This is with only expert CA's, on a memwiping, run-all-over-the-zone-chasing-mages mob, so my back attacks and stealth combos are lower than normal. Also with handcrafted poisons, and no clicky items up. "Even on TLE scout AA is still bigger than the OP pet damage of summoners at 50." Don't think so. Certainly not on anything with 2 or more mobs.
Maergoth, one thing that does point out is..in order for your ranger: #1 Auto attack #2 proc #3 proc #4 proc #5 proc #6 CA #7 proc #8 proc So, the implication (by others) that summoners doing all their damage basically without pushing any buttons is disingenuous at best. How did that fight break down for spots 1-5 on the raidwide parse? My experience both on live (necro) and TLE (conj) is that my pet does NOT do the highest % of my damage. It's significant to be sure, but not top. That's also consistent with parses I've looked at of other summoners.
It's not a skill thing, or about pushing buttons. It's about a necro getting one expert or master, and zero gear, and being able to perform. Whereas I have a full set of the best gear available, and I need at least a handful of experts to do what I do.
If you've been in a "content progression raid guild" on live in the past couple of years you would know that scout DPS will continue to be at top all the way until Sentinel's Fate by auto-attack and passive effects alone. However, summoners fall off "Tier 1 dps" by KoS and never come back. So if there's a real problem that should be addressed that a couple of months won't fix, it is scouts. These nerf threads are dumb. Summoners are boring and so are rangers, because they are always about 3-4 skills at most in groups and raids. Sorry if you chose a scout and you're mad you have to get gear to do what pets do, no one to blame but yourself for the class you picked. I look forward to this ongoing saga when people rage that scouts do nothing for top dps and you have no one else you can point at in a similar position.
I don't see a reason they shouldn't be. There may have been damage vs. utility tradeoffs of sorcerers & summoners one point, but those no longer exist. Their utility is on par, or worse, than sorcerers. Summoners are easier to play (trading increment shenanigans for pet micro), but I consider both trivial enough to warrant the same tier. Neither aspect is present on TLE servers.
On live necros can rez, feign death, rebirth and actually heal decently. This owns both sorcs crappy proc buffs. On TLE necro can rez, not sure what more. And Conjus Geotic Rune is pretty significant on TLE especially with the nerfed Mit.
vs. a transfer, significant damage procs & groupwide temps, in the case of warlocks trigger chance boost, etc. The only "utility" that really stands out (summoner-side) is the %hp debuff (necro), serene serenade replacement (necro), and stoneskins (conji). It really is somewhat of a wash. There is utility on both sides, but not enough to institute a tier difference.
if they get to be tier 1 then brigands and swashys better get t1 status and dps too. and if tha thappens i want my guardian to be tier2
Sure why not, but lets keep it about pet classes. Semi-possible to do some zones without a priest, impossible to do any* zone without a fighter. Should be fairly evident where most utility lies. *Excluding 3x priest 1x tank beastlord lolz shenanigans
Problem is not to be or not to be t1 DPS class - problem comes that some class become universally top of DPS on ANY type of encounter.. To give you an example - in EQ1 necro were a king of damage and king of solo but with kickers - necros were champs on single target, endurance fights (like 30+minutes) in cases when they can not just stack DOTs but also maintain them consistent over duration of right... It was also melee counterpart of necro - rogue... On the burst fights kings were wizards and their melee counterpart rangers... Zerks/Mages were sort of t2 read - they would beat necro on burst fight but fall behind wizard same goes for endurance fights - they would be wizards but fall behind necro and that was a balance. If some class comes out on top regardless of type of encounter game need some fix. Really why necro would outperform warlock on AoE fight? It's not about nerf..... Look once upon time sommoners were crying wolf about solo ability of warlocks and wizards ... story ended up with nerfing warlock and wizards roots - single most reliable instrument of solo for sorc class
I could buy 2 or 3 krono with all the money I've spent on arrows and poisons. Not including the experts, masters, gear and such. I picked the wrong class, obviously, since zero consideration should be given to the investments required to outperform everyone else in terms of solely single target DPS. Lets ignore that summoners are still hugely more effective in solo, group, raid and pvp content overall. It's not just about DPS. Honestly, it's BS. And that's at level 50. It's even worse in the 20s and 30s. No reason to even play anything but a summoner. I'm doing just fine DPS wise. The bill has been paid, and it's mostly irrelevant anyway at this point for me. But for every other scout in the game. Good luck bro. The road is long. You'd be better off just rerolling if you're not 40+ yet.
