Terron@Splitpaw wrote: I can't think of any imbue recipes that have a primary component that took 20 fuel to make. Then again, I'm not really looking.
DominoDev wrote: One idea would be to add rare loam to bush nodes while still keeping the rare roots too. That way you could tweak the drop rate according to demand. For T8 it might be a good idea to have a 90/10 (or even 100/0) drop rate in favor of loam but as more and more people get their Adept IIIs, it could swing to 50/50 and eventually to 10/90.
I don't think this is a problem with drop rates. Right now on Oasis there is roughly the same number of silicate loams, incarnadine, and other rares like fire emerald being sold on broker. The problem is that Loams have twice as many classes that need huge quantities of these rares (this expansion roughly 30 per toon). Right now incarnadines are selling for a whopping 20g per rare..and loams from the same node are 3.5pp+. I can't help but think there is a serious problem here. Don't get me wrong..I've made a lovely set of incarnadine armor for my troub, a weapon here or there, and all the furniture I could ever want for my house. But it's to the point where I go out harvesting for loams needed for my scout and fighter class and get an incarnadine and there is absolutely nothing left to use that incarnadine on! So I waste an hour of harvesting time to come up with an incarnadine I don't need and because everyone else out there is just like me (they don't need it) it's worthless on broker. Implementing inks would fix this problem..or assign a group to use incarnadine to use for their spell rares.
The solution to all these problems, obviously, is to make two new kinds of harvests, as listed below. Common Harvest Name - Harvest Picture - Node Type - Bushes, roots, wood, hard ore, soft ore, fish, trees, falls from the sky, gets mailed to you, etc. Used By- Provisioners, carpenters, woodworkers, alchemists, sages, jewelers, armorers, weaponsmiths, and tailors. Makes - Food, drinks, boxes, furniture, arrows,P bows, totems, potions, poisons, spell upgrades, jewelry, weapons, armor, hats, and fancy RP dresses that nobody wants. Note that all kinds of crafters can make all the listed items, and they all use the same amount of the same type of fuel to make the same item. Rare Harvest Name - Rare Picture- Node Type - Bushes, roots, wood, hard ore, soft ore, fish, trees, falls from the sky, gets mailed to you, etc. Used By - Provisioners, carpenters, woodworkers, alchemists, sages, jewelers, armorers, weaponsmiths, and tailors. Makes - Rare food, rare drinks, rare boxes, rare furniture, rare arrows, rare bows, rare totems, rare potions, rare poisons, rare spell upgrades, rare jewelry, rare weapons, rare armor, rare hats, and rare fancy RP dresses that nobody wants. Note that all kinds of crafters can make all the listed items, and they all use the same amount of the same type of fuel to make the same items. These new harvests would replace all other harvests, past, present, and future in all recipes. This solution makes a truly fair crafting system where everyone has the same cost to make anything, never has to interface with other crafters, harvesters, or customers, and never has to worry about people gouging each other for anything. Fun!
refresh my memory. Loam is used for both Fighter AND Scout spells, right? Why not just bring back ink and change the scout spells to use ink instead of the loam? This will make the demand for loam go down and stabalize their prices on the market.
Cusashorn wrote: That would have the effect of having scouts pay 10 fuel more than the lowest of the 3 rares on the market. This would have something of a ballancing effect but not enough to ensure true ballance in pricing. I was thinking it would be better to have equal avaibility to all 3 classes with the 10 fuel acting as a deterent to using the ink instead of the correct raw.
The more I think about the idea the more I like it. That is being able to make ink from any spell rare and substitute it in place of the rare. It would require the invention of new inks for T7 and T8 and thus require all adept III recipes in those tiers to be modified to accept it as a substitute.
as long as any scholar could make the ink sure. I don't want to have to depend on another person for my stuff. Or how about an NPC alchemist, you give him the rare and cost of fuel, he gives you the ink. I don't want to pay someone, or try and find someone LFW to make the ink.
I like the idea of having all scholars able to make an ink, which could be used as a substitute for a rare in an Adept III. The two advantages this has is that it helps relieve the pressure on loams and also relieves the pressure on dusts. Right now, if you want dusts for the mastercrafted poisons/potions, you need to take a wild guess which Adept III will sell. That is a pretty expensive guess if you have the rare and just want dusts. I'd also love to have an option to just grind up the rare into some number of dusts without an Adept III even being involved. That is just the view of an assassin who has all the (actually increase in effectiveness from T7 Master to T8 adept III) relevant combat arts upgraded, and is dreading the inevitable increase in price of dusts like happened in T7 (yay for 27g for half a stack of one kind of poison - not counting the combine costs). Concerning the 'glut' of crafters, there were a couple reasons for this, not just this 'easy-button' crafting people complain about. A lot of new crafters popped up after KOS was introduced and the two heritage quests that required crafting came about. Having that type of quest without commission being in place was a bad idea from the get go. People who wanted to do those quests were forced to level up a crafter. My conj would never have made it above crafting the shroud for Manastone if the Bone-Clasp Girdle didn't force him to. They, in turn, dumped all their grind material on the brokers and instant deflation of value. As far as spending 20-25mins per combine, FTN. In the days of subcombines it was impossible to find somebody to make anything that wasn't their current tier. If you did find somebody, they charged a fortune for it. Otherwise, it just wasn't worth doing the combine. It wasn't a sense of realism or accomplishment, it was a sense of needless tedium that gated newer players. I have never put LFW up on any of my characters, but people searching for sages have asked me for spells completely out of the blue - and unless I'm in a group or almost finished with a quest, I have no problem doing it for them. During the days of subcombines, I would have told them they were out of luck - especially for the T4 and T5 spells I did for somebody last weekend. Some people claim it is instant gratification. I don't think it is instant gratification, but being able to provide a service to somebody who wants it in a reasonable amount of time. If it took 20-25mins per combine, that poor warlock would STILL be looking for somebody to make those 11 spells she needed.
