Just because you lack the skills to play a brawler tank doesn't mean all of us do. I already explained that "unaccepted socially" whine to you.
why use a tank that has to use grp buffs which cost 80PWR when you could have a more rounded tank who can do a taunt thats more powerful than every taunt skill available to your class and use less pwr? taunts cost 40 pwr tops. more efficient fuel - better production - less maintenance.. why use a tank that has to use grp buffs which cost 80PWR when you could have a more rounded tank who can do a taunt thats more powerful than every taunt skill available to your class and use less pwr? taunts cost 40 pwr tops. more efficient fuel - better production - less maintenance.. why use a tank that has to use grp buffs which cost 80PWR when you could have a more rounded tank who can do a taunt thats more powerful than every taunt skill available to your class and use less pwr? taunts cost 40 pwr tops. more efficient fuel - better production - less maintenance.. why use a tank that has to use grp buffs which cost 80PWR when you could have a more rounded tank who can do a taunt thats more powerful than every taunt skill available to your class and use less pwr? taunts cost 40 pwr tops. more efficient fuel - better production - less maintenance.. did you read this part????????? oh hold on- one more time for the road. why use a tank that has to use grp buffs which cost 80PWR when you could have a more rounded tank who can do a taunt thats more powerful than every taunt skill available to your class and use less pwr? taunts cost 40 pwr tops. more efficient fuel - better production - less maintenance.. so like i said - you dont ever have a real rebuttle to my argument- you pick out something you can kill and kill it and hope the rest will dissapear loser. step up ur game if you are gonna play... :smileywink: Message Edited by SageMarrow on 03-08-2005 11:11 AM
Listen Sage, your arguement SUCKS. The reason to use a fighter whose group buffs cost more mana is because they offer something else as MT that the lower power buffer doesn't. But I don't care, you are childish, immature, and stubborn. You never post anything constructive and you flame people that try to explain things to you, becuase you don't know how to have an intelligent conversation. I have SoE on my side, what do you have?
Really? Then add me to the list.. I tank day in day out and get bombarded by my friends to come tank from them because the "insert [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] player regardless of tank class here" just got them 3% debt. Player skill has far more to do with being a good tank than the class you choose. Hi my name is Kharza and I am a TANK! Kharza 37 Monk Mistmoore
hmm. i said i tank in a semi frequent and i do it VERY WELL - and all my friends happen to be beserkers and gaurdians that i leveled up with in FP- and some i made along the way in the steppes. why would a tank - invite me to come and tank when i can dps and still come grp? - my server isnt as populated as most - highkeep is not the most populated server by far... they invite me to group because i keep the mobs on timers- because i keep buff circulation going - because of my dps and fight management balance. thats why my beserker and sk's friend invite me to grp - not so they can NOT MT- so you say what- make better friends?? i love the ones i have and we watchout for each other greatly - and compliment each others skill. i manage adds- while they get things undercontrol - i dont need to be healed when a big AE goes off cause im a bruiser - i can heal myself for 600pts. making the perfect off tank/dps machine - maybe i have never broken it down that way. but when the MT goes out of power and i have reserves- i keep the party rolling while he hacks from behind - im not just some crazy DPS'ing monk- if you do a check from the earlier post in this forum- there are more dpsing monks than tanking ones- the only ones who stand to fight are the tanking ones cause you all dread the thought of being nerfed or boosted = into dps machines.. which i understand - which is why i get both points of view - yall just refuse to see any pov other than your own -
and here is the real crux of your argument, you rolled a tank and so did your friends, instead of rolling a scout or mage to fullfill the dps role you would rather forget the little archtype thing and be changed to a pure DPS role so that you dont have the hassle of going through all those levels again, so you made a mistake in your character selection, get over it.
