after comparing, the main thing i see is a lack of many procs both missing due to gear but also from other classes not casting proc buffs often enough. the main contributor i see is the real depression in the tohit % as all of those posted are well above 90% where mine is a measely 79% overall, with autoattack sitting at a staggering 64% hit ratio which is sickening and many other powerful attacks well below 80%. what does this mean? it means the mob is not being debuffed very well at all and my offensive attack skills are lacking due to equipment, both are expectable from casual raid forces but that does not mean it should be acceptable however it does not mean the problem lies within the Zerker but those around them which was the point in my original post, you can do everything possible but that does not mean you will be putting out the numbers that other zerkers are, mainly because of things that are completely out of your control, the only thing you can do to fix it is tell people to stop slacking at their jobs.
Because its not your fault if you dont understand why you arent performing and improve that? Be it getting the right buffs or going after certin gear to change the situation. If you're on a soccer team, and you have the ability to score alot of goals but the ball doesnt get passed to you much... isnt it your fault for not asking to have the ball passed to you?
i'm still working on fixing that but again, my point was you can never expect ideal situations when dealing with people who have not raided much or do not know their class inside and out yet.
uux wrote: Ok ill say this as simply as i can. Raid #1 (Uber raid guild) Kills X mob in 30 sec. and the zerker in that grp does 60,000 damage. thats 2k DPS. Raid #2 (casual raid guild) Kills same mob in 60 sec. SAME Zerker does 60,000 damage. Thats 1k dps. Second raid takes longer cause other dps is not doing as much damage, for what ever reason, as raid #1 is. So there you can see it may not be the Zerker but the dps hes with.
I don't think he literally means those numbers, but is just illustrating a point. I think by casual, he means plenty of Adept ones and lack of gear to make a large enough difference to notice compared to a mastered out, geared out force. It's simple enough to compare within the higher contrast of difference presented in groups: Berserkers parse higher per second in a short fight. A high DPS group (with rangers, assassins, warlocks, etc...) creates an environment where mobs die very fast. Since the Berserker initiates the fight when tanking, he gets a "buffed" lead on his parse if the fight ends fast. That same berserker in a low DPS group will be stuck in fights where the mob takes longer to kill... likely long enough to put them out of our sweet spot for optimal parsing. That lead in parsing averages down during longer raid fights but even in raid zones, there are usually enough trash mobs that can be downed quickly enough to help bring the average up when mixed with the longer boss fights. It's not nearly as noticeable as group fighting, but it is there. While the difference is not likely as extreme as the numbers used in the example, it is a valid point.
you do understand that zonewides even out burst damage right? I mean if we are going to talk about "long fights" i usually parse higher on those then my ZW. FTH for example: 2500 on a named but only 2k ZW The only instance when burst would mean anything is for single parses or if you waited every pull to have OW/des/jugger This is from the same run too as you can see by the dates
Skel the duration of the fight is not what matters at all. Its the fact that a Zerker can do the same amount of damage on 2 diff fights and have lower dps numbers if the other classes with him are do less damage. If the mage/scout classes do less dps the fight lasts longer. The fight lasting longer factors in DPS (damage per SECOND). Thats all. DPS is very misleading. I think where you come in on the parse, 1st 2nd 3rd ect and the skill lvl/gear of the people you raid with AND your dps all come into account when deciding how well, or not well, your doing. Its not just a strait oh i do X DPS and you do X DPS thing. Its not black and white. Oh and this topic has gotin a little off i guess. Sorry to the OP. I didnt read everyones posts but you should think about going Sta/Str line. And dont take your DPS to heart. Your 1k+ or so dps is really kinda good without sta line lol. If the OP is still looking at this tread and it hasent been said what do your raid parses look like for the top 5 or so? Where do you rank? Are the people you raid with geared out? Are they good players?
Kaberu wrote: The difference between Adept 1's and Master 1's are quantifiable. The quality in combat arts increases in set steps. Parses easily can reflect this. The damage would be lesser, and for most, the accuracy would be lesser. We're not talking about short fights. We're not talking about rigging a parse so that all our spike damage is up at once. The spike damage over time with normal use comes out pretty consistently. Just look at the parses people are posting in various threads. Destruction is coming out in the same range. Autoattack is coming out in the same range. Those are our biggest sources of spike damage. The durations in the parses for the same zone vary quite a bit. Being able to use those abilities more often easily makes up for the same abilities parsing slightly higher with a shorter duration per fight. If raid #1 completes a zone in 30 minutes and raid #2 completes the same zone in 60 minutes, then it makes no difference on your dps. If a berserker in both raids were doing damage at the same pace (the same damage per second), then in the end the person in raid #2 would have done 2x the total damage and used his abilities 2x as often. If the duration was only 10% longer, then the other berserker should have done 10% more total damage and used his abilities 10% more often. It's really not a trick. The duration isn't a valid point at all and has a minimal impact on the numbers in reality.
uux wrote: Most of the time, I know its like this for me, when i fight lasts for a while my dps number suffer. I use OW/Dest/Jugg or what not. And when there done my dps drops. So yea those numbers arent excatly correct they are an idea of what happens in low dps raids. You did notice on Skel's raid parse theres like 5 people doing 2800+ DPS. They all help each others dps by making the fight duration lower. Lets say Shaix, Libnok, Gisellen and the rest all do less damage. Skel may get a bit more damage cause the fight lasts longer but the increased duration would lower his dps number. At lest thats what i have seen in my parses in the past. When i grp with good dps players my dps soars and when i dps with poor or few dps players my dps drops. I dont know maby Skel's dps goes up with duration but from my personal experiance mine doesnt.
