The server thing could be right. Each server has its own "personality" and if a class has a **** reputation it spreads across the server community alot more then across the entire game. The fact is, I don't get near the tells and invites that I used to back in the day
I don't know about group inclusion (I usually group with friends and guildies, rarely PuGs, and I haven't been playing Kae as much lately so I dunno about random invites and tells), but I've been looking over all the guild recruitment posts and class lists on my server, and for quite a while now, no guild has been looking for ANY rangers. None. These aren't all hardcore raid guilds (some are, but not all), but they are looking for specific classes, so they're probably raiding even if it's not the only thing they do. Not once in the last few months have I seen "ranger" in the list of desireables, and that may imply that ppl are becoming aware that we bring sub-par DPS and very little utility. Or, it just might mean that rangers are still one of the top five most popular classes across all servers, and they already have all the rangers they need.
It has to be something in that realm. I know it's not server population, because I play on one of the larger servers out there. And I don't think it's name recognition so much because I tend to solo and group rarely. It may have to do with availability. I don't know how popular ranger is on Najena or how many there are in my level range. That's another factor, level range. I'm lower than a lot of you, so there may be less DPS in general in my tier.
Rangers are capable of high dps...it just requires a much greater effort I'll admit though, the only reason i came over to butcherblock from nektulos was that i was shocked to see a ranger opening in a guild that actually kills [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] and is good, and took advantage of the moment I saw it :smileyvery-happy: And because of it I'm having a better time then ever Main reason I can think of a guild ever needing or wanting a ranger would be for miracle arrow line of CAs while its not necisarry, it can sure make pulling certian mobs much easier
np coah alza quit btw . They do kick [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] - Sakir Message Edited by arkkon on 06-21-2006 02:28 PM
yes i should apologize to xney. I wasn't meaning to be a fuktard. I'm just getting tired of people constantly complaining about our class. Yes we have problems. Yes they need to address them and they aren't (atleast in a timely enough manner that all of us would agree, no??) 'jeeperster, I didn't claim that i was great, please don't put words in my mouth. My sig is a reminder.. something the devs are choosing to ignore it appeers. That was their claims btw.. Yes, Bal 848 isn't that good. Some wouldn't even call it desent. However, i can, do, and have done 1k-1.5k on fights. even hit 1900 once. but that was situational and luck with procs, crits, group setup, and a pretty short fight. Noone is going to be able to maintain that for several mins(meaning alot more then just 2-3), no class can. The longer the fights the lower the numbers, period. Are we fixed? nope. Are we completly broken? heck no. Yes the devs choose not to notice(it seems), maybe not even bother to read this forum any longer(could you blame them from the last 9months or so?). btw please feel free to post a full raid parse also. I think you'll find you wont score as high as you might think, and others wont either.. :smileyhappy: but they are good indication of what people are doing overall, not just 1 encounter.
