Beginning of the end for Brigands? to a much lesser degree Swash...

On Nagafen, Brigands and Swashbucklers can raid together. This merging of classes is absolutely rediculous, if it goes ahead.

I LOL'd IRL after reading a small tidbit of this.

I only read up to the `fact` (lol?) that Brigand's are the worst DPS of the "4" scout classes (I'll just assume he meant dps, as he left out the bards it seems).

Funny thing is, while grouped getting to MMIS, my raid leader said to the small group that was working towards the entrance "Just aim for 10k DPS and you'll be good". The Brigand in the group apparently decided to take that upon himself. He alone parsed 17k. One of the highest parses I've seen so far, and I play an Assassin.

Cheers

Edit:Quick note- He's gear was and still is normal. No crazy T4/Avie gear... he rocked mostly T3 and obviously Myth'd.

ChaoticHand wrote:

Brigands have the lowest Dps potential of the FOUR DPS scouts, this is a fact, not wishful thinking, the parses never lie, ive yet to see any Brig reach, Swash/Assassin/Ranger dps in TSO.
and srsly you seen a brigand beat you on content from Eof? in TSO, and thats your basis in fact is it for refuting the hard evidence of TSO raiding? thanks for that stellar contribution.
ive hit 24k before now on crappy old world Eof raid mobs that have less than 250,000 hps, and you can beat that an equally geared, equally skilled Swash/Assassin/Ranger will beat that with ease.
Go back to your sand pit, you clearly have no first hand knowlegde of current raid content and dps threseholds.

Chanters will also see a semi nerf, or they will see an even greater demand, depending on the limits put in place in the next expansion. TC and coercer's big spell (can't remember what it is off the top of my head) are theoretically going to be applicable across the entire raid at the rate of 1 per group (IE one illy can TC 4 people in raid, 1 per group, and if there is no limit to how many TCs per group, the will most likely be 6 illys per raid). Additionally, bard's buffs are theoretically going mostly raidwide. This of course means that with 2 of each bard you could have every bard buff going at once, and on the other side of the coin, bard mythicals will be worthless at that point if cob/potm go raidwide as well. Mythicals will be mostly useless unless theres an upgrade quest, but at least some like the massively overpowered Inq cure clickie will be usefull for a long long time.
The problem with the games track history and progression is that it is oriented around the following key "strategies":

• add more hp to the mobs.
• moar dps!1! makes everything moar fun/makes the mobs harder based on which side gets it...
  
• add more control effects and drain more power if it's getting killed to easy, and if that doesn't work, add rediculous scripts that nuke everyone's pants off.
  
• swing the nerf bat full blast in every direction (making sure to hit the paladin in the face at minimum every game update and ninja hit them in "maintainance patches" unless they notice aka gu53 amends + Holy Strike V) and as many other classes as you can justify as frequently as you can (as long as you don't hit the golden untouchable classes because soe likes to play favorites).

Call me pessimistic, but since the development team has failed to disprove any of the above countless times that the opportunity was readily available and with the nerfs some classes have seen that where totally unmerrited, and the boosts that some classes got that were totally unmerrited while many issues remain broken for excessively long periods of time, and the repeated assurance that the staff is 100% commited to listening and not ignoring the playerbase... is it any wonder people are leaving the game and are upset?
If the developers are dead set on this path for brigs, it would be very reasonable to at LEAST add debbufs cumulatively to defense + parry + deflection + dodge + more physical mit reductions to reinforce the fact that brigands are a powerful physical debuff class instead of being an overall powerfull debuff class.

