningful utility giving us now ? I know most ranger want dps but thats not an option right now. Why not giving ranger a temp debuff, like noxious enfeeblement (duration and reuse timer wise), that dispelled damage shields of raid mobs ?
Thanks for the response to this, I'm glad the devs see there is a problem and are working to fix it. As for the responses... Wow.... Some one actually comes on to the ranger forums and gives us a straight answer and most of you still complain. I haven't played a ranger for long and from my understanding things have been off for a long time, but when someone comes and actually gives you some information all you do is complain? Maybe this is why ranger don't get looked at more often? Maybe past devs haven't spent time on this board because all you do is insult them and tell them the fixes they are doing aren't good enough. These guys have 24 classes to work on plus more duties, give them a break. Some of you act like rangers are the only class that have issues and the devs should only be working on them. Bugs are going to be rampant in the new expac, just like they are in every expac or MMO when launched. The fact that they are going to try to do anything with ranger issues while the entire team will be working to make the game itself work as intended is wonderful news. /rant off Again, thank you so much Rothgar for the information and pass the thank you on to Xelgad as well.
Venez@Permafrost wrote: ^^^ This Aeralik SCREWED OUR CLASS OVER and we have not seen a proper fix since he took over and has since left/been fired. Until these EXTREMELY VALID points that Venez has pointed out have been addressed this class will always be broken. I would also throw in some sort of hate transfer as well. I don't care how you put it. Hate Transfer > Decrease hate generated ANY DAY!
Pattywak@Kithicor wrote: For TWO YEARS we have been shown the door from our "t1" DPS to be shoved off to the table at the restaurant right next to the bathrooms. Everyone and their brother came up with excuses as to why we were over powered. One of the more popular reasons was: We don't have to joust cause we are ranged DPS so we can continue to attack when other scout classes can't - BS we have to joust with everyone as if we want to DPS we have to be in close proximity to the mob due to the fact that we have a proc on our myth that allows us more DPS if we are closer. O and don't forget the fact that we have our melee CA's which DO MORE DMG than 80% of our ranged CA's. Fact of the matter is we were shafted back I think it was sometime around EoF. Please correct me if I'm wrong. And since then we have only received an arrow "fix" and that was the end of it. If you look at gear in this game 95% of scout gear is for melee classes. How many rings/cloaks/wrist items have +dbl attack and + mellee crit compared to + rngd dbl attack and + rngd crit? I can almost gurantee you that it's around that number when compared. So many people are tired of the "ranger argument" (I'm seriously not surprised that there is no wikipedia article on it yet) that they just completely ignore us. I mean it's like brawlers. No one gives a rats behind about brawlers. In fact if a brawler sends me a tell to join a grp I'm 95% of the time going to ignore it. So excuse us for being all mad at the devs when they come on a board and say, "HEY, we're going to take a strong look at it for you guys." because we know how these devs work. They come in trying to quiet us down with a few words and then people like you come out of the woodwork stating that, "all you guys are dumb for complaining. give these Devs a break! don't you know they have 23 other classes/expansions/GU's/their lifes to be working on atm?" I can gurantee you (scrolls up for the this /random players station name) ...Pattywak@kithicor... that this "fix" won't come earlier than 6 months from now. They still have WAY bigger problems to fix than rangers atm. BG's and itemization plus raid zones to name a few. So calm down with your higher than thou attitude and realize that we've been playing this class a lot longer than you and I guarantee that we care about it a whole lot more than you too.
