Coldain Prayer Shawl Quest

Gwyneth@Najena wrote:

As has been said by others both in this thread and in other places, there is no possible way the current crafting mechanics can provide a player with a challenge.
If you want challenge, something new needs to be devised. The cloak quest was a challenge, but that is because the whole thing was literally one whole timesink. PotP was sort of a challenge, because it required you to get other players to help out - something crafters are not used to doing.
As I have said in this thread, I would be happy with a fairly generic tradeskill quest to reward the 8th shawl, which is the item from EQ. Some timesinks, some Fed-Ex, maybe a combine or two, what ever. With in that, I am sure Domino will be able to make it interesting, as she did with the cloak quests via the NPC text.
After that, as I have said, I want a quest with a real challenge. Something that most players will just turn their nose up. Something that dedicated crafters, the crazy ones, will look at and go "hell yeah!". Something that is on par with spending weeks and weeks wiping to Nexona, and something that rewards with an item that is appropriate for that effort.
Yes, it will require timesinks, because that is the only way to make quests that last more than a few minutes in this game. Yes, it will require help from other people, because this is a social game (I fully expect the HQ to require help from others). Based on what you have said in this thread, it will not be something you want to do, and that is fine.
Not all content is for all players. There are players like me, some of whom have posted in this thread, that would LOVE a tradeskill based quest that is as long and hard as what I have described. It may not be you, but thats fine, there is other content out there for you.

Pervis wrote:

Hard is subjective - There were many complaints over the crafting timeline from SF taking 10 days to complete. No one really complained about the fail events in crafting from Que'ule which I thought was great. Nope - the biggest complaint was how it took 10 days to get faction in all the crafting areas. Most said it was just too 'hard' to try to find that type of time every day when they had their time busy with other things.
What you want, may not be. Alienating players for only "dedicated" crafters to complete the Coldain HQ isn't going to happen no matter how much you wish it so.
Domino I'm sure will do her best. I'm sure she will come up with something interesting and "epic" with heroic crafting adventures.
If what she designs is NOT up to your standards of a "long and hard" HQ epic heroic quest as you have described - well, then you don't have to do that quest. It's your choice. You are not going to be designing the Coldain HQ, and Domino has already hinted that much of your ideas (mythicals, leveling up different tradeskills on one character, etc) aren't going to happen. Guess you'll find out in February.

Alvane@Unrest wrote:

I had to comment on this one . . .
The wait time was the frustration on this one, at least for me. Some people have more time on certain days and or times than others. Having a few hours and only being able to play at something you need/want to achieve for 5 minutes was an artificial timesink I hope we dont repeat. I would much rather have had a single quest to do daily which rewarded high faction(2000-2500) and a repeatable without a lockout you could do all day and night long if you wanted for less faction (500-750). Most other things are this way - ie, look to Mara, Rok, etc.
I do hope she will consider these in future implementations though overall I think SF was beautifully done for crafters. The questlines gave us about 3 levels or so of tradeskill experience in a way other than sitting in front of the crafting station grinding away while watching tv so big thumbs up on that one

Artemiz@The Bazaar wrote:

Ya.... personally I really liked the SF timeline. I also had a blast with the TSO crafting timelines. I had no idea peeps thought SF was a timesink. And TSO was fun taking low level adventuring crafters through the Soko quests and the faction stuff. I still have one more to work through it, and I suspect she'll be in her 30s when she does hit RoK crafting timeline. Right now she's in her 50s.
I had 6 of my level 90 crafters work through it all in less than 4 weeks which to me was fast for 6 characters. Because the actual quests were quick it took like less than 15-30 min. But then I also didn't run characters around every single day, neither. Some peeps did it daily, I skipped a day or two every so often. I just never thought it was a big deal.
I guess it boils down to how anxious one is to complete the timeline. I knew I would sooner or later, so wasn't anxious about doing it daily to git 'er done.

Alvane@Unrest wrote:

^^nail on the head . . . people that want the disco tend to be the most frustrated by the time sink restrictions I think.

I was disappointed with the high-faction daily quest only because once I was done that was my fun tradeskill stuff for the day. I wouldn't have minded repeatable quests that rewarded less faction but kept you active.

