Coldain Prayer Shawl Quest

Now that the COldain Prayer Shawl Quest will be a crating quest - PLEASE DO NOT MAKE IT REQUIRE COMMISSION CRAFTING.
If you have all 9 crafting classes - let the components be HEIRLOOM -

I very much believe it should be both, the same way the tradeskill epic pieces are now. Heirloom does not help those folks who don't have any crafters, so commission should definitely be an option.

Eveningsong wrote:

As an option but players who have all 9 crafter classes should not be forced into commission crafting the way the epic was when it first went in.

I didn't say that, I said that it should be like it is now, both heirloom and commissionable.

So, do I understand from what you are requesting, that this "Coldain Prayer Shawl" quest will definately in the new expansion coming this winter?
This sounds like the same type of quest as the RoK series which culminated with the Epic Tradeskill. I have 7 crafters and all have been through that series at different times. I have one more who is currently level 49 armorer who will go through it, too. I really don't see the problem of doing the epic.
As for the SF crafting timeline, 6 of my crafters have already been through it with no problems. And I'm sure my 7th will do it too.
I don't know what this "Coldain Prayer Shawl" quest is all about or how involved. If it's from EQ which I've been told it is, I'm sure it will be revamped to fit the confines of EQ2 and this new expansion pack coming this winter.
However, I have not seen anything that officially states, that this particular quest is definately part of this new expansion pack.

Alvane@Unrest wrote:

It has already been announced as a tradeskill heritage quest in the expansion.
Eveningsong wrote:

And I am agreeing with you. But if you remember the tradeskill epic was FORCED COMMISSIONING when it first went in. It was not changed until well over 1 year later. I don't want to see this pattern repeated

Domino presented it at Fan Faire, but without any details other than it would be in the new expansion.

Maroger wrote:

It was not changed for over a year because there was nothing to change it to.
It was changed the first update after the heirloom tag was introduced to the game, which in reality is the earliest it could have been done.

YES! Thank you, Domino! I was so happy to hear this was tradeskill only. Yes, it involved adventuring in EQ1, but only because everything there did. The earring was an accomplishment, but *this* was THE tradeskill epic. Thank you so much for recognizing that.

And I second the request that this be both commissionable *and* Heirloom. I don't want to see the type of gouging I saw for months of people trying to finish and being charged 5plat + a combine.
I still see it sometimes and it makes me really happy when I can send a tell like "Don't pay that price. I have all 9. I'll help you out for free", since I was finally able to finish my epics once the pieces were made Heirloom.

I still hope the final shawl requires some adventuring part.
If not then this tradeskill heritage quest would be way to simple to complete and not much of an accomplishment.
There is only so much you are able to do to make the current crafting system challenging.
I honestly truly enjoyed tradeskill quests like the wyrmslayer HQ.
I know the tradeskill society has this group that is anti anything to do with adventuring but I feel this quest needs to have something seperating it even if it does not involve killing high level npcs. If this quest at least involved exploring the new velious contested dungeons for rare spawning harvesting nodes needed for each tradeskill class and maybe included a new group tradeskill instance it might be a bit more challenging then what current tradeskill quest entail. I was barely a level 84 tailor when I finished the shadows tradeskill quest I SF. The combination nor quest was truly challenging.

Gungo wrote:

Why does it have to be way too simple and not an accomplishment just because it's crafting-related? There are plenty of ways to make it more of an effort and thus more of an accomplishment without involving adventuring -- the crafting epic is a perfect example of that, it takes a lot more work than shadows of the betrayed (which is mainly just waiting around).
Factions played a huge role in EQ1 velious, I hope they play a good role in EQ2. Factions would be another perfect way of adding complexity / epicness to the prayer shawl questline (and I'm not talking grind-grind-grind like Bathezid faction, but rather quest for a TS coldain faction for example).

Pervis wrote:

Thank you Pervis. This is completely correct. The problem wasn't possible to fix till heirloom existed. Now, it is fixed.
No comment yet on whether the shawl will require multiple pieces from multiple crafters, but if it does, I expect it will work the same way the earring does now.

Barx@Antonia Bayle wrote:

As I said before adventuring doesnt mean killing high level npcs.
But just being a crafter shouldnt be the hardest part of doing a crafting type heritage quest.
The coldain prayer shawl was an acccomplishment in eq1.
I would be fine if the coldain prayer shawl required rare harvestable heriloom nodes located throughout the new contested dungeon in velious that you can only see on the quest.
I would be fine if the new coldain prayer shawl also paid homage to old school crafting and required Mats by different crafters throughout the shawl combinations.
I would be fine if the shawl also required at least 3 different tradeskill factions leveled independantly each giving a recipe for the next step of the shawl.
I would be fine if the shawl also had a group tradeskill instance.
But lets be honest it will not be any of that. The hardest part of doing these tradeskill quests is being a tradeskiller in the first place. the effort required to complete these quests are minimal.

Gungo wrote:

Just to point out, the hardest part of doing the EQ1 shawl quests was leveling up the 8 different tradeskills needed for the shawl. Compaired to that, all of the different camps for the various materials was quite easy.
I like the idea of earning the various recipes. Maybe not a tradeskill faction grind but a series of quests with some repeatables? Hopefully nothing like the faction grind for Rime. That was just tedius and booring.

As noted elsewhere, the requirements in EQ1 don't really translate into EQ2.

