Once again I will speak on a sore subject, do you really think that the DB company is making a game to please the players or make it easier for them to play the game itself? Don't be naive, she is doing this to make money for herself and her shareholders. And something tells me that the implementation of DirectX is a REQUIREMENT of the company’s shareholders. BUT, after this implementation, which many players do not want, since they will not be able to play due to the fact that their video cards and computers do not support the outdated DirectX 11.1, which the MS company removed from service back in 2013, the influx of money into the game has sharply WILL BE REDUCED. In 2-3 months it will not resume and the shareholders will DEMAND everything to be returned as it was. That is, roll back the game to DirectX 9.0c Money, money, money, but with DirectX 11.1 there will be no money
Why would shareholders care what version of DirectX is being used ? My opinion is they don't know about graphics cards, etc. My opinion is, this is a 'jump on the X11 bandwagon' thing.
There's old computer wisdom; - “is it working? - Don’t touch anything.” It seems the DB company does not adhere to it. And the shareholder will decide that in the first month the drop in income is an accident, in the second month it is a coincidence, in the third month it is a pattern. What was new these three months? DirectX 11.1 So, throw it in the furnace and return everything back But less than half of the players who left will return. Some will find new games, others will decide to return to the real world. So it turns out that the company ITSELF, with its own hands, slaughtered “the goose that lays the golden eggs.”
The problem is that it "won't be working" in the future as more manufacturers dump support for the legacy DX9 API. Waiting to cross that bridge when the latest generation of graphics cards just won't work isn't a solid plan. Them shifting to DX11 now, before that inevitably happens, is a good thing.
I agree with Arandar. Seems he and I agree on a lot of things lately. There is no going back, this is a battle that needs to be fought and won now before DX9 goes the way of the dodo, and DB/DP doing that just shows they understand there is a need to take this seriously, and so they are. Waiting until the very last second before DX9 finally closes its doors is not wise and would lack vision. On top of that, the "never change a running system" thing doesn't apply to a live service game that is in constant ever evolving motion. Ppl have been complaning about a number of things over the years, whether that's out of memory issues, performance, lag, multicore or even better looking visuals etc. - and now they're finally addressing these things, step by step, which means they're listening and improving where necessary. I don't like change when it's forced upon us just for the sake of changing to be trendy, but I do appreciate it when it makes absolute sense in order to grow or improve things, and what we're doing here right now makes sense on all fronts. Even though we're still in the first couple of days of test (not even Beta), some of us here are already seeing performance go up (20-30 fps more) all while fixing issues as they appear. Imagine what will be possible in a few months from now. This change was long overdue, and I cherrish the fact that our games are seeing these updates to their core. Heck, I would love to see DC Universe Online be next on the list of all things next-gen upgrades. I'm still sad DC's next-gen upgrade got canned and I would love to see it happen rather sooner than later. Other mmos have gone DX11 (and some went even further with DX12 like Swtor *soon), and they not only survived to tell the story, but they actually even drastically improved with these changes, like Guild Wars 2 and FF14 for example.
I would assume DBG gathers metrics of player hardware with every game launch. So with that in mind, does anyone here think they haven't run the numbers on exactly how many players they can expect to lose from this one change? It was never going to be zero players lost, but between the impacted numbers being low already and some percentage of players simply using it as an opportunity to upgrade at long last, it's probably not that high. Certainly not as high as the hyperbole going on in this thread and others implies. The developers aren't answering much because we aren't entirely asking them questions. A small contingency in these threads is demanding accommodation. The decision has likely already been made that certain hardware will no longer be supported. Yours may unfortunately be on the chopping block. That is likely by necessity. This is an online, multi-player game. It has to be designed in such a way that it can run on newer, modern hardware as it's being released. Old hardware only does one thing -- it declines in numbers and gets retired. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but always eventually. Technology is inherently progressive, standing in front of the tech-train screaming at it to stop will only result in your being run over. Everyone here is one player out of thousands, and it is far simpler to tell an individual to upgrade their old PC than to tell the player base en-masse to tolerate increasingly poor performance. They might lose a customer over that here and there, but it's the customer's choice to not modernize their hardware. They aren't willing to lose the entire game over a few individuals. I understand some folks are on fixed incomes. I understand it's not always so simple as "go buy a new one" being a viable answer. That is why several of your fellow players are in here and in other threads trying to offer advice or solutions to make the best of this necessary change. For some of you on particularly old hardware, Linux with Vulkan translation might be a viable path, but it's not a perfect solution. The only perfect solution here is going to be ensuring you meet DBG's system requirements, which are subject to change as the game and environment it must run within evolve.
