Consolidated List of Broken Guardian Stuff II

This post has moved: /eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=445320&post_id=5435457 Insults are not necessary on these forums...

Bruener wrote:

Survivability is about staying alive. Nothing (and I mean NOTHING) else matters. If your alive all is good. If your dead all is bad. Bloodletter is 100% the best survivabilty boost in the game. It trumps anything a Guardian can do in any way shape or form. Cry all you want but staying alive is the key and SK's do that better than ANYBODY.

Toranx@Crushbone wrote:

the Stonekins do not mean as much as a lot of people think. they are nice, but do not give an edge at all for the class. I was a Guardian, I am now a Zerk. Looking at pass parces, fights where I used a shield and ToS, as a guard I took more damage than I do as a zerk DW'n. The always on 5% less damage, addes up a lot more for a class, than ToS come close to. the Paladin who has less gear then me (and had less masters when I was a guard) took even less damage doto the 10% damage reduction from the Myth buff. the Zerk and the Paly both put out a lot more damage than the Guard dose too. I can say with out a doubt, by looking at damage incoming numbers, Paladins and Zerks, take a lot less than a Guard dose with a Shield on and using all the "OP" stone skins.

its really hard to keep playing with how things are. Guards still are the weaksauces. And im in **** raidgear and have been a raider on him for years.
Chim

Yes I know this is an old post.
Having retired my Guardian to an alt, I am unsure of what the current problems are with Guardians in DoV. Could one of the current Guardian MT's start a new issues thread or update this one.
Seeing that we will never be the top DPS class tank wise, we should be the defensive leader! Personally I'd like to see the Wis mitigation buff changed to a Crit Mit buff. Along with Guardian specific Crit Mit abilities.

dps wise, I don't think we suffer that much in DoV.
At least with DoV stuff.
On the critic mitig side of things, we already have Critical Bulwark (Heroic AA) which can be of great value in MT group.
But your suggestion, is an interesting one. Wis line is of no interest currently and such a change would make it more appealing. But it would also require to update Belly Smash to remove the "knockd down" requirement (which has been asked/beged many times already) in order to provide some interest . BTW, there's a fair number of red adornments that procs a mitig debuff and don't require the mob to be knocked down.

Emlar@Storms wrote:

I've been working on getting AA on my Guardian. He's woefully behind.I'll check out Critical Bulwark.
But I agree, after DoV my Guardian seemed to be pretty playable. At least solo wise. I've only done a couple groups and usually only to help members get updates for mythic buffs or chrono zones.
Something needs to be done with the Wis line as it's pretty much a joke from day one and with the recent changes even more so.
Also I'm wondering if our temporary buffs are now less usefull because of the changes.

They were (some may argue) and are still very usefull, at least from a raid perspective.
Most of deaths come from flurry or multiple attack. So, despite a quite high avoidance (40%+ block chance), you may still have a couple or triple of hits. Increasing our mitigation is one element to stay alive. Even with diminish return, I still benefit from an additional 1500 mitig. Ans it should be even more important against challenge raids, but we will be starting them only next week. So I will leave more advanced guardians to tell you more about this aspect.
Not only Battle cry provides a substantial mitig increase but, coupled with Critical Bulkwark, it increases my group critical mitig by 12% (I put only 8 AAS in it) for 50 secs, with less than 20 secs reuse.
And since I'm quite defensive, I admit that I spent 10 AAs in Emboldened and 5 AAs in Guardian's Will to improve Hunker Down. I always cast Hunker down before pulling a named

Hmm, I always cast Battle cry instead of hunker so the group has extra mit incase a Melee AOE goes off on inc, each to their own though


The only "Broken" thing I can think of off hand now is Sentinal, with the change to sentry watch so it doesn't kill, this ability could do with being changed in the same way, you simply cannot use it on encounter where mobs have a Melee AOE because of the absorb component. Just a straight up melee damage reduction on 1 target in your group would be nice and take away the guardian absorbing the damage.

I cast Battle Cry for years before I pulled. Just last night I stated with Hunker Dow since I have the 10% damage reduction Heroic AA for that. It helped a ton more with a flat damage reduction than battle cry even though I have the 15% Crit Mit on it. I wasn't getting criticals anyway in the x2 with my crit mit so Hunker Down was the better choice until the debuffs got applied.
With my current reuse I can have HD or Battle Cry up all the time and throw in stone skins as needed.
I don't think it's really broken but I sure would like a faster casting speed on Tower of Stone. I use Perfect Counter and Last man Standing all the time but I shun ToS since by the time I notice a spike and cast it, I'm either clear through healing or dead.