Edit: a note about the dps comment, slipperyx is a brigand (who is several years beyond overly infatuated with the parse) and often times tops the parse (I've seen him regularly hit 20k+ dps on tso encounters) even when in raids with very high parsing TSO raid guilds. Besides the fact that the parse is easily manipulateable to show false numbers by a multitude of different methods, the parse doesn't accurately reflect all influencing factors when making the averages. Because of the multitude of contributions each player makes besides JUST dps, I honestly don't think the parse truely carries as much value as alot of people put on it. I've seen wizards hit infinity damage countless times, and myself have done so even on my troubador and paladin. So, parses should be taken with a grain of salt and not be considered the end all dps comparison grounds that it seems to be established and considered as but rather used simply as a tool to compare your own performance from like fights and like situations and to track what did happen to analyse what happened within the heals, damage, buffs, power drain and regen, procs, hit rates, crits, absorptions and other negation effects, and all the other countless usefull things the parse can be used for rather than chalking the entirety of it's existance up to simply taking the sum of all damage output and dividing it by durration.

I have 2 issues. The first one is the removal of the magic debuffs and giving it to another class when theres clearly classes out there that have too much (enchanters). So instead of taking something from a chanter that usually is represented 4 times in a raid they take it from a brig who barely has 1 spot left in a raid.
My second issue is the consolidation (sp?) of abilties with the swashbuckler class. They are on par and sometimes even higher than brigs on single target dps and totally destroy us on aoe dps. Now they also get our debuffs. What is the reason for staying a brig then when you can be a brig with aoe dps ---> Swashbuckler?
This are my concerns.

ReverendPaqo wrote:

grats, im a brigand and i can and have hit 26k before now in TSO on TSO mobs, what i cannot do though is beat a Swash, Ranger or Assassin on a ZW parse, meaning that no BRIG WW has beaten the top dps parses of the other 3 dps scouts, hell even a dirge managed to beat the best Brigand ZW parse by 2k,
in other words stop talking about something you clearly have no comprehension of, anyone that trys to argue that Brigand dps is inline, there buffs, hate gen, and AA's are inline with the other 3 dps scouts needs to stop taking drugs, and get back in touch with reality.

EasternKing wrote:

QFR
this is exactly what people do not understand. Ofcourse brigs can parse 20k+. The only problem then is that the other 3 scout dps classes in the same guild parse HIGHER than that. This is not about the best zw parsing brig but more about all other 3 scout dps classes parsing higher. I do not believe its right that a swashy should be higher on a single mob parse and totally destroy us on 3+ encounter.

I don't know what more sad, the fact that they are nerfing an already underpowered class or the fact that they think they can fix summoners with such a stupid band-aid patch.

9 pages of complaints, they would be silly to implement these proposed changes! I think people would give up hope.

Well, nobody is going to read this but I was just thinking. If the spell debuff components are removed from Brigand debuffs and given to summoners, this might lead to casters going away.
Raids tend to bring one brigand. If Brig's debuffs are broken up between Brigs and say both summoners get the same debuffs that doesn't create an extra slot in the raid. It just means you have to ask who to get rid of. But instead of loosing a utility or a tier 1 DPS class to add both a Brig and a summoner what if there was a better solution? Instead of watering down your DPS, what if you finally concluded that int casters wern't worth bringing for most raids? What if you trimmed all the non-enchanter int casters from your raid? Now Brigs can debuff for all the tier 1 DPS you brought. Sure, you loose a little bit over the old set up due to the 4 enchanters not getting their full debuffs but you had to make a hard choice and you think you made the best one.
Right now, melee dps has an advantage unless a raid NEEDS spell dps because of the mob. I see this as further driving that point home. This isn't helping Summoners as much as its hurting int casters.
I agree with the OP. Buff summoners so that they double up with some of the utility class's abilities so you can sub a summoner in for a bard or enchanter. If they become viable to fill that role, then they'll get 2 or 3 of those 8 slots the utilities are getting. All it would really take is a group power buff and one more group or raid buff and they would be fine. Maybe a new pet that is weaker but does something to buff the group? Like a pet that evens out the mana pools in a group? Or a pet that has a 50% chance of sacrificing itself to heal someone in the group that is about to die?

Just to be save i started leveling up a swashy because i know SoE good enough that they will further screw up the brigand class. Nerfs after nerfs =x