[p]1) Regarding Hate, yes we generate a heck of a lot of aggro. But playing with your casting order should help immensely. If I cast Apocalypse early in a fight I am dead. But if I lead off with debuffs/dot's, and use Apocalypse later I usually have no such issues. Follow it up with Concussive or Vulians, which I like to time for between the 3rd and 4th tick, and it cuts the aggro in half it seems like. Keep your hand on Thwart or Vulians so that if you DO pull aggro you buy yourself a few extra seconds for the tank to get aggro, as well, and you will survive the occasional peel. It's tough to not open up, but then again, no one with our potential DPS should be able to.[/p][p]2) De-agro - I always use Boon. It's not huge, but every % helps, plus hey, free power. I use COncussive strategically, but nearly every time it pops. Follow up a big crit with it to cut the aggro down. And Vulians is your friend, it follows Absolution or Apocalypse in my casts just about every time. It takes WORK, but aggro and de-aggro can largely be managed in my experience.[/p][p]3) I didn't roll a Warlock for utility, I rolled to DPS. Utility is incidental to me, but I find the Seal line quite useful in places like Unrest where everything is heroic and 2-4 levels higher than you, at least.[/p][p]4) I rarely if ever use Root these days exc ept for soloing, and I don't do much of that. But when I was grinding up to 70, I used group root. It is effective if used to mass kill blue vv and vvv mobs, which is how I view it's purpose. And for ^^^, it makes a nice backup when solo root is not up for recast. Not really seeing a problem here. Just remember that Apocalypse is the root killer, and choose what you cast with that in mind.[/p][p]5) Aftershock - love it. It doesn't give you the ooh-ahh numbers at first glance, but it costs an AA to get a 350-500 point potential proc and almost anything you cast, and which can trigger further Aftershocks. Free damage is free damage, and for the cost I find it a no-brainer. Your mileage may vary, I guess.[/p][p]6) I used just dropped gear into my 60's and took a lot of ribbing, I admit. But I find my Warlock less gear dependent than most any other class. Then when you finally get a few pieces like Grizzlefazzle (love it), it is just icing on the cake, free additional damage. Most other classes have situational gear, and I see no reason why we should be different. Our class gear is fine IMO, although I only have 3 pieces so far. [/p][p]7) Casting time is actually a de-aggro tool if you look at it right. It is a method to restrict our DPS, and for the heavy hitter spells is a must. Would I like shorter times? Of course. But I don't think we really need them, and you can always go the AA line if you feel differently.[/p][p]8) I find very few spells worthless. Boon is a must to me. Free power and a hate transfer? Beats no transfer at all. Null Caress, as previously stated, has it's uses especially on raids. The Curses may night be incredible, but they don't HURT, and do have some effect. Bind Sight and Sonic Vision are barely better than fluff spells, but every class has a bunch of **** spells or arts in their book.[/p][p]9) I admit that damage variance MIGHT be a little widespread. I would like to see the ranges tightened a bit, since it's tougher to judge aggro between a 1400 point hit and a 2500 point hit. But I really don't find it to be deal breaking.[/p][p]10) Dark Infestation is a great spell. I use it constantly, especially against the longer heroics. I find it a nice, tight addition to my DPS. Not earth shaking, but then again it's not a class defining spell. I like War Pyre myself, which crits pretty nicely.[/p][p]I think the Warlocks are doing OK. Not great, but not terrible. I bit less variance on damage and another aggro tool, whether a better transfer or another Vulians or something completely different would be nice. But overall I am doing OK and I am, with the exception of a little luck on some class pieces, not particularly well geared at all and probably of only average skill. I am very much a blue collar Warlock, and I do OK.[/p][p] [/p]
[p] Are you still on the broodlings?? Good lord man...I raided last night and they move from one mob IN AN ENCOUNTER to the next until the entire encounter is dead. After that they'll hang around ya. Do you want them to start looking for other mobs in the area after the encounter drops? I'd like to see you deal with that....do you realize how much chaos/wipes that would create?[/p][p]Haven't you noticed that NO ONE in this entire post has agreed with what you keep spouting? (other than the necro aggro issue (and they name their pets the same name as their character, so around half of their DPS is from a second source, which helps spread their aggro) Though peeps may understand your frustration with a few areas of the game, no one has wanted to see the largely game unbalancing changes you'd like to see be made come to fruition.