Kage848 wrote: You should have read the OP's following posts. He is in the STA line. You keep saying damage per SECOND. Change that a bit to DAMAGE per SECOND. Both factor in. Your damage doesn't just stop after a certain amount of time. Your total damage keeps increasing as the time goes on. It is very important what other players are doing. Just not their DPS, unless of course you're running out of power. That's just ridiculous, though. There's no excuse to why your damage would just stop after a period of time.
uux wrote: We have spike damage. If a fight is going on long enough so that Dest/OW/Jugg wear off then yes duration is valid. And it does on my raids. Is duration the main factor? Of course not but it does matter. I can tell you for a fact no one would ZW parse 2k+ damage on my raids lol. Although there are other factors the teamwork of your other dps raiders does matter. If you dont agree i can respect that. We will have to agree to disagree...=0)
uux wrote: Good point about his follow-up post. Just saw that. Damage dosent stop but it does trail off as your main good dps abilities wear off.
Kage848 wrote: Did you notice my clockwork parse vs Skel's? Look carefully at the duration. I'll tell you what my particular raid did zonewide as well. It was around 22K. According to you, I can't parse like that when everyone else is parsing so low. There could be a good reason why you parse lower when everyone else parses lower. It's most likely how the mob is debuffed. Compare your parses of when you parse high to when you parse low. It'll show you where the difference is. EDITED: Bleh. It's late and Skel did post a zonewide.
Kage848 wrote: Yes. Per fight it'll trail off towards the end. But in the big picture of the zonewide, you'll be using that ability on another fight sooner. In the end, the difference is like 10-20 dps. It doesn't account for 1K per second missing. The impact is very minimal.
uux wrote: Hmmm. You know your starting to make sense to me now. Even if your dps trails off at the end from fight to fight the burst damage at the start is still factored in. Yea kinda makes sense to me know. A bit lol. But still overall in a parse for an entire raid zone if you kill the mobs fast enough you wont get the tail-off at the end of each fight no? I mean I do know from looking at my parces that i do have a dps loss after a certian amount of time in a fight. DPS is not steady. It spikes. If you can get the mobs dead b4 the spike dies out then your raid dps will still be higher no? And your right on about the de-buffs bro. Myu guild dosent have a brigand lol. Ah well thats the price for being in a casual guild.
Back to the OP'er. I dont think its fair to say oh im not doing 2kdps im doing something wrong. Is 1k low? yea a little, but the soulfire, if its the weapon i think it is (3del, 178ish high end damage), its not the end all weapon of the game. People like Skel are using WAY better im sure lol.
Er, maybe I'm missing something Skel, but is 93 seconds to take down a 73 x4 Named epic really considered long? Based on the total listed for your raid, 33043 per second, Othysis has just over 3 million in hit points. A more modest group pulling 25k in DPS would take 123 seconds on that same fight... a full 30 seconds longer. It's a little harder to maintain that 2.5k for an extra 30 seconds... abilities are indeed affected by time. Destruction for example, one of our signature moves... Destruction did about 650 per hit average on your ZW parse. 650 * 10 procs = 6500... 6500/180 second recast = 36 per second as a base. But yours shows 58 per second? Weird, huh? Comparing the 93 second fight (33+k DPS raid force) to the 123 second fight (25k DPS raid force): 93 second fight = 1 cast of Destruction = 10 procs @ 650 = 6500 6500 in damage / 93 second fight = 70 DPS added from Destruction for that fight. 123 second fight = 1 cast of Destruction = 10 procs @ 650 = 6500 6500 in damage / 123 second fight = 53 DPS added from Destruction for that fight. Sometimes the effect works opposite... a longer fight might allow more recasts to sneak in just before the mob dies, boosting the overall DPS of the ability. As an example, if the fight went 190 seconds, the DPS contribution from Destruction would shoot back up to 69 DPS (huh-huh, he said sixty-nine!). Basically, even though you appear to be doing the same amount of damage per second overall, your average parse is lower in the 123 second fight. Averaging those parses over several fights in a zone would still lead to a lower overall parse ZW despite actually maintaining the 6500 in damage per 180 seconds from Destruction. Reverse engineering your parse numbers shows that Destruction was averaged using approximately 112-second fights (from my rounded figures). So less than 2 minutes per fight easily. Any group that averages in the 2 to 3 minute range will parse lower than you with their Destruction by a noticable amount. That's quite a wide window... and also a window that many casual and lower DPS raiders fall into. It doesn't seem like much, but that is from just one ability. That's not considering the other minor decreases from non-mastered buffs/debuffs and so on that come from the rest of the raid force. On their own they aren't much and seem negligible, but they do add up to a lot more than most realize when stacked together. If anything, it does show the potential trouble when dealing with parsers...
im done talking to you... you dont seem to understand ZW. Not to mention how dumb you sound QQing about 20 dps difference from destruction. This almost reminds me of your dumb regen post. You truly win at the internet
