Contested Need to Go

Alvane@Unrest wrote:

Timetravelling wasn't even a raid designer per say, he did some x2 stuff and one mob. Patherpanchelli is, has, and will be EQ2's raid designer for the forseeable future.
Alvane@Unrest wrote:

I referenced my source multiple times:
http://eq2.guildprogress.com/
Over 350+ raid guilds with at least 1 SF x4 raid kill that they're actively tracking. So there are probably more that don't.
24-30 is a minimum amount, 24 being you can't effectively raid with less, 30 being the max most hardcore guilds will house.
A raid guild to me is one working on current progression, I don't count past tiers as raiding, but if you want to that will only enlarge the playerbase I'm talking about.

Split Arkathanthis from Xilaxis and the trash ring event. Its two totally different encouters. Such a time sink to me with my elite skills to have to waste time fighting what any scrub can do with 5 other people.
In fact, lets remove all trash mobs entirely from raid zones- any scrub guild can clear trash- and if it does drop loot its beyond crap. Btw, i can roll any class tomorrow and be better than 99.9% of the people who play this game- cause well- you're all scrubs and i am elite.
Actually, let's just make one zone with just the hardmodes. It'd be like pr. No trash. No more pulling PC to get to Waansu. Ark can just be standing in the room by himself with no ring event. The contested hm's can all be their too.
Push easy button now to make this happen.

gloraron wrote:

If you start the HM encounter and wipe the entire thing restarts allowing you to choose easy or hard again. You don't kill easy to spawn hard, you either fight easy or hard.
On top of all that, its instanced.

gloraron wrote:

Or keep the 3 trash mobs in but make it so another raid force can't despawn the named by killing 3 trash mobs? You people are either uninformed and dense. Or I still am pretty sure people are just trolling for Dav responses now.
Though this is yet again another flawed example because ignoring the difference of instanced mobs and contested mobs is a huge factor. Instance mobs were made to be greedy over, they are nobody but the raid forces that enters and its not being displayed as a competition. I am still in bewilderment how many people here see just undertaking in a competition that provides a short-cut.
Remember in Mario 64 in the penguin slide level there was that invisible wall shortcut that you could take to skip the hard part of the course? Remember if you took it, even if you won, you didn't get qualified as winning. I dunno, It goes to anything in the name of competition, what good is competition when a short-cut is provided and you are actually rewarded for it? Sillys.

If you wipe to the challenge mode ox- the whole thing doesnt respawn- allowing you to choose easy or hm again? Think i missed your point.
Whether or not the design is flawed for the easy/hm version in an open zone due to lag- this fight is the same exact as any other hm in the game. In tox's lair you use an orb if you want normal mode. On twins you kill the chaperon dudes and keep them apart. On maaluus you right click, on pc you right click, on xilxas you right click, on sages you right click. On Ox you use a staff. Normal or challenge is determined by a simple little mechanic each way.
It's not the design thats the problem and never has been- its the epic lag. You now have how many endless pages of qq in this thread trying to prove the fight is two different encounters, and everyone else who thinks otherwise is scrub and doesnt know what they are talking about. The design is fine. The lag is not. Let the qq die already.

It simply does not matter anymore since the good loot drops from Icy keep, contested were obviously an afterthought this xpac much like the pvp servers.

gloraron wrote:

Nopes, you have to KILL easymode Ox to be able to use the staff to despawn HM. In all the other variations you chose before the fight begins.

Carthrax wrote:

Awesome, Keep it up!

In all honesty, nobody would care too much if they were killing the same encounter but that isn't the case. Yes, especially hardcore raiders are competitive and they hate losing a mob, but if it happened and another guild killed the exact same mob, they wouldn't be too mad since they know to be ready next time, but when a 1 groupable mob gets killed despawning an x4 mob, its totally different.

Alvane@Unrest wrote:

StaticLex wrote:

Tell you what, you give me an example of any individual that had figured something out in any field at all in human history, and figured this out without any form of training, education, tutorship or experiance, and I will point you to the single individual that they convinced, one on one, that got the idea heard, or the experiance they gained in order to get their idea heard.
I mean, even the Wright brothers couldn't get anyone to listen to them about flight until they had provided themselves with experiance, by creating a heavier than air flying machine. They tried to get funding, they tried to get exposure, but no one listened. Once they got that experiance though, the whole world listened. They may have been right from the very beginning, but they had nothing to back their assumptions up with... no experiance, no credintials, no nothing.
People don't just listen to every idea they come across, they first look at who it is that is saying it. Even you do this, otherwise you would spend your whole day listening to people on the streets wearing sandwitch boards, telling you how the world will end in 2012.
That, by the way, is you in this discussion. The uninformed crazy person with the big ideas that he has totally convinced himself are correct, yet has no basis for forming those thoughts, and no experiance in the field where those thoughts belong. Have fun with your sign!

Gaige wrote:

Thanks for the info on Timetravelling and Patherpanchelli, being I presume, the latter who designed the contested mobs of T-9.
I am aware of the guild progress which is not a verifiable source of whether or not a guild did or did not kill or clear a raid zone. Although I won't name guilds, I found several rather quickly that had information that was erroneous.
However, that is neither here nor there, since data processing for SoE to know if "raiders" are the ones who are the main income source for players would be like a needle in a haystack. However, SoE can readily pull from it's data banks the number of active accounts as of July 1, 2010 and compare them as to length of activity. How many were active for 6 years, 5, years, 4 years, etc. Knowing which accounts have characters that raided at least once, if not 1000 times amoung them would be superfluous. Longevity of one account is much more important than whether a character of that account raided or not raided.
So, according to the definition you presented, a progression raid guild who raids in T-7 is not considered a raid guild, even though all the characters are of level. And that only guilds who raid in the capped tier can be considered raid guilds. I'm a bit surprised that your definition is so narrow, but so be it.