For starters, Gage, saying you have SoE on your side is against one of the game/forum rules, go look it up. Anyway, here's a decent argument as to why monks/bruisers are decent tanks. All fighters are tanks. Yes. We are. If you doubt it, I don't think you're playing the same EQ2 that everyone else is playing. When SoE was interviewed about grouping, they were asked a question about if there was any one "perfect" group. They said that each situation calls for a different type of group, so there is not one "Perfect" group. Some groups call for a guardian to tank, others call for a brawler or crusader to tank. In anything that doesn't contain a groupx3 or x4 MOB, I'm happy to tank, unless I know there is a guardian I can throw some avoidance buffs on and let tank better. Brawlers are unique from every other class in the game. We CAN tank if it's needed, but honestly, I'm calling any monk or bruiser a moron if they demand to tank while shoving a guardian on DPS. We can also do damage, buff people, pull, manage adds through stun/fear. We have so many uses, and do them strikingly well. Maybe YOU would give up damage for the ability to tank venekor, but what difference does that leave between a guardian and a monk? Next you know, you'll be asking to wear heavy armor. Please, if you want to be the hero that saves the day and tanks the dragon, be a guardian, reroll your char, stop beating the horse because it's already dead. If you have trouble tanking anything below x3, you're doing something wrong, or you're trying heroic/epic encounters solo. Just think about it for a moment without believing your class should be "THE BEST." What place does a guardian have if not MT? Backup tank? What if that's taken by another brawler? Where are crusaders in this mess? It's a sticky situation that a lot of people are happy with, a lot more are content with, and a few are upset with. You just need to realize that when SoE puts on a box "GAME EXPERIENCE MAY CHANGE THROUGH ONLINE PLAY" that NOTHING they mentioned in the manual has to be true for when you play the game online. You're not going to tank everything that a guardian can, and a guardian isn't going to have as much utility/dps as you. Notice to everyone who wants their monk to tank like a guardian: Roll a guardian, you'll be happier.
umm no - i rolled this tank - because i didnt wana be a tin head - and i also like to solo in my down time - yes i do like doing damage - but ive also said before - clearly a point you missed in that argument i wrote above... is that i do BOTH i would take EITHER OR_ i prefer DPS - cause it makes for more GRP ABILITY I speak upon behalf of those that are looked upon as dps - not tanks - those that dont play the game in the capacity and level to be tanks - those that dont research EVERY CLASS those that dont post on the forums - those that dont wanna compete with the greater amount of tanks- we need a spot - which is what i said a LONG TIME AGO_ read those post- if we are gonna be MT - we need a class overhaul- But i know and so do all of you - know that it would be ALOT easier and socially acceptable to got the dps/bodyguard route - that most of us play today - not the MT monks - most of us.
HAHAHAHA you never stop do you? We have a spot: tank. Socially acceptable = doesn't matter. Easier = your opinion, all the patches/changes they've made so far are to make us better tanks. Stop Sage, you just make yourself look bad.
Hi, my name is Bransen and I am a TANK! (thus why I told Garven Tralk: "I want to be a fighter.") Lvl 22 Gnomish Monk, Crushbone
My name is Girth. AND I AM I TANK. Sage, people would want the monk because we out damage other tanks. I've tanked from 1-40 except the period between the agility nerf and the mitigation patch. The fact is, we are a tank class. If we do the 2nd highest dps of fighter archtype(behind bruiser) then that only helps us get groups that we would otherwise lose due to peoples perception of how monks tank, which I can only assume comes from the monks that only want to sit be lazy and dps. We were dps in eq1 and look what happened. We should be tanks and we have enough dps/utility to fill other roles. If you can't tank well, spend money on gear/spells. If you can't dps, quit the game. I have not been to many high end raids so I cannot comment on that. This is based on leveling and normal groups. Message Edited by Tully14 on 03-08-2005 02:31 PM