Honestly everyone, this is one subject that I hate putting my opinion in. For I have been in so many situations where I have seen rangers not even make the parse, and afew situations where I am in awe. Forinstance, last night our guild decided to help the public out with MoA. There werent many of us there, so most of it was a pickup raid. There were 3 rangers there then myself. And I would not want to see these rangers near my guild, they werent even showing up on my parse. I was ontop, and staying that way for a good 70% of the fights. One flip side I have seen officers in some other guilds come into our raid to see how things are done and whats what.. And that rangers have put out 1.4k dps and held it there, one was using the bow of the flapping wing, the other an gizzelfazzle (spelling?) bow. I have had long discussions with that ranger, and checked over what hes using. And have come to one conclusion - gear. I am using a scalesplitter bow, with about 60% masters 30% adept 3's. That ranger is a rich mofo with mroe like 80% masters. Now, before we give the class arguement out in this case. I try a veriety of combinations and techniques and parse them, then look at how my dps is overall. And go from there. Also, I want to add that the ranger who is making these claims does have some valid points. However, realize he is using a gizzlefazzle bow not a fabled bow. However, he has said he has had applicants to dissolusion and watched there dps. When LU 13 came out, sony made pred auto attack do more damage than any other class.When LU 21 came out, they boosted ranged attack by 33% making ranged auto attack a viable alternitive. I also want to point out, that I have seen people do as much or more auto attack than CA's. Look at the parsings of auto attack and what the rouges are doing, and what you are doing before you go nuts. The unfortunate thing is, I do not know a fully geared rouge/pred in my guild to compare to so I dont have data to backup what I am saying. I also want people to remember, that even though t2 dps may be close to t1 dps at times. This does not mean that it will be this way forever, there is going to be a new expansion comming out with a diety system and new AA's (second part likely but hasent been said). So, the gap between t1 and t2 dps will likely be much greater, who knows what we may get. Procs, abilities, double attack, tripple attack, 50% less recast who knows. Now, I seriously want people to think of the SPECIFIC problems before you go commenting on DPS. I am very tierd of people saying that our CA's dont do much damage, or the t6 is better then t7 etc. Time and time I have said that our main problems is gaps in our auto attack when we use melee CA's in a ranged auto attack distance. And possibly our recasts. No where in all my posts have I actually said that our "damage" needs improving. One last thing, if you are noticing that your assassin/sk/necro are doing more damage than you and your getting annoyed about it. Maybe its time you changed your CA's. I switched over to the str/agil line from agil/int line and im never looking back. The extra damage and recasts from snipers shot and rain of arrows far outdoes any crit to poisons. And, those classes will nolonger get a boost off of your debuff to poison while you are not contributing much to yourself. Also, has anyone read the description on the proc debuff? - its on every melee attack. One last thing, could someone please test out the multi hit auto attack AA.. If it actually works on our bow or not, if it doesnt.. thats one of the things we need to hugely complain about rather than just generalizing about our dps.
That would make way too much sense for that too work on ranged. SOE hates rangers :smileywink:. Methinks if this skill works on ranged, every Ranger will be respecing. However, because the 2nd skill in the stamina line is melee only it is most likely melee only as well. The predator line is obviously geared towards assassins with the agility line thrown in there to give us Rangers a bone.
im just waiting for someone to start poking around calling me a fanboi cause I dont go with the flow .. Oh no what will we do if we realize we dont suck as much as we think
Well, for one will we see the top guilds recruiting Rangers again, because we will be a top source of raid dps.... But yeah...
Top raiding guilds should have all the elements in place already (hence making them a top raiding guild). With that in mind, when the need for recruitment does come up, its going to fill a roll, not fill a spot. Now I don't play on one of the more elite servers, I play on Oasis, and I can assure you that the top end raiding guilds on that server all have at least one ranger. Do they need more then one ranger? prolly not. Its also been my experience, due to my guild recruiting several other rangers after I joined, that not all rangers are created equally. I've seen a few parse worst on the list during the whole raid, I've seen then parse in the middle. I personally do everything possible to parse on the top, or near the top. Most of the time I am satisfied with my results. The point being, while equally equipped rangers should parse relatively similar, this isn't the case. LU13 made a lot of lazy rangers, and its been stated over and over again. I donate think there is anyone in my guild that would me sitting on the sidelines ( LOL I could be wrong since I've never really asked then :smileyvery-happy during a raid. Its my opinion that I do decent enough damage throughout the entire raid, that Im a viable DPS solution. The one thing that I can not do that I would absolutely love, would be to raid with other rangers... maybe even other guilds, just as a comparison as to how everyone else stacks up. Bah.. Im starting to ramble.. anyways Nesse 70 Ranger / Oasis
That makes me sad, we've done just about everything within the top 10 guilds game wide :smileysad: But to the point, for a while I felt sort of unhappy about our damage, but once I geared up in T7 its not really that bad. Its not amazing like it was in T6 of course (yes that needed to be changed) but its also not awful. The other ranger in my guild and myself can jump all over the place ranging from tops of the dps at ~1600 but sometimes drop down to half that both on single target or small group encounters. As long as I'm in the top 5 somewhere and not an embarrassingly amount behind the person on top I'm not going to complain too much. We of course are wearing quite a bit of fabled and have the majority of our masters so we're not the majority of the rangers out there. For the people who aren't quite as lucky as we are I do agree that a few things need to be addressed like ranged auto attack damage. Two fabled DWers hitting for 800 combined every 2 seconds beats out 1600ish hits every 7 seconds. The Possible solutions for Rangers thread does an amazing job of calmly offering up some suggestions to help us out.