As a raid MT, still really annoyed with my dps vs. my offtank. I'm usually hovering between 40-50k unless I go DW, then I'm only in the 50-60k range, except a few fights I've spiked in the 70's. Our SK is a beast, has around the same gear as me, and can parse while using a shield consistently in the 70-100k range, and some aoe fights I've seen him well over 100k. Would be nice to have a slight increase in dps while using a shield. We sacrafice too much survivability while DW.

Just doesn't make since that one tank class has to DW weapons in order to do 20-40k less dps than an SK using a shield.

Thanks for all the replies. Sounds like were doing ok as a class. Only a few issues and the everpresent DPS imbalance.
If it wasn't for the over abundance of Tanks and the extreme usefulness of my dirge on our raids, I might get out and play my Guardian more.

Guardians need more DPS/hate generation, especially in defensive with a shield.
The avoidance changes that went live with the current expansion are hurting guardians, berserkers, and to a lesser extent, bruisers more than the remaining tanks.
We don't have anything even remotely close to the level of strikethrough of monks. Unlike crusaders, our DPS/hate generation doesn't derive significantly, let alone primarily, from spells, which aren't affected at all by the massive amount of uncontested block and parry raid mobs sport these days. Bruisers are able to dual-wield while in a defensive setup; warriors, conversely, get nothing to compensate for the loss of dual-wield DPS/hate generation when we go into full tank mode.
Hence, we are left struggling when high-DPS mages and scouts go all-out, especially in the earlier stages of a boss fight, vs any kind of trash, or after hate wipes. Experienced Insight is certainly a great help, when available, but it frequently isn't enough.
If giving guardians the equivalent of Knight's Stance while in defensive isn't in the cards, then how about a hate proc tied to defensive stance with a shield requirement that triggers off every melee attack (auto-attack and CA's alike), generating 30% of the damage of the attack as pure hate.
Another option would be a lower reuse on Experienced Insight.
Yet another option: Add a massive pure hate component to Decimate, Slam, or the like.

Sentry Watch should have its ranged increased. 20m just doesn't cut it when you're tanking giants and the like; the people you want to protect are frequently out of range, trying to minimize incoming AE damage.
I would propose upping the range to 50m. It isn't as though the ability in itself is overpowered when it works, so I don't see any issues there.
Sentinel should be changed in such a fashion that it doesn't transfer damage to the guardian but solely affords damage reduction to the target. Currently, the ability is able to outright kill a guardian who uses it on raids (the damage transferred bypasses mitigation).
Our HP buffs have been marginalized by the massive global HP pool boost in the current expansion. Thus, all our HP and Stamina buffs should be doubled, or they should be converted to straight percentage-based HP bonuses. The same goes for a lot of priest HP buffs, by the way.

35 meters should be enough, and yes its a specific issue with large models like giants.

Yup, guards are more than fine now.
Dont suppose you could whine on behalf of other classes that you screwed over in the clamour to be the only tank of choice?

Nuloh wrote:

Your post count of two since 2007 is astonishing. Four years, and this is what you finally chose to post?
At any rate, I'd love to see you explain who was screwed over. While we got decent AA abilities this expansion, so did the other fighters, so nothing much changed, balancewise, except paladins and brawlers becoming even more overpowered.
Guardian remain the weakest fighter class in the game, as we have been since the end of RoK when the second mythical nerf hit home. The fact that we are able to tank doesn't change that, 1) we don't have significantly more survivability than any other fighter class and we have less than some, 2) our stoneskin abilities aren't necessary to do any content in the game, 3) we have the lowest DPS of all fighter classes, and 4) we have the worst excuse for utility of all fighter classes.
I would love for every raid instance to have one single named mob that required guardian stoneskins--you know, a few AE's that hit for 300K+ damage and don't allow you to joust; that kind of thing. If guardians were actually necessary for raiding, all the shortcomings of the class would be more than acceptable.
Or, as an alternative, if all fighters are supposed to be able to tank the toughest content, I would also be perfectly happy with having the best single-target DPS of all fighters while dual-wielding, the best hate generation of all fighters when swapping to a shield, tweaks to some of our abilities (e.g., extended range of Sentry Watch, no damage transferral from Sentinel, longer duration of Guardian Sphere stoneskin procs, Unyielding Will changed to a maintained buff), as well as a potent raid-wide buff (e.g., 2500 HP, 10 Crit Mit, 10 Crit Chance).
That is to say, either we get a niche that is ours and ours alone, or we just share the raid tank role with all the other fighters while also getting to enjoy their overpowered DPS, survivability, buffs, and utility packages.
Or, I guess, we continue as we have the last two and a half years and remain the red-headed stepchild of the archetype.

Unshakable grip, dov endline,, can't be cast while running, can we get this changed to be like all our other buffs.. and castable while moving.

Karnos@Guk wrote:

New guardians disregard everything in this post, if you have questions about the guardians potential fill free to PM me. We have an awesome class.