Alvane@Unrest wrote:

Raiding doesn't make you a raider, just as drinking doesn't make you an alcholic.

Pervis wrote:

I agree - I believe the only statistic SoE could pull from its databanks are the lengths of accounts, how many characters are in each class and range of levels, but that's about it. Unless they wish to delve into every account that is active as of July 1, 2010 and pull every character at level 90 and go into the character's history to discover if that character was present in a raid zone - and rinse and repeat to discover how many times that character has raided, there are no real accurate figures available.
The number of peeps that box would certainly be interesting. I have no idea what that number would be. I've known a few boxers over the years and have "duo'd" with a couple, mostly instances and a couple old raid zones of SS days. That was fun and challenging to say the least.
As to your desire to know the names of guilds that are boxing guilds, I'll check on unrest to see if they still advertise. If they do, I'll post their name, if not, I won't. I do personally know two boxing guilds - one on unrest and one on Crushbone that are private guilds. I guess I was fortunate that I (due to friendships and needing a "home") was part of their guilds even though I am not a boxer. They only do private invites and do not advertise even in the recuiting areas. I will say, both had less than 15 players, but like your guild, many more accounts. However, I am respecting their privacy and will not publish their names. They have reasons for keeping their boxing guilds private and I'll leave it at that.
However, do check the guilds who advertise under recruitment page (normally "U" if you aren't a guild member, but you can select the same thing from your guild's recruitment page), and I wouldn't be a bit surprised if you run into a couple here and there.

Gaige wrote:

Except for your fav raid mob - T-8 Haladan If you can recall, there were two ways of dealing with that encounter. You could select before the fight began, or you can fight EZ and let it revolve into HM or let it terminate at the EZ level.
This is why I believe who ever designed T-9 contesteds (Patherpanchelli?) used the Haladan encounter model in the T-9 contested encounters and made it public. Only, you use a staff to despawn (or prevent) HM at the end of the EZ kill rather than just stopping the dps to terminate the EZ mode fight as one could choose to do with Haladan.
So there is at least one variation in which you do not have to choose before the fight begins. Haladan

I seem to wonder if people like StaticLex and Rahatmattata are from Conviction. They are probably too ashamed to reveal themselves because they know the guild they're in is beyond terrible.

Alvane@Unrest wrote:

However it is a verifiable source of the number of guilds who are raiding enough to have the interest in tracking it on an external website. You can argue that all you want, I really don't care.

Alvane@Unrest wrote:

YOU CAN NOT COMPARE INSTANCED CONTENT WHICH IS THE PROPERTY OF ONE GUILD TO CONTESTED CONTENT WHICH ISN'T. WHY IS IT OKAY FOR SCRUBS TO CHOOSE THE DIFFICULTY IN A RACE AGAINST ME? IT ISN'T. CONTESTS NEED TO HAVE THE SAME RULES FOR ALL PARTICIPANTS IN ORDER TO BE MECHANICALLY SOUND.
The "only" contest that exists is for easymode and since we can kill it with six players and since you have to kill it prior to even attempting hardmode that is a contest we win all the time. In fact I'm pretty sure no guild could beat us at that contest since the only way for us to wipe to easymode is if all of us went LD.
There is no reason at all to defend a mechanic that not only lets players compete with different rules but also reinforces a mechanic where losers can actually win. My guild can form up, pull, and defeat easymode first and when we go after the content designed for us, if we happen to wipe, another guild can form up, pull and defeat easymode SECOND and win the encounter via a clicky by bypassing the content my guild was interested in.
PLEASE EXPLAIN TO ME WHY YOU FEEL IT MAKES SENSE FOR A GUILD TO WIN A COMPETITION BY BEATING A MOB AFTER MY GUILD BEAT IT? WHAT MAKES THEM BEING UNABLE TO DO THE HARDMODE MOB WORTHY OF WINNING A CONTEST WITH SOMEONE WHO IS ABLE OF KILLING IT. HOW DOES ME KILLING EASYMODE FIRST BUT LOSING MAKE SENSE?
It doesn't unless you are jealous or hardcore/skilled raid guilds that can kill mobs you can't. That is the only factor that would make anyone favor this broken, silly, unfair mechanic.

Gaige wrote:

Caps makes it important! =)
But to be honest, on too many servers, there is no one racing the top dog without it being the way it is now. Certainly you understand thats why the designed it the way it is.
Personally, if the loot tables are going to remain what they are for contesteds, then I don't really see the need for the 'choose your own contested' system. However, if they're going to add more value to items just cause its on a contested HM than an instanced HM, I do have to agree with the changes they've made to atleast have 'more than one horse in the race'.

Atan@Unrest wrote:

No, no I do not. I shouldn't be punished for being too good at this game. That is silly. If however that is the stance of SOE, they should split the mobs. I didn't kill the Dominus, I'm not going to kill easymode contested for loot that is so bad you can't sell it.
Atan@Unrest wrote:

So if the HM items are made better you think its a good idea for guilds to be able to despawn it without actually fighting it so what, my guild doesn't get better because we're already too good?
Great attitude.

Gaige wrote:

No, if itemization is weighted cause the drop is 'contested' then changes to the previous system that encourage an actual race to get the item is better than what we had before.
If there is no race, there isn't really a need for it to be weighted, thats all.