• EQ1 tradeskills are skills that can be levelled up; EQ2 tradeskills are a profession on their own and you can be only one
• EQ1 tradeskills required adventuring to get dropped rare components; EQ2 tradeskills do not
• EQ1 coldain were in a specific stage of battle relative to the giants; EQ2 coldain may have made or lost progress and not be in quite the same relation
• EQ1 shawl had adventuring rewards, since tradeskill classes did not exist in EQ1; in EQ2 it does not make a lot of sense to gain adventuring stat rewards by tradeskilling
• Main challenge of the EQ1 quest was a huge effort to raise your skills (nearest equivalent in EQ2 would be raising your tradeskill level to 90, which could be a base requirement in EQ2 to even start the quest). Also forcing everyone to raise harvesting skills for the quest might be an EQ2 equivalent.
  
• Second challenge of the EQ1 quest was getting tons of annoying dropped components from adventure zones, which isn't entirely applicable in EQ2 and in some cases zones or mobs may not even exist as they did 500 years ago.
• Third challenge was killing lots of things, again not necessarily appropriate in EQ2.

And based on a reading of the quest writeup on EQ Traders this is the basic story:

1. kill giants to prove your support of the Coldain.
2. kill more giants to refill the Dain's trophy display.
3. humble yourself by cooking and serving food to various Coldain.
4. create a vial of velium vapors (escape potion) to rescue a Coldain from a giant ambush (high chance of you getting stomped by giant death squads on this step)
5. Rexx Frostweaver shows you how to make a silk prayer shawl. (Quite a lot of farming drops.)
6. Betti Frostweaver shows you how to embroider a fancy pattern on the shawl. (More farming.)
7. several more Coldain and a prayer to Brell show you how to etch and case a rune to Brell and tailor it to the shawl.
8. The Dain (Coldain leader), seemingly somewhat randomly, asks you to make a set of imbued royal velium armor and take it to General Bragmur who is heading to negotiate for help from the gnomish pirates. Meet the General, give him armor, escort him to the gnomes (fighting off several waves of nasty giants), arrange the treaty. Brell appears and blesses your shawl.

I won't go into any further detail yet about what the EQ2 version of the quest will be, but it is likely to be rather different in may (or most) aspects since the games are very different, and even the original story isn't a particularly coherent or compelling narrative.

DominoDev wrote:

If you really want to give this quest the same epic feeling as it had in EQ, make it so each class needs a specific level 90, no-trade (aka, not heirloom), non-commission-able item from a different tradeskill class as itself.
That would be absolutely epic, and would warrant a reward that is equally epic.
Edit: make it so it requires one level 90, non-commission-able, no-trade item from each tradeskill class and make the reward mythical, with server spam and all.

DominoDev wrote:

From doing the eq1 quest myself. The main challenge of the EQ1 quest was getting tons of annoying dropped components from adventure zones, which isn't entirely applicable in EQ2 and in some cases zones or mobs may not even exist as they did 500 years ago. This challenge combined with the 50% failure rate on combines, made this quest more a pita. Furthermore the final shawl required a raid level encounter, which I admit is not entirely applicable in eq2 and the closest in eq2 to this for tradeskills is a tradeskill group instance.
Want to make the shawl a true crafter reward require the tradeskiller doing this quest to be max level tradeskiller and 450 adorner and 450 tinkerer. Here would be my steps.
*Gain faction with "The Coldain tradeskill society" to obtain quest

1. Commission weaponsmith and armourer and deliver supplies to coldain.
2. Commision Provisioner and jeweler and deliver supplies.
3. Commision Alchemist and Sage and deliver to Coldain from a giant ambush (high chance of you getting stomped by giant death squads on this step, if you dont evac the hunting party in time)
4. Commision Carpenter and woodworker to create traps and place them in outdoor zone, trap crystalline spider obtain silk.
5. Locate and Gather harvests from regular harvest nodes (rare pelt and another rare), commission tailor to make a silk prayer shawl.
6. Locate and Gather harvests from special quest only nodes located in contested zone (heirloom), commission sage to make a fancy pattern on the shawl.
7. Obtain a prayer to Brell to bless shawl(400-450 adorning side quest)
8. Tradeskill instance. Additional quest only step requires 450 tinkering (non-commisionable) after which Brell appears and blesses your shawl.

Tinkering and adorning are ALSO tradeskills all crafters can get and should be required and non-commissionable for the shawl, IMHO. The closet equivilant to eq1 is raising all 3.
This means the quest should require
max tradeskill faction
400-450 tinker
400-450 adorner
lvl 90 crafter
Harvesting
Delivery quests
exploring outdoor zones and trapping spiders
Velious based Tradeskill instance

I dont object to tinkering and transmuting being apart of the questline and as a matter of fact I would really like to see this. However, I don't want them to be required on every character. Its an expensive and tedious task to require both skills on every toon that wants to do the quest (in my case and many others, 9 different crafters). I understand why some would want this but I really hope if the 2 sub-crafts are used they will be heirloom/commisionable.

DominoDev wrote:

Side note: in EQ1 back then (and for years later), for some crafts ALL components required an adventuring drop at some point, and the drops were rare (not that the component was a "rare" in the EQ2 sense).
Raising tailoring in EQ1 was one of the most painful things because it required so many different types of hides of different qualities and only those recipes "non-trivial" would give you a -chance- at a skill-up.
EQ1 tradeskills now (including tailoring) has changed significantly with drop items being a lot more plentiful and a substantially increased number of recipes to progress your skill as well as tradeskill quests with combines specifically intended to give you skill increases for no (or little) cost.. vastly different than the massive money sink they once were.

Anestacia wrote:

Heirloom would be fine commissionable would make them pointless.