WDDM is the Windows Display Driver Model, the driver architecture provided for graphics card manufacturers. It basically provides a way for them to allow their GPUs to draw on the desktop and within applications using Direct3D. The current version is WDDM 3.2, which is included as part of the latest Windows 11 build. The version of WDDM that's available is something that is intrinsically tied to the operating system. Version 1.0 was for Vista, 1.1 for Windows 7, 1.2 for Windows 8, 1.3 for Windows 8.1, and versions 2.x for Windows 10. So kind of a long explanation there, but no, I'm afraid the only way to get a later version of WDDM which is required by DirectX 11.1 is to upgrade the operating system.
That's not quite true. There is at least one clear question about DX11 / DX11.1, that no redname seems to want to elaborate on at the present, and perhaps there is good reason for that, but at the very least, a "bear with us, we'll get back to you when we know a little more" might be good customer service. As per the original EQ, the minimum requirements for the EQ2 DX11 port, are DX11.0. The recommended requirements are DX11.1. So that implies it should and will run on cards that are DX11.0 capable. However, some people, myself included, are reporting that they're not able to log into Test Server successfully because of a DX11.1 requirement. It would be nice to know what's happening here, so people can make plans should they need to. Is the minimum actually going to be 11.0 (as stated) or 11.1 (as Test Server login requires). The EQ port had the same minimum/recommended requirements in terms of DX, and for me it is working, despite my card being 11.0 capable and not 11.1 capable. Perhaps at the moment, the devs are focussing on 11.1, and then will look at doing what they need to do to ensure it also runs on 11.0 when they have that sorted, before the port goes live in May. But that is just complete guesswork from me - as I have nothing else to go on, nobody is talking. It would just be nice to know either way, as many of us can't throw money around on a whim for upgrades or whole new systems, and need to make plans in order to continue playing our beloved game - particularly in such a big anniversary year as well, when there are a lot of 'this year' / 'one-time' only things on the cards. Should this end up actually being DX11.1 minimum - and not DX11.0 as currently stated, then I will be locked out as I can't just upgrade my card for a couple of hundred pounds or whatever - I'll need to replace my entire my system as my card is probably the best I can put on this motherboard without having major bottleneck issues. Not something I want to do just yet nor am in a position to do, nor do I need to justify the whys and wherefores of all that to the 'its time to upgrade brigade'. Though I will likely replace this rig over the next couple of years. Meanwhile, as ancient as this rig is, it has been perfectly capable of playing much more modern, and far more demanding games than EQ2 is, such as No Man's Sky and New World to name but a few. So it seems kinda ridiculous that I may be locked out of this game that I've been playing perfectly well, without any major issues (aside from connectivity issues) since 2004. Also, others in these various DX11 threads are asking perfectly valid questions that merit some sort of response from a redname, and I don't think the problems some people are having are quite as clear-cut as suggested. Many people with perfectly modern, higher-end systems with DX12 in place appear to be having difficulty with the DX11.1 requirement for example. (Even though DX11.0 is stated). Personally, I'm completely on-board with the reasoning for this port, it makes sense, I do understand it. But at the same time, some clarity and better communications on this looming change would certainly go down a treat - particularly with the whole DX11/11.1 thing. Some will undoubtedly be shut out when this port goes live, which is unfortunate. One of those people may be me, and if that's the case, then that's the case, and I'll move on for now. It would just be nice to have some clarification so I can make plans. If it looks like I can't play after May, then I'd rather bow out now, and put my leisure time into another game or two, if I have to, until I can get upgraded, rather than continue grinding Darkpaw doubloons / YoD achievements etc. on my toons in the coming weeks, when I might not even be able to play any more come this May. I'd just like to know what's what so I can make plans. Some folks have put thousands of dollars/pounds/etc. into this game down the years through xpacs, aa subs, SC, swag etc. (not to mention Landmark founder packs), and will probably continue to pump money in for many coming years with this game, EQ live and a third game, should it come. Many also have a lot of digital assets within the game that they've purchased that they'd like to be able to continue to enjoy. As someone who's spent most of my working life in marketing, I'd say it pays to look after your customers, particularly when they have pumped so much money into this game down the years and may potentially continue to do so for years to come. So some better communications and clarification on this DX11 / DX 11.1 thing as detailed above, really would be appreciated, especially sooner rather than later.
Now would be a grand time for a Community Relations person to step up and be the Liason between the customers, the Developers, and even the Shareholders/corporate office. Where is Holly Windstalker, or a Dreamweaver, or perhaps an Angelique to pop in and say, we hear you, this is what is going on in at least a generalized format? Come on, someone, talk to us, please.