[/p][p]I know you don't want to hear this, but IN MY OPINION the game is balanced for raid groups. Just last night I was #1 DPS in Lyceum (which is no suprise with the amount of grouped encounters) and could probably count on one hand the amount of times I pulled aggro from the tank. Mobs in a raid instance have enough HP to allow us to ease into a fight if we'd want and still put up some good numbers. This isn't the case in most instance runs (especially pick up instance groups). I could run any KoS or EoF heroic instance with the A team from our raid force and have no chance at parsing #1 (unless, like you point out, I'm willing to pull aggro away immediately, and the wizzie will prolly still beat me). I guess what I'm getting at is if we had changes implemented to balance us out in the short game (heroic instances and such), those same changes would make us WAAAY overpowered in a raid.[/p][p] [/p]
Mortred@Befallen wrote: This is my point. We're one of the only class that relies almost exclusively on other classes to control our aggro. Rangers at least get a permanent 40% self dehate buff plus useful self dehates. Yes, I think our dps is fine. I have no trouble keeping up in parses. It frustrates me that game mechanics have made us AOE fighters but have given tanks little to control AOE aggro other than a few short term buffs on longer recast timers. I would simply like to see some method of self aggro control. Be it a chance to proc a hate debuff like the scouts get, or increasing our hate transfer to something like 10%, I feel it isn't too much to ask to give us some control over our hate. Cast Saints of Norrath Blackburrow
For additional hate decrease, try these. \aITEM -695381990 -47452205:Bracelet of Thule\/a \aITEM 409831335 -764536703:Raiment of the Skywatcher\/a Respendant Scapular's Mantle - dont have the item code, but it procs a dehate and has FT on it. Adorned staff, for threat decrease. Not much i can tell you but get a better MT/MT group and work with them. If you still keep pulling aggro, you need tot ake more time and "ease" into the fight. It sucks, but wizards have the same problem, they just have lower AE dps, and its easier for a tank to lock down one mob vs a whole encounter, especially since most raid guilds have a guardian MT.
[p]I have just picked up my warlock again after leveling a Sk to 70. I have to agree with a couple of the OP comments.[/p][p] 1. Controlling hate in a group can be a challenge, but then I don't give a hoot what my parsing rank is, all I care about is surviving the encounter. Not everyone gets to raid or have regular groups and a lot of us have to go with pick up groups. It is a real challenge. I think increasing the hate deaggro from 4% to something in the teens would be perfect.[/p][p]2. We need FD or evac. We seem to be one of the few classes that don't get either one. (Hell, SK get both). I see this as more important from a soloing perspective. I seem to take a lot of room to solo, and if I happen to pull an unwanted MOB, more times that not I end up dead. At least wth FD or evac, I have an escape. Right now, no escape, except to die or run.[/p][p] 3. I find that soloing I have too many interrupt to be effective. It drives me crazy to be right at the end of a 4 sec cast and get interrupted. Nevermind if the root breaks at the beginning of a cast, many times I am dead before I finish casting.[/p][p] Compared to SK, I like SK better, more abilities, more likely to survive an encounter. I do like the warlock, but think it needs a few changes.[/p]
Actually, I'm pretty sure that the broodlings will switch to different targets within the same encounter. I've seen it happen plenty of times. They just come back to you once the encounter is dead, though, but you can always stay amidst the fray if it's not too dangerous. As for cast times on things like netherous realm... yes, it's true that it takes a while for this spell to go off, but aura of nihility has a 1 second cast time, and it is our highest-dps single-target spell, excluding broodlings and netherlord (see the analysis done here). Even without precasting, netherous realm still has a higher single-target dps efficiency than void distortion, our largest nuke. Roots... if you buffed root, we'd be godlike. We can already kill far more things than most other classes besides wizards simply because of our roots. They're not going to buff root. Curse of Void is moderately useless, but I don't think we give it enough credit. -88 str/int is quite a bit, even at 70. Consider also that we're not a debuffing class. Group see invis could definitely lose sonic vision, but it's not game-breaking. Spell damage range will probably never change, but I wouldn't mind seeing it narrowed down a bit. Maybe it's intentional to add a bit of volatility to the equation. I saved best for last: hate. Hate is definitely an issue for many people, because