ok gage - stop trailing my post - its apparent that you have stopped thinking and just want to make me look foolish- but hello to all the thousands of people who are smart not to post- and just read and relate- and just read cause im positive you see/saw my point and this discussions progression over 3 different threads which is what matters when the devs read this. both sides of the argument have been seen but very few post that offer up solution and fact - not jargon and pushing the bs farther than need be. ive said before that changing us into full blown tanks would require a class overhaul here. read it - anyone who chooses and quote: "we dont do more dps- we dont have ANY utility that cant be replaced - we dont have anything that sets us apart as a class - we are soon to lose the dps - we arent the better tank nor in skills - health points - taunts - buffs etc - and finally we dont have the masses behind us socially who think we can tank - feel the need to risk us tanking w/ x amount of plate tanks running around that all reap the benefits of heavy armors - so the only way to counter balance this would be a complete class overhaul from scratch which is not happening = that would mean never giving the dps in the first place = replacing those million and one combat arts with taunts and aggro increasing attacks - giving 360 degree avoidance to compete with gaurdian and plate types mitigation - and giving light armor the outright mitigation and ac values of medium armor to at least kind of - to manage the damage spikes." this is fact - grp buffs and the such were NEVER intended to be used as taunts. seeing as so many wish to stand on what is "as intended"... further more i have also posted this several places. its an open equation and if it does not hold true then i may be out of place here. Guardian/zerker tanking = monks/bruiser for buffs and dps Monk/Bruiser tanking = no concurrent use for a gaurdian or zerker in 99.9% of content. which thereby replaces us (as of today) in an unfair position against tanks that dont have a dual purpose as we do. in question of raids - the same applies = if we tank = who needs a gaurdian- buffs are nice but an extra mana regen or healer or 10,000 dps from an assassin outweighs any 1-2 buffs. now if any of these things can be contended with counter solutions then - fine - but that is the direction this post needs to take- not one of stacking problems and argument over what is apparent. when this thread started the post went well before gage interjected himself instead of allowing the post to take its turn- read the first 3 pages and count the tally against the other. no one denies that the class is tanks are tanks -and are supposed to be tanks - but the original design of the class and its skills cannot be denied either, true? the post was originally flooding with posters who claimed they enjoyed their class because they could fill either roll also indicating that they would not trade in thier dps for tanking ability exclusively. when these same posters voiced thier opinion- many of them were newer faces on this issue and posted strictly to voice their opinion on this simple question and subject- soon after the flame god reared his head and all the dps monk posters from the first 4 pages magically dissappered back into the shadows because they are both sick of - and dont want to be invovled in this debate. dont take my word for it - do your own research. Message Edited by SageMarrow on 03-08-2005 12:37 PM
Are you saying you want a class overhaul? Thats stupid. We do everything fine atm except tank raid mobs is what Gage is trying to say. Thats the problem. The question is whether they will lower our DPS or make the scouts/mages higher.
"-its apparent that you have stopped thinking and just want to make me look foolish-" - Sage Gage doesn't need to make you look foolish. You're doing just fine on your own.
DPS monk? There is no such thing as a tank monk or dps monk. There is a well played monk and poorly played monk. The only thing a DPS monk is is a monk that doesn't play his monk to full potential...why should we be punished for that?
tully - you just proved my point... :smileyvery-happy: please dont embody the mindless brute mindset of a tank as well as the position, its bad form as some would say. read the post again and try again sweety- sniper - you too - read the post again - and try one more time to pull something educated out of your behind before letting it talk. someone with a mind - please read my post - // please just one person - you cant comprehend it - if it isnt in the form of a flame that you can argue about - Message Edited by SageMarrow on 03-08-2005 12:49 PM
what the [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] are you talking about? you can't even make a complete sentence... a monk that just sits back and does dps everyday isn't playing their class as meant to be played so why should the rest of us who chose A TANKING CLASS be punished? something educated...? your argument is that monks use group buffs to taunt so nobody would want them... Message Edited by Tully14 on 03-08-2005 02:48 PM
Strange, I wonder what Dragon Stance versus Sweeping Crane and the fact they can't be used at the same time is supposed to mean. I interpret it as : If you want to do more damage (up DPS) you're in Dragon Stance ...If you want to have more defense at the cost of less offense you're in Sweeping crane (tanking). One stance isn't more right than the other...it's all player preference. If one monk wants to be in Dragon stance from 1-50, who are you to say they aren't "playing right". Calling them a poorly played monk just because they use that option is wrong. If a monk never wants to tank at all, who cares? it's their 25 bucks/month (all access) and they can do what they like.