Alvane@Unrest wrote:

And yet solo questing remains.
Its not a content thing that alienates players, its players that decide they are going to be alienated by a piece of content that was not intended for their playstyle. Any piece of content added to this game will have a group of players that do not want to do it, it is up to players to decide where that content is for them. It doesn't matter what it is, this is a constant and a guarentee.
It is entierly possible that this quest, if implemented as I have suggested, would not be content for you. If you are using the prospect of alienating players as a reason to not have it implemented, then chances are if it were does, it would not be content for you.

Pervis wrote:

Of course, solo questing is part of EQ2. So are group adventures, and multi-group adventures. Some quests do require grouping. So, I'm not sure what you are stating.
Alienation begins by design. A design can pull together people or can purposely leave out people from partaking. It's the latter that alienates people. By designing quest(s) that do not include people leaves them with no choice. They cannot particpate due to design.
And that's exactly what you are wanting - which isn't going to happen, anyway.
Pervis wrote:
I want a quest with a real challenge. Something that most players will just turn their nose up. Something that dedicated crafters, the crazy ones, will look at and go "hell yeah!".
So by design you do want players to be alienated. Your words say it over and over. Deny it if you wish.
At this point, there is nothing further to add for the Coldain Prayer Shawl HQ that Domino is designing. I am looking forward to experiencing the first ever crafting HQ for all my 7 characters with the expansion to be released in February.

Alvane@Unrest wrote:

Challenging quests are also a part of EQ2.
So are long quests, so are timesinks.

I can't wait for this...its long overdue for a tradeskill HQ, and to those too 'busy' to level up a crafter? So what? There are some too 'busy' to level up an adventurer, who prefer to tradeskill instead. I think it's a fantastic idea.

To those of you complaining about not having a desire to level up a tradeskiller? Too bad, so sad. You won't be getting the coldain shawl.

Next!

Pervis wrote:

I'm just thinking. What your asking for is something on-par difficulty with raiding, except without the raid aspect of it. The quest and reward are suppose to be Heritage Quest level. Group content. Not even particularly challenging group content.
Unless this shawl works as a portable crafting station and eats commons to poop rares it isn't worth what your asking for. While I think there is room for raid style crafting, this isn't where it should start. I think this is where group crafting should get further refined because this is a heritage quest. While I realize that there are a few heritage quests that can be soloed, if you look at the whole list of them you quickly realize that they are intended for groups of people to do them, not a single individual no matter how gifted they are.
As for group content being tedius and booring, it shouldn't be. You don't hear adventurers complaining the instances are tedius and booring. Why? Because adventurers can't do a group instance by themselves no matter how patient they are. Crafters normally do group content solo because you can. If you couldn't do it with less than 3 people I think everybody would enjoy them more because with an actual group the crafting instances go by quickly and being able to chat with your fellow crafters takes away a huge amount of the tedium. Doing one with 6 people is actually fun. Too bad the rewards are very small for such a group.
Basically the greatest failure of group crafting in my opinon is that it can be soloed. Because you don't have to share the rewards that way or put any effort into putting together a group people willingly subject themselves to doing it alone. Combined with the inately booring and time consuming crafting system we do have and it becomes isolationist torture for one. If you couldn't solo these and you always had to have 3 or more people to start an instance, I think they would actually be more popular because people would have higher quality experiences with them and more people would be willing to do them when someone asks.

Meirril wrote:

Close, kind of.
I want the Heritage Quest in game, added as a crafting Heritage Quest that the average max level crafter will do, and the dedicated crafter will do many times (and WANT to do many times). After that though, I want something harder, something more challenging, something that fewer people will try to do, and something that not everyone that starts will finish.
I don't want there to NOT be a crafting HQ that is on par with adventure HQs in terms of length, difficulty and 'other' requirements, I just want that AND something harder.
As far as what the reward would actually be, thats less important than the effort required to get there. It needs to be something, but what exactly it could be is less important than the fact that it exists. If Domino were to say she may think about adding in an aspect to this quest post-completion, I would then think about exactly how I would do a reward for it. I have general ideas that need refining, but have far too much on right now to worry about refining them if there is nothing in game to warrent them even being added.