not every guild has the "ideal" aggro setup simply because of how rare some classes are, such as bards/enchanters, and sorcs in general are VERY co-dependant in this realm. Once the setup has been reached, it's clear sailing, no problem, but until then, it's a pain. A big pain. It makes it very difficult for lesser guilds to get off the ground, no matter how skilled the players are. I play with some of the smartest and most skilled people in the game as far as I know, but that's not going to make our tank hold aggro, which produces real-life aggro for everyone trying to raid. In my opinion, hate is WAY too big of an issue in this game. Sorcs and brawlers have to depend on not 1, not 2, but 3-4 other classes to do their optimal dps. This reminds me of the early (and crappy) co-dependancy of tradeskilling. TO FIX IT: I'd reccomend focusing on beneficial buffs for bards/enchanters while increasing natural tank aggro. Buffs should NOT account for >50% of a tank's aggro. That doesn't make any sense. Some degree of dependancy is definitely necessary, but at the level that it's at right now, it's quite game-breaking for anyone outside of a high-profile guild. Now that I've thought all this up, I think I'll eventually go post this in the combat forum, but not right now. Not trying to brag, but I think I have just hit the nail on the head with regard to aggro problems and their implications. Just FYI, the reason it seems like you produce more aggro is b/c you are aoe-based. Concentrate on a few things, such as your swarm pets, your dots, and your aura, throwing in aoe's occasionally unless your aggro setup is perfect. If you're trying to aoe a lot, you'll almost assuredly pull aggro, because most of a tank's aggro is focused on the raid's target, and rightly so (though good tanks will throw out single-target taunts on other encounter members occasionally if there is a seperate MA). Also, a good (but not wise) wizard can pull aggro just as fast as a warlock. That's all for now.
[p] [/p][p]My wish list: [/p][ul][li]Peace in Norrath[/li][li]NPC selling Nil Crystals[/li][li]Nil Crystals labeled as ammo, since they actually are ammo for some of my spells, and hence being able to use ammo slot for the crystals[/li][/ul][p]As for aggro/hate: I accept it and yes its MUCH better since EoF launch, but why not grow the nuts and spread it to all classes? I do feel that some classes are easy-mode dps and I dont understand why. Sorcs have to be more aware of balancing dps vs aggro than certain other classes and still the certain other classes can easily do so called t1 dps. I understand that blessed high enders who raid in absolute perfect conditions for sorcs forget this and calls us mortals whiners and nubs but the fact remains: far from all raids can pamper their sorcs with the bestest of raid setups. We are much more dependant on group/raid set-up than certain other dps classes. [/p][p]Solution: make all dps classes highly dependant on group/raid set-up. Why not?[/p][p]Muwhahahah! Wouldnt it be funny to watch?[/p][p] [/p]
also, please make our deaggro's actually work! I was in a group last night... and both my deaggros got resisted :/... then i died...! The one is master 1, other of course is no spell level.
Ruut Li wrote: All are group dependent. An assassin, save maybe using decap, can't parse 2k on a raid without a dirge or illusionist. Yes they are easy mode dps, but the key difference between them and us is range. We can nuke to our hearts content, and so long as we don't pull aggro its sustained dps and we don't need a healer. 1 AE and that assassin is dead unless his healer is on the ball. Its all a trade off, and what we have right now is as close to balanced as this game is going to get. Enjoy it, don't push your luck.
[p]As someone who has a tank and a DPS, this seems to be the biggest issue with aggro. Tanks need their aggro increased, esp AOE taunts. I should not have to depend on getting "certain" classes to be able to keep aggro. As a warlock, if we pull a group of mobs, I will eventually pull the one of the mobs before we finish the fight. [/p][p]If we are truly a AOE class, then give us the ability to AOE, or at least the same ability the single target classes have.[/p]
[p]actually I have never thought of scout dps as easy mode dps lol. I was thinking of summoners . I understand that every dps class needs pampering to do good dps, but I'd like summoners to get more aggro problems so they get off them high horses JOKE![/p][p] [/p][p]Just give me npc who sells nil crystals np.[/p]
Ruut Li wrote: Well, not to mention Necro's got a 100% feign death. I don't see why mages need a feign death anyway, but if there's one mage class deserving something like fd then it's Warlocks (unless they change the while AE-aggro situation). As for the NPC selling crystals, nice idea, but then, why would a Warlock have to pay money to cast spells? Just get rid of the crystals.