Please dont get me wrong, Im in no way complaining about my DPS, and I usually parse between 1000-1200, with spikes on occassion as high as 1500 and as low as 800 (depending ho how fast we pull) What I should have said, I guess, was... I have never seen one of the top raid guilds in action, so it would be hard for me to actually say how my DPS (or other rangers for that matter) would stack up against the best of the best. When Im not in one of the top 4 spots during a raid, it usually means we've wiped :smileytongue: I certainly dont want to take anything away from Iniquity or RE for that matter... cause as far as I know, you two are the only ones that have killed Tarinax on Oasis, grats to both guilds for that feat. And both guilds have rangers in them, so we cant be all bad.
Well, as it is.. I am forseeing problems in the late game, we have 4 active rouges in the guild, two active summoners. I parse under the 3 rouges, and right on with the conj, the necro is usually number one. Our wizard is now playing defiler, and he used to be number 1 at nearly all times, and our assassin has reallife kicking the crap out of him right now and he easilly beats the wizard... Its an embarassment when your a tier 1 dps, and get taken down by t2 dps very easilly.. The sad thing is, I outdamage all the rangers I know but two. (I make it a point to get to know all the rangers on my server).
I just recently did the Ghoulbane quest in the raid zone Torig the Zoll - out of 12 peeps - I came in 2nd on DPS behind a 61 mentoring to 45 Zerker. But only by a few hundred points. I was 50 mentoring to 42.
I know alot of the rangers on my server, but knowing them, and raiding with them are not really the same thing. Its not very likely that I'll get to raid with any of the other "high end" Rangers on my server either, due to lock outs and what not. Its not very often, In my experience anyways, that Im being beat by anyone that should be parsing below me... (not counting the Conjys) It does happen from time to time, dont get me wrong, but its not like every fight Im losing to T2 DPS. Which again, is why it would be nice to see how the TOP players from the best raid guilds do.. not just in one encounter, but for the night over all. As it stands now, the data that I have on how well a ranger performs on a raid is limited to the players in my guild. If I were to spend a night raiding with a top end guild, would I miss the top 4 on a regular basis? Maybe... but unless that happens, theres no real way to tell how far below the curve rangers might be.
The guys from the top end guilds like Dissolution have explained it here in the Ranger forums. People just choose not to hear it. I have been parsing in the 1000-1200 range in the last few raids I've done, not in a high end guild but a regular weekend raiding group that's ok. Usually I'm #1 or in the top 3, but these raids aren't the same caliber as top guilds, merely competent. I estimate that with a few more masters to get to full masters and the last few AA points I could average about 1100 on my own. (This was with very few procs or group benefits) With a fabled bow and the right raid setup maybe 1200-1300? There's nothing wrong with that number, it would be pretty decent in most situations, but i suspect an assassin who is also maxed out would be getting 1500 if not more. not to mention I think several other non-mage classes could get around that much without getting too crazy. I'm not talking some weird uber-max critical parse, just on your average trash or named fight. For some reason SOE thinks that our 1300 is the same as the assassins 1500. It's all relative and you can't take one person's numbers, certainly not mine. I remember in one recent group I was in, there was a newly-betrayed assassin with all adept1s who was within 10% of my ranger's dps - and he was like 64 instead of 70. He was a decent player, let's say at about my skill level, but that just seems wrong. I would love to group with an assassin with an SOE developer watching and try to do the best job I could, either in group or raid settings. I think they really need to listen to some of the top end players (and Im not one of them) about this issue. Don't get me started on the whole double-attack thing.
