AVATARS? Why do they have the best gear?

They could just put upgraded versions as common drops on the new loot table.

I believe what the OP was wanting is that 2-4 people can't kill the avatars by themselves, this is a problem if it is happening and I do believe most people would agree with this. Maybe make the encounters bot resistant or make them more interactive that it makes it almost impossible to bot (note there is a difference with boxing and botting)

No one is botting them. All people do is load up additional accounts to join the raid and sit there because the avatars have an arbitrary raid size requirement before they'll go active. Once the fight starts those toons either sit there doing nothing or die to the aoes, while the real players (2-3 groups) kill the avatars. OP is stupid.

Ok I understand that Malleria but is it possible and if it is then that should be adjusted correct??

Tbh Tunare would be easy with 3 people, 1 set of 12, 2 sets of 6. But no it isn't happening on any server atm as far as I'm aware.

The problem with the Avatars is that they have one or two excellent items which mean guilds will still farm them just for these rare drops. Was that what Avatars were originally intended for, just be monopolised forever by one or two guilds ?

I am not sure if SOE planned it but it seemed the instanced Avatars are a way around this problem which SOE has created without upsetting too many people. Obviously that depends on the instanced Avatar loot tables of course.

I don't see why its so hard for people to grasp the very simple concepts behind this.

Harder encounters = Less people able to kill them and therefore less of a CONTEST.
Harder for 'botting' = Same deal. Bots are basically bad players/characters. So tweaks to fight botters/boxed characters also make the fight harder and therefore less of a contest.

Go ahead and make it so it needs 24 people and none of them can stay dead for too long. All it would do is further secure avatars for the guilds already killing them. I'm sure that will make all the sore losers feel a lot better.

For the record, i'm ALL for making them harder because what exactly will happen is what slippery said:

Since all making them harder or 'anti-bot' (which would also make them inherently harder) would do is make people killing them pay a higher price I'm not sure what you are going for. It's impossible that it will result in more competition as I have clearly laid out. If the top guilds are 'wiping' guess who else is wiping when they pull them? EVERYONE. But the top guilds STILL have a MUCH higher chance of killing them.

The problem people have, whether they realize it or not, is that there is an opportunity for player effort and dedication to yield them more rewards than people who are unable or unwilling to do the same. And its not even a large demand.

Not like onyx members didn't log on freep/exile alts when another Q guild pulled avatars and put them into pvp combat...nope never happened.

Yes Avatars are being killed since Onyx is no longer raiding. The reasons vary why they were not pulled by other guilds previously but if you wanna tell yourself its because every other raid guild on naggy "knew" they were onyx's feel free.

implying other people did pull avatars

So, a Qeynos aligned guild on a PVP server, would use alts to attack competing guilds at contested mobs? OK... And why should anyone care about this? Is this supposed to be some kind of actual problem? If you don't like that happening, I suggest you move to a non-PVP server.

Maybe because a guild that could be bothered putting in the effort to kill them in prompt order, is no longer around. So guilds that invest less effort have more of a chance to kill one?

Either way, not sure what point you were trying to make, if any?

Implying Onyx was the only one entitled to solely be the guild pulling avatars is somewhat elitist.

Avi you never played on a pvp server have you? Both of the quoted remarks were in response to Ucala's noting that " kept up cause they knew it was onyx's" now if that doesn't smack as a bit elitist than whatever man. As for a Qeynos guild using freep/exile alts to block other qeynos or freep guilds from pulling contested its par of the course on naggy or at least it was until the poorly thought out pvp changes over the last few years and is no different than blue server guilds trying to lag out the zone when another guild pulls an avatar...no one likes it but its something they deal with...even onyx has asked for block forces on their avatar pulls although that was back when Omence was guild leader. Either way my point was made and those who've played on a pvp server would have seen that.

Other people would try to pull avatars on Nagafen when Onyx was around, but they would stop because anyone who attempted would be slaughtered and humiliated (see Recoil and Clan Defile). Hence, everyone knew they were Onyx's and wouldn't attempt to pull.

Pure Bunk.

How about you tell us one reason? You know, other than saying everyone else is wrong with no counter argument which is completely useless and anyone would be a fool to take your word for it based on that.

Just so you know, guilds being discouraged or otherwise not willing to pull avatars wholly or in part because Onyx is killing them fast counts as "not pulling because they knew they were Onyx's" As a matter of fact the only way it isn't the case is if Onyx purposely let one stay up long term and still no one pulled it.

I didn't really know them but what I do know is guilds on every server get discouraged and even forget about pulling avatars completely because 1 or a couple of other guilds on the server stay directly on top of them and the other guilds can't take their sweet time trying them. So in other words, they don't try because they know its going to go to the other guilds.

I think the dev's should take a look at this issue - if they read closely several guilds have admitted to botting, even admitted it in the thread, and it's a very common to see 1-2 bot groups on Freeport killing them, and nothing is ever done about it.


All anyone is asking is for HARDER AVATARS, so they can't be perm-camped mid-day with a half-crap Raid force, they should be able to be done, altho oxxy wasn't on the same field, and wasn't a loot dummy, it had a extreme dps check, when lag wasn't a issue, that didn't allow people to log mid day with crap roster and kill it.

All thats going to do is:
-Make avatars less accessible to lower guilds and thus even less 'contested'
-Make guilds who are staying on top of them pay a higher price for loot as they continue to stay on top of them. No, it will not give more guilds a shot at them.

So i'm wondering what making it slightly harder for the people already killing them and taking them further away from other guilds is going to accomplish. It just seems like an attempt to spite the guilds already killing them since that's all it will really do.

I do like the fact that at least 3-4 guilds on every server can kill them given the chance, with that being said there is no reason that a slight tweak can be made to make it more difficult to bot. Will the new avatars be harder than what we are seeing now or on same level.

I would like to know how you even have an opinion on this matter, Illuminati never pulled an avatar lol, you were NEVER out there. Whether you want to believe the truth or not that is how avatars went down. We would wipe the guilds attempting to pull and spam humiliating and recruitment messages over there dead bodies. This accomplished two things, discouraged them from going back out again and we actually got several apps this way lol.

I would guess harder since people will be able to practice on the instance versions.

the only people that want harder avatars are the people that know it will remain their avatars (myself included). all in all contested epics have always been slightly easier with better loot, it's so it's open to more people (atleast the attempt to try is).
like I said go ahead and make them harder, than maybe we won't have to call list

edit: also what you are asking for doesn't exist, you want mobs that are So Hard that they can't be botted, which is an impossible thing. bots are just computer programs and can follow scripts