Managing hate isn't that big of a deal once your character has aged enough to have the appropriate detaunt tools. With all the items I have that proc Detaunts, the spells, and the external help from other classes I just don't see it as much of an issue anymore. Yes, it *is* difficult while your leveling or building up your gear. But really, I wouldn't want it to be any easier.
[p]Yeah, please help Jorella, and by extension Asmo, in our alliance control aggro!![/p][p]From a necro's perspective, looking in....I think Warlocks get somewhat a shaft. (This is my totally uninformed opinion on Warlocks, btw) I see the DPS I do as a necro, and I see another necro in our alliance. I generally run the parser for our alliance, and I see the Warlocks and how they do. [/p][p]Now, granted, Jorella pulls aggro from the 'nontanked' encounter mob generally, but since that is kind of how the Warlock doing damage thing is supposed to work (at least in my mind), that seems kind of like the shaft.[/p][p]Until then, Manratten will continue to rule over Jorella!![/p]
[p]The reason Im asking for a vandor to sell crystals is that SOE is so freakin fond of their idea of the crystals so they will never ever get rid of it. [/p][p]Hence Im asking for a compromise: [/p][p]1. we can still get crystals for free by farming them.[/p][p]and[/p][p]2. Crystal vendor in mage towers. If you, for example, are a raiding lock, lvl 70, got the cash and got better things to do than kill lowbie mobs you should have the choice to spend money on crystals instead of time. [/p]
Ruut Li wrote: I used to complain about this a lot, but I find that I don't have any issues with crystals myself. But this does not seem unreasonable to me......
[p]Changes? Faster cast on our debuffs, not because they need to be cast faster, but purely so that harvesting crystals would not be such a pain in the ***.[/p][p]I can't really think of much else. Something equivilant to evac/coth would be novel, but trivial. Sorceror teleports made up for it somewhat.[/p][p]All I can say is Hastening is THE best EoF end ability for mages. It's absolutely incredible, and is more than a match for manaburn/lifeburn because you can put such a tremendous amount of damage in such a short amoutn of time, single or group. I can't stress how awesome it is. I don't even have aftershocks (main is raid guardian, although playing Warlock more now. Have 80 AAs ), and still can be top 3 on parses with Assassin, Wizards, Conjurors, Necros and Rangers.[/p][p]Soloing is fun and easy, whether it be soloing named or just blasting solo mobs. Warlock is a fun class again, and very, very powerful in skilled hands for raiding.[/p]
I'll only weigh in on a couple points, First regarding hate. I pretty much raid exclusivly these days and don't do much heroic single group content. But, as a warlock, I generally hate doing single group stuff without a pally for a tank. As a raid geared player with a raid mentality a zerker wearing xegonite and adept 3 taunts and CAs is just not gonna leave me feeling happy very often. At the very least, make freinds with a good shaman or druid that will do their best to keep you alive because you are going to get agro on AE encounters. Some might not think its fair, but thats just how it is. For raids, yes we need some help with agro. Sorcerers NEED a troubador, a guardian, or a Pally to do their best dps. If you have at least one of those 3 to help you and still can't go all out, imho the problem doesn't lie with you or with the class, but with your tanks ability to generate agro and maybe they should seek advice. Regarding utility, we have plenty. Most people just don't appreciate what we have. Seal is a wicked nice buff for raiding and landing spells on orange mobs, Grasp is a nice dps boost for scouts, Boon is a nice power return for the tank and for you and I could care less about the 4% transfer. I would prefer if they removed that and upped the power amount since thats the reason I cast it in the first place. Nihilistics, bonus dmg for tank, can't complain. Pillage is nice on long fights if you have the master and keep it cycled starting early. Regarding EoF AA's. Sure, our end line abilities are less flashy than some of the others. Manaburn, Lifeburn, Time Compression, Illusory Arm are all agruably better than Focused casting and defintly better than Aftershocks. But its in the basic trees that we got the huge boost. Explosives line is a substantial dmg increase on AE spells, and Hastenings lines is significant boost to single target spells. Most of the other classes got nice end abilties and total garbage in the trees, we got wicked good trees, and decent end line abilities. In a properly managed setup, with complimentary buffs, warlocks are one of the best, if not the best, DPS classes around when played properly. Imho, its tough to complain about that.