I remember that you use to get the loam for the old poisons when you refined the raw material for the ink-reagent. (old crafting, ink was a 3 step process). However, the current adept 3 spells all produce dust as a byproduct of the final combine. While I like the idea of being able to stockpile a raw material that anyone can use for spells and get the dust from it early, I don't see this happening. I think it makes much more sense to keep the current system and you'll have to wait until you actually make a spell to get any dust instead of trying to figure out how you would get some dust now for inks but get dust later just for raw materials. Now you might argue for a system to turn loam into dust directly. It is suppose to be an alchemy rare, right? You might argue for a recipe to change 1 silicate loam into 10 smouldering dust for instance. Not that I see any real need for such a recipe (there will always be a demand for adept 3 spells in all tiers), but if you get desperate you could always resort to this.
I actually like this ‘sub-combine' stage to get an ink from any of the current rares used to make AD3s. Scholar takes a rare and appropriate fuel (candle, incense, coal) to match their crafting expertise and creates an ink and 2 dusts - the ink is used as the primary component for any AD3 of that tier, and the dusts are used as the primary components for potions/poisons. This would basically equalize the playing field of the costs for AD3's as it was before but keep alchemists from gaining a monopoly on inks since all 3 spell makers could produce them. Have the dusts produced at the ink stage instead of the AD3 stage would also allow for more versitality in raw materials and abundance in these. As a poison user/maker myself I also like the idea of being able to take the rare and break it down into more than 2 dusts without creating an AD3. The alchemist quest that was put in so that we could turn multiple dusts from a lower tier into one for a higher tier did wonders for the dust economy, but being able to get double to triple the number of dusts from one rare would be, in my opinion, a good use of the rare. Prior to the dust quest, T7 dust was purchasable for 20-30 gp per dust on my server or you could get the loam for about 1 pp, moonstones in the 50-60gp range usually. I would have gladly taken multiple dusts from the rare instead of going through making the AD3 getting 2 dusts and hoping to sell the AD3.
Wodreaux@Nektulos wrote: Actually I really like this! *walks away wondering how on earth he ended up liking somebody elses idea* No seriously, I like it.
No further objections after five days.. guess we have a winner So when will Inks be implemented Domino? *blinks innocently*
Personally, to prevent any sort of "favouritism" in the market, I think the ink recipes should be craftable by any crafter (like the mirrors). The recipe should only be made available for purchase if you complete a quest that would only be offered after reaching 20K or 30K faction with the tradeskill society (note: none of my crafters have that much faction). But.. I do like the idea of a change to the ink recipe giving the dusts rather than the adept III. Sadly, that would take more "tooling" of -all- the recipes rather than just adding an alternate ink component to all T7 and T8 adept IIIs. Besides, if ink gave dusts instead of adepts, when the majority of players (with capped characters) obtained all adepts needed (most who raid have already, is my guess), inks would end up on the broker in a downward spiral of value because they can only be used in adepts.
Rijacki wrote: Hmm no, only 3 crafters make spells. Those 3 crafters should only be the ones able to make the ink.
Sidori@Crushbone wrote: Agreed, add as a receipe to all x0 Advanced books and make all adepts require inks and not the current rares. As for the idea that inks would become common on the broker due to people needing dusts, i'm not totally convinced. I think it's more likely that dusts will become more available on the broker due to the amount of rares being converted to inks. Humm.. should this apply to both Adept III and Apprentice IV's? (using raws for non-rare inks obviously). OK: Essentials Volume x0 (1, 10, 20, 30, 40 etc) - contains ink receipe suitable for use with Apprentice IV scrolls, requires raw soft metal or gems. Advanced Volume x0 (1, 10, 20, 30, 40 etc) - contains ink receipe suitable for use with Adept III scrolls, requires rare soft metal or gems. All AppIV and AdeptIII changed to use the appropriate Inks. Loam removed from game.
Banedon@Antonia Bayle wrote: Umm...this is nuts. Your saying move dusts to inks, and make inks manufacture mandatory instead of an optional process? So your adding 10g to the cost of every t8 adept 3 for the convience of making dust without producing a spell?!? Your also adding another combine for NO GOOD REASON. The idea was to make broker pricing easier on everybody, not to make crafting spells harder! Honestly, is that what you want? And why apply inks to appIV spells? Its not like the common raws are that hard to get ahold of. Making an ink per spells would double the work of leveling up. Just...wow.