Well said, sir, all of it. It may be that They were concerned for the half a dozen folks still playing EQ2 on Win8.x, but one would hope that the "Wunderkind" of MS back then would be flexible enough to deal with either 11.0 or 12.0... :-/ Uwk
Nvidia GT 630 with DirectX 11.0 feature set Ok, another update to my last two posts. Son is sick with a fever, haven't slept much, so I wasn't able to try for longer than 2 hours. I stopped testing the moment that he got sick and will be a little bit afk for the next 48 hours until he recovers. However, I was able to test that old Nvidia GT 630 with my test rig. Here are its specs: https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/geforce-gt-630-rev-2.c2376 As you can see, it merely supports the DirectX 11.0 feature set and it only does Vulkan up to version 1.2.175. I used Proton 8 / Experimental for this test, but Proton 8 and higher recommends Vulkan 1.3 for the best results. This wouldn't be Linux if you didn't have at least one other option though: You can use lower Proton versions - or - switch to OpenGL instead if your gpu does not meet these requirements. As expected, EQ2-DX11 checks for DX11.1 compatibility, and this is what popped up on Linux / Steam / Proton during the first test: DirectX 11.1 required This is the same error message that some Windows users in our community are seeing (Gero comes to mind). This error can be triggered by both EQ2-DX11 feature set check - or - it can also occure when your gpu is lacking Vulkan 1.3 support which is necessary for Proton 8 and higher. So what I did is switch over from DirectX -> Vulkan (DXVK) and use DirectX -> OpenGL instead. This is a fallback compatibility option that Proton has built-in for this exact use case since not all graphic cards support Vulkan or the more modern DirectX features. On Linux you can fall back to this very simple when necessary. With Crossover and Lutris it's a simple and single switch / button to swap back and forth between the two (literally a single click, click here to see screenshot), and in Steam you can add this to your launch options by right clicking the game EQ2-DX11 -> properties -> launch commands: PROTON_USE_WINED3D=1 %command% By doing this you disable Vulkan and enable OpenGL instead. After doing this, lo and behold: It works. Not only that, but Linux has been getting a ton of OpenGL performance enhancements in the last few years despite the move to a newer API (Vulkan), so even if you're not able to use Vulkan due to missing API compatibility, you can still fall back to something that will run really well on Nvidia graphic cards nonetheless (Nvidia usually has great OpenGL performance too). 1080p, low graphics in EQ2, and still 50-60 fps with this old and passively cooled GT 630 + A10-5700 CPU in Cobalt Scar. This computer also has a built-in AMD gpu which is only capable of DX11.0 feature set, but the AMD card was disabled for this test. I might retest with the AMD - and - another laptop with a built-in GT 525M laptop gpu which is even older and less feature rich. Verdict: Linux is not only a viable option for Windows users dropping out of official support, but it has actually been outperforming Windows native performance and stability for quite some time now, and now compatibility seems to be better and far easier to access too. Other ppl using Linux are already seeing an increase to fps when using DirectX11 for EQ2, myself included, see a few pages back (20-30 fps increase), which is still being translated to the faster and more modern Vulkan API on Linux, and the game is becoming increasingly more stable as devs patch and fix outstanding issues. For example, I haven't seen a single crash on my Linux rigs the last 72 hours, and I have tested a bunch of different hardware too, see previous post. Will continue testing in the next few days and will continue to report back my findings. No temp issues during all of my tests, and this is also true for the GT 630 seen above.
Before I forget: I went with OpenGL for this test because that's the worst case scenario within reasonable limitations (GPU not supporting Direct11.1 nor Vulkan 1.3 with EQ2 / Proton 8 and higher), but chances are it'll still work with Vulkan if you use an older Proton version. Wasn't able to test, but will try next week. Either way, you can login and play one way or the other.
I think we can all agree that the frustration everyone is feeling stems from a lack of communication from DB/DP reps, any rednames and/or head of studio. The only communication that is being put out is for revenue - IE the new display stands you can buy on market place It wouldn't hurt them (and may actually help) to put something / anything out on the "EveQuest II requires DirectX 11.1" pop up that shuts down the launcher, that is stopping players from playing the game (for now on test and later on live) For some players they have been playing since launch in 2004 and many fear loosing access in this manner. And its a shame for DB/DP reps, any rednames and/or head of studio to treat long standing devoted players like this. I am of the mind that players should upgrade (i have) but that doesn't mean you treat them with disrespect Wishing you all the best of luck in getting your rigs compliant and in game, would love to see you all make it through the fog this has created.
I don't have any update for 11.0 support atm. The team doing the migration is aware of it and looking for solutions.
You might want to update the criteria for using the Test server, for the time being. Right now, your minimum required specs are incorrect and a source of confusion / angst. Here's what they really should look like: OS: Windows 8.1 64-bit + 2023 "Rollup" Update Processor: Intel Core i7-4771 / AMD Athlon X4 840 or similar CPUs Memory: 4 GB RAM Graphics: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780 Ti / AMD Radeon HD 7970, hardware feature level 11_1 or greater Network: Broadband Internet Connection Hard Drive: 30 GB of free hard drive space
@Bunji - I think its wonderfully amazing of you to have updated the thread with this information. Thank you !!