I'd argue with you here thou ... To be flat honest the only melee class I have played is bruiser .. not to much fun for me. But I do have 2 main chars warlock and coercer both are really fun to play. Coercer with master charm its really fun to play... Warlock also even thou the only CC I had on him is 2 crappy roots - game changers are mercs (for solo). To be on the top of the food chain on the raid - any class would have to invest big time in their gear
That's just not true. I'd be willing to bet that a summoner gains less than 20% of his DPS from his gear. Probably closer to 10-15, and most of that only comes from having a level 50 weapon. Mages get benefits such as not being interrupted when casting, from their gear, or mana cost reduction stuff. Non-pet mage classes are in a similar boat to rangers. To get your character to function adequately, you have to minmax like crazy, invest in every single one of your spells, and make sure every gear slot is positively influencing your damage. Where they are DIFFERENT from scouts is that scouts have the option of picking up DPS/Haste pretty easily, which is hugely powerful and necessary. Which leaves non-summoner mages in a tiny pit of maximum effort with minimum results, since their gear does not provide as much of an impact. Rangers are maximum effort with maximum results. At least we end up doing respectable DPS on single target. Summoners are minimal effort with maximum results. Tons of all-around ability which requires a decent weapon, an expert or master mage pet, and maybe a temp pet or two at expert or master. Which, by the way, is half the price (or less) of getting scout experts. I would feel especially awful if I was a warlock or wizard.. or swash/brig. Good luck to those guys.
Ah, having read through your more recent posts and, while you haven't come right out and said so, I now understand why you chose not to respond to my question regarding listing who spots 1-5 were for the raidwide of the parse that you posted above. You were on top. That doesn't particularly bolster your argument for how broken summoners are when you win the named fights on your ranger. It's silly to imply that top summoners don't strive to maximize their gear, spells, and everything just like every other class does. Yes, rangers need to buy poison along with the other 3 poison users which is not a "fair" cost and I don't like that mechanic. My raiding main is a brig on live and just last night I had to pay 60P to buy 2 hiven roots to make a single batch of hemo. Prices are up again I'm assuming due to the severe lack of players out harvesting. Yes, rangers also need to buy/craft arrows which is why I largely abandoned mine somewhere along the lines of KoS. Even with the mechanics changes (not using ammo on CAs, etc.) since that time I still find it to be burdensome. However, that should have zero bearing on this conversation and is a topic for a different thread (in the scout forums). I'm still not even saying that summoners may not be OP. But, all we are seeing from those posting doom and gloom in this thread is a lot of hyperbole and opinions unsupported by evidence.
On TLE, summoners are the tops without a doubt. Mine is not very well geared, she has a few apprentices left, no masters, I didn't want to spend a lot of money on her (so, cheap treasured off broker). She still does more DPS than most scouts / other (non-summoner) mages I've played with. In RoV, she was pulling 1200-2000 DPS in Halas gear with just the pet expert and rest apprentices. At 50, I dunno, I don't really group with her at 50 cause I can solo everything and keep the loot for myself. On non-TLE, I never found them particularly broken. On TLE, I kinda don't ever want to do groups without at least one summoner cause I know if I get a summoner, it'll go so, so much faster. But, I have heard they can't really do much to the pet classes on TLE without hurting them on live. So, think we just have to deal with it til AAs come in and things even out more.
Just so ppl dont go overboard and make daybreak mess more up. Pre lvl 100 lifeburn is op. after level 100 its useless way way underpowered
Oh, btw speaking about necros ... What is the optimum pet for solo (aside of merc )? I'd guess if I am running with merc I should be better off with warlock pet (offensive stance) and if w/o merc it should be tank pet? (and